FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

Either this is personal attack on individual posters.

Or it is group attack on 'radfems' as nasty people who need fenced off from the reasonable folks.

Either way it is unpleasant.

I agree with what vezzie and Victor have posted. Also thanks to Hester.

I won't be posting in a fenced off naughty corner radical section.

I'm about done with MN altogether right now to be frank.

"banish"? Why banish?

I thought the idea of otbt was that it was a safe space?!

If you want a section on patriarchy/misogyny AND you are sick of trolls, isn't it the ideal solution?

I'm actually disappointed by the rad fem board idea, as it was bloody obvious it would cause a feeling of being kicked out. The same would have happened the other way round. And its just the wrong way to go. It doesn't help anyone and it just causes resentment.

Any new forum needs a lot more thought that just sticking one up and calling it a cafe or patriarchy/misogyny. Cos you are still going to get a lot of the same people and therefore the same problems are likely to be there. If anything I fear it'll worsen the situation with people saying you can't say that here, you aren't welcome here for whatever reason.

You need to actually tackle the bottom line of what the problem is.

@dittany

Could I also point that for all the propaganda mainly from people who toe the sex industry positive line that FWR is scary and dangerous for newbies, there are a whole lot of feminist conversations of all stripes and at all levels of knowledge of feminism happening right now in FWR. E.g. some of todays:

Ok, very quickly, and sorry to not address all your points but the crux is this: we don't believe it's "propaganda" from "a few people who toe the sex industry positive line". Not from where we are sitting and the reports and posts we see and have seen over the last 12 months or so. That's it in a nutshell. Carrying on as we have been isn't going to be a runner.

(I'll be back on later after a long drive up the motorway)

I would doubt totally that a sction called Patriarchy/Misogeny would be any freer. Using dittany's analogy, Racists Bastards would be salivating at the prospect of posting in a place named to cater for their need to be Racist Bastards. No less of a red rag than 'RadFem'.

So it's about shutting down personalities some people don't like? If that's not against the ethos of MN I can't see what is.

If its not about rad-fems, why are there so many posts saying it is?

Active convos is full of FWR threads right now, threads on tennis, Liberal Feminism, a movie, all sorts of things. It's nothing like the place being represented here. This whole thing just feels a bit shabby, it's like watching someone being excluded from the group at school.

Dittany, sorry that Pan's talking about you in the third person again. I think Pan is oblivious to the fact that "racist basterds" wouldn't post in a forum named as such, because they don't identify as such. Likewise. Misogynists don't post under the guise of misogyny, they pretend they're critiquing "misandry" instead.

Fuck it, can we just add a feminism AIBU then we can all pile in, give each other a verbal doing, trolls included and then once that's done, head off to the cafe for some quiet time.

Actually, forget the cafe, can we have a pub instead as I fancy a drink instead of tea and cake and ladylike behaviour.

Work with what we've got instead of what we should have

Hully, it was someone else who started the original thread asking for a safe place by separating off the rad-fems, not Dittany.

I'm not sure there is an ideal solution...but I do think having at least another section for support only would be good.

I would also like to see a less aggressive place for discussion. I think most of the aggression is because it has been tolerated and people have been sucked into it to have their point heard. Also, this has had the result of putting off some posters... How do we resolve this?

oh my mistake, apols.

I am more confused now though.

dittany you want to rename the whole section patriarchy/misogyny?

Do you really, or are you making a point?

"Dittany, sorry that Pan's talking about you in the third person again.."

WTF Frothy???

Have you lost all reading and comprehension skills? I referred directly to dittany because it she had posted the notion, and I posted a different POV - nothing disrespectful at all! And yes Racist Bastards would be loving to cause a ruckus in a place called RAcists Bastards because it is a source of pride.

Surely the answer is simply "more feminism".

I think I suggested a week ago that posters just get on with posting, ignoring those with whom they don't wish to converse. If balance is what most of are after, then that's how you achieve it. There are dozens on these threads, diverting time and energy from the solution that is within your power.

Bloody hell. Talk about personalities NOT the politics. Strewth.

and no, I haven't missed the point. A large number of posters must have missed the exact same point all at the same time as well, then.

I'm sorry I'm asking so many (perhaps stupid) questions, I am trying to get to the nub and understand it all.

dittany - is your point that because it is the feminism section:

1. Trolls/MRAs/F4J should be immediately deleted (as soon as is practicable for MNHQ bearing in mind ther are loads of threads and only a couple of them on duty at any one time).

1. Non-feminist views should not be tolerated. ?

I am asking you because you are the prime motivator of this.

And months I ago, I suggested trialling an "ignore poster" function in FWR. I don't know if it's technically possible.

Or in other words, what, exactly, is it you want?