FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

I'll just shut up and let Vezzie post.

Justine, the debates on this board are wide ranging and in depth. I don't understand how this represents a place where opinions are restricted.

Hully, the problem with being polite is being ignored. I'm ready to jump up and down waving my arms in a minute to get some answers.

"How about calling it "The Feminist Paddling Pool", make it a less intense area; not sure if you remember the general feminist chat thread that used to take place? Keep it along those lines, with the idea it's targeted more towards those who are new to the boards, or don't want to jump in with Rad/Sex Positive/Anarcha/Whatever brand of feminism you like... Keep it for those who don't want the more intense discussions, but still want to discuss feminism"

The term paddling pool implies beginners... How about a "feminist cafe", where things can be more mulling things over than beating each other sticks.

I have to go now so won't be able to watch this beautiful story unfold. I hope there is a good outcome

Someone previously suggested the new forum be called "Feminist Theory", and I'd like to second that. Many of the bunfights happen when posters take theory-based statements/opinions personally, and a forum which emphasised that it's all just "how many angels can dance on a pinhead" stuff might take the heat out of that.

@dittany

Did Mumsnet comment on the idea of a Patriarchy/Misogyny section.

What was the view on that?

If you think Radical Feminist is going to attract trolls...

No Vezzie, I'm just saying that that's what every single complain is about: feeling unwelcome and badly treated.

So clearly the simple and honest solution is that everyone needs to mind their manners like in real life.

As was said on another thread, if atheists and staunch believers can be civilised in their discussions, it's surely not beyond possibility?

Feminist Cafe could work, too, Eclectic.

@VictorGollancz

And yellowraincoat, it is about the rape myths for me. It's bad, really bad, where we're in a situation in which rape myths are posted on a section that is known for its support of rape survivors. The 'anti-feminist' stuff isn't great either, but I would hope feminists of all flavours would unite in the face of rape myths, misogyny and sexism.

Then we can all go back to calling each other 'anti-feminist' (a term that I've done a search for an really doesn't seem to crop up that often)...

Should we perhaps then have a rape survivors topic (could have another name) where it would be completely clear that folks have to tread very sensitively?

Sorry MNHQ - can i add my name to the list of "appalled" at the creation of a Radical Feminist section that none of the radical feminists wanted - and I speak as a wishy washy feminist.

I like the "cafe" idea - for light chat and socialising, non-scary for newbies of all shades.

Great idea Oldlady.... I think Feminist theory could work.

@dittany

I had a proponent of "PARD" telling me she was going to make a point of going after every single post I made because she disagreed so strongly with me.

At that point I left Mumsnet for a few months. Came back under a namechange, and had a nice quietish time. Under my usual name I probably can't post here any more.

So who is unwelcome. Now another person who personally attacked me (in a very nasty way - her post deleted, mine deleted for even mentioning it) has had their suggestion approved and the radical feminists are being sent off the field.

Off which field - it's all one field isn't it?
Dittany, honestly, do you reject the premise that some people (not talking about trolls and f4j here but regular Mumsnetters) feel unwelcome/ scared off/ whatever? If so why are people saying it to us and on the boards? Are they just wrong and in fact they and their views welcomed? Or are they/ their views unwelcome?

What catsrus said.

@catsrus

Sorry MNHQ - can i add my name to the list of "appalled" at the creation of a Radical Feminist section that none of the radical feminists wanted - and I speak as a wishy washy feminist.

I like the "cafe" idea - for light chat and socialising, non-scary for newbies of all shades.

I think you are not alone in thinking it's not a runner. So, what shall we do instead?

I like the idea of a Theory section instead of radical feminism and the Cafe idea is great.

I have long thought a sub section just called support or some other such tittle where women can go for support and talk about relationships, DV , rape etc, would be a good thing.

At least if there was a support section women could ask for advice and get a feminist perspective if that's what they wanted.

@EclecticShock

Great idea Oldlady.... I think Feminist theory could work.

Sounds like a runner? Any other thoughts on this one?

Support, theory and cafe could work well together.

Justine, could I ask again that MNHQ look at the many non-rad-fem, lurkery types like me (though this has all pulled me out of lurking and on to the boards) who have said they don't feel intimidated or excluded and allow our opinions some weight as well?

I say leave FWR as is, new forum called Feminist Cafe or Chat.

Let's have all 3, it's about how you use the board, that's what unites you. For example, I would be sticking to the cafe area...

I like Feminist Cafe