FWR split continued

[RebeccaMumsnet]

We have decided to start a new thread about this as the other thread was near capacity and taking a while to load.

Here is Justine's post from earlier on

We can give a Radical Feminism topic a go if that's what people want and see if it works. Obviously we need to be crystal clear that no one is obliged to post in one particular place and no one should feel excluded from any topic but we could test it out, and see if it helps resolve tensions. We'll do that in the next few days.

There are a couple of other things to think about as well.

First, those who come onto FWR to derail and inflame. We acknowledge that we have been too slow in the past to spot these posters for what they were. We're sorry about that and hope we're a lot quicker at dealing with them now. We're all for opinions but we do draw the line at posters whose only obvious intent is to goad.

And secondly, this idea that FWR can be an unwelcoming place to those who aren't following the 'party line'. Judging by posts on recent threads and by our inbox this is a view of a significant number of Mumsnetters and obviously that's not a healthy situation. Mumsnet is a place for discussion and for diverse opinion and it's the exchange of ideas and tolerance of differing opinions that makes it the board it is.

We do hope threads like this help to clear the air a bit and remind everyone that, whatever the differences of opinion, the FWR board will only ever be the stimulating, thought-provoking, enriching place we'd all like it to be if people feel that they can express themselves without being jumped on.

Please do continue to let us know your thoughts.

I like MissMavis's three -

Cafe (never say no to a )
Support
Theory and Activism

Perfect ! Genius Mavis

polite and reasonable numpty-calling

"I am truly sorry to have to classify you so, but I believe you to be a numpty on this matter. Please believe that I mean this not in a personal way, but on this matter our political beliefs vary. Of course I whole-heartedly accept your right to have this opinion."

Thanks yellow !

that is fab yellow

fwiw, I'd like an Equalists topic, as someone suggested way up ^. (sorry, too long a thread to scroll back up but you know who you are..!). The tactics and experience of oppression are differing to particular groups - but it would be a really welcome addition to understand better learning needs/race/sex/trans/mental health/ageism/class which affects posters directly, or for their loved ones.

It wouldn't be a 'competition' with the F/WR section at all, but a complement to it.

Pan, I really like the idea of an equalists topic, I think I would spend more time there tbh.

I think we still have a "World Cup 2010" topic........... Equalists topic could replace it without too much Tech bother...

There should be a place to discuss discrimination in general, whether it be disability, race, misogyny or any other. I do feel that's what's missing. Mn is supposed to be for parents by parents and parents come in many different forms.

Pan, you're discriminating against those of us who enjoyed the World Cup 2010.

Ah, 2010. Those were the days.

good ES! - it would, for example not be mithering folks on the SN threads to get a better grip/understanding as to why some people don't 'conform' to expectations when they 'look' as if they should have the capacity to.

I would also like to see mumsnet renamed to be more in line with the strap line...but that's a different discussion.

Good idea about merging theory and activism; the current activism section is rather underused (and I always forget to look at it).

Could also bring the book club threads within the Cafe, so we would have the same number of boards as now?

no yellow, it was horrid!

If we have a feminism cafe I will just sit there all day watching the world go by .....

It was an education to know that so many posters had NOT heard of the Equalities Act,and how it brings responsibilities to individuals and Public Sector organisations and funding agents. I'd spend time there, post what I know and read stuff from others. It's also directly relevant to the whole questions asked re the European Human Rights Legislation that some politicos want to rescind.

What is PARN please?

Must read the paddling pool thread.

Blimey this has moved on.

I know I said this a few pages back but I think the idea of splitting the FWR board is a bad idea. It seems like the majority don't want it and it has been done quite rapidly in a way that can only enflame bad feeling.

I really don't see the point. People can start different flavours of thread i.e. just about theory, cafe type chit-chat threads, personal support threads, running aggro threads (which actually does seem to have had a good impact on the rest of the board, but probably not a long term solution). I don't think each one need a segregated board.

I don't think it is something that can be solved by heavy handed moderation. But I do think MNHQ is right to notice that something ain't working here (...don't know what I would do in their position though, glad its not my job!)

It is a culture thing, and many people of all different pursuasions (but mainly all defining themselves as feminists) have said there is something not working and maybe we can collectively do better in the way we treat each other as human beings.

As Ayerobot has said -Ideas, not people....More feminism, please, not more boards.

I would agree with that.

OliviaMNHQ I support the idea of 3 threads

Cafe
Support
Theory & Activism

I reckon a new feminist would spend a few months in the Cafe, then start dabbling in Theory, spending more and more time there as her knowledge and confidence grew, able to find support on the Support thread should she need it.

Perfect.

Does anyone thing that a bid for an "Equalism" topic would be relevant to MN, and satisfy a need? IT would draw support and feedback from SN topic, Employment topic, F/WR topic, being a parent, bullying, elderly parents, lesbian/gay threads and mostly most things!

I think having a 'Radical Feminism' section is a bad idea.

I post in the Feminist section. I have never felt threatened by the 'Radicals', and credit MN with opening my eyes to a lot of issues. Without MN's Feminist section I would not have attended my first feminist conference last year.

please can we NOT have something called cafė, it sounds like the Other Place with their coffee lounge/house

oh that was (supposed to be) an acute accent over the e of cafe

I have semi-lurked/occasionally posted in FWR. I haven't found it an intimidating space and I've been glad that radical feminist posters have been there. I have learned a lot from them and have realised that my views on many issues are a lot closer to radical feminism than I thought.

I don't really understand what a Radical Feminism section is supposed to do other than to corral a certain group of posters. What are they supposed to do there? Are they not supposed to post on the main board? Am I supposed to go there?

I think the problem is that we are talking about names of boards rather than what their function is. It seems to me that FWR has been doing several things. It has been hosting discussions about what feminism is (and even whether we need feminism) and whether particular issues are feminist issues. It has been hosting analysis of specific current events/articles etc from a feminist perspective. It has also been hosting education for people new to feminism or who are unfamiliar with different schools of feminism.

There is another forum I post on which has a board called 'Hell' which is specifically for people to take their personal flamewars to so they don't take over the main boards. Now, I am NOT advocating a board dedicated to flamewars because I don't think that's appropriate for MN. But how about:

1. having a board called 'Feminist analysis' which is dedicated to the analysis of patriarchy/misogyny from a feminist perspective function, with a culture that is broadly feminist (say, as a basic minimum rape myths, derailers and trolls are not tolerated). It's possible this could also be a place for feminist support. If there is a clash between opposing schools of thought on a thread here they can be politely asked to start a thread to hash it out in:

2. another board 'What is Feminism?' (terrible name, if anyone can come up with anything better then feel free). This could be a space to have PARD about e.g. whether porn should be a feminist issue, threads of the kind 'Why do Radical Feminists ... ', 'Why do Liberal Feminists ... ' etc. This could host a rolling paddling pool thread and discussions about feminism itself.

Apologies if I have repeated anything said above or cross posted - it took a while to think about all of this.

Fairphyllis that is a very well thought out and well-written post.

Mainly marking place on way up M1.

Hate the idea of a radfems separation. I lurk here a LOT and have learnt loads.