Anti-misogyny classes - have schools lost trust in boys, what went wrong

[Renati]

Why do I feel like the default expectation from boys in schools is that they are a threat so that we need to have these classes in schools.

What went wrong?

We all know and can feel what boys need and want in life to be good brothers, fathers, husbands and people in the community and somehow...instead of reinforcing these things in schools they are going off on a tangent based on what? The manosphere? Seriously? How distracted can an entire government get.

Is the only way out of this backwards caveman style teaching is to homeschool? Boys in school are not given the space to express themselves without first being told the reason the feel the way they feel is...innately probably because they are a person who needs correcting.

This doesn't just affect men, if you provide a society where men grow up resentful of the conditions and expectations set around them, you will have men more resentful for women....and guess what...this does encourage boys to not the become the brothers, fathers and husbands they could be because this is only possible if society creates a safe space for boys to feel secure and validated for their feeling growing up.

No. Misogyny is a threat - online and in real life - and it’s everyone’s duty to recognise it and call it out.

What exactly do you think these ‘conditions and expectations’ are? Would you be happy if a young man in your life ‘expressed himself’ by being abusive towards women and girls?

Not everyone has male role models in their lives. Not all of these role models are good. Not everyone grew up with respect. If you think lads cannot sit engage in a discussion around this topic without feeling ‘resentment’ towards women who don’t want to be at risk of assault / abuse / coercion then we have an even bigger issue.

I had an argument with my sister where she was telling me I should tell my teenage son to cross the street if he is walking behind a woman. I refused as I wasn't going to put it in my son's head that he is seen as a potential threat and should act accordingly. She started going on about male violence and rape etc and I said it's not all men and we can't treat them all like this and she went mental at me

You ask ‘what went wrong’ like things were ever ‘right’! Misogyny and patriarchy have been causing girls and women problems for centuries, and never worse than recent times.

I would imagine any such classes will actually discuss how to express feelings in a healthy way as part of their curriculum.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what teachers are actually saying to boys about this. I think it is completely reasonable that all children receive an education about misogyny (and racism, homophobia etc). A good teacher will always teach these topics sensitively without putting blame on children. They will be very aware of the importance of sharing good male role models with boys as well, it’s not about telling boys that all men are bad or anything like that.

At Dds school there is a minority of boys who routinely make disgusting degrading and misogynistic comments to the girls so they feel threatened. What do you suggest is done about that?

Also sorry to say some mothers have a “not my Callum / Oliver” mentality. Those
motjers would be horrified to hear from their sons female peers what they are really like. Most of the boys are lovely but many are not.

Dd had this when she was waitressing at an event a woman whose son was in dds year twittering on that she bet all the girls loved him as he played rugby etc. Err no he’s a misogynistic dickhead but they couldn’t tell her that.

I wish you could hear the stuff teen boys are coming out with because of all this manosphere stuff.

It is genuinely terrifying.

It's not all boys/men, but it is enough of them that it needs to be tackled somehow.

My DD has been shocked at the level of open misogyny she has heard since starting six form. Having previously been an all girls school the arrival of boys has really shocked her. On two occasions the appalling language used by some of the boys in her class have resulted in the school having to address the situation separately and email parents to explain their plan.
She hasn’t seen one positive thing about the boys coming into school. I should point out she has a lot of boys and men in her life so she has lots of positive male interactions.

I think you are wrong.
Not in a busy street obviously but in the evening in an empty one then crossing would be the considerate thing to do.

..........

Not All Men, yes, but TOO MANY MEN, are still a threat or at best don't call out poor behaviour.

The recent barging trend.
The fact that women runners report so much random abuse/harassment.
Andrew Tate.
Choking in sex being normalised though porn.
Girls in school being subjected to misogynistic comments.
Etc

The good parents need to teach their boys not only to be respectful of girls but also to call out poor behaviour of other boys.

Saying 'not my boy' is not enough.

You have no idea how endemic this misogyny is. At my school, we were informed by SLT that there had been so many reports of male students making animal noises to female teachers that they were having to have discussions of where to place it on the behaviour management scale. My daughters tell me that they do not even bother reporting the sexist comments they receive daily, because they are so constant.

Also, I’ve been teaching for 20 years. There has always been sexism, but the scale of it is new and the trend is upwards.

Is the only way out of this backwards caveman style teaching is to homeschool?
It's the complete opposite of backwards caveman style teaching

Men who do that are kind and thoughtful. Sounds like you're happy for women to feel intimidated

Exactly the same scenario here. Many of the boys are genuinely nice lads but there is a minority group lauded by the school because they do a particular sport and are sponsored 🙄 some of whom are appalling.

Dd many other girls and many of the decent boys have given statements about this groups behaviour. The head of sixth form ended up in tears hearing what was being routinely said. Consequences? Zero.

At my son’s all boys school, students who make animal and porn noises at female teachers get 1 warning, which includes a Saturday detention and a family meeting with the principal, then if they do it again they are expelled.

This is how it should be done but isn’t done at most schools. Government schools can’t do this and most private schools won’t.

my son’s school is a low fee private school and the behaviour management is 1 of a 1000 reasons I am glad to pay the fees.

Anecdotally I think all boys state schools are most on it. Dd joined a boys school in the 6th form and is impressed by the younger boys generally they are polite as are most of the 6th form lads except some of the rugby professional group. I know several of the female teachers at the boys school they are fond of the boys. No way would animal noises to female teachers be tolerated.

Private schools can have their hands tied as they want to keep the other fee paying parents happy. A friend found this out the hard way.

Of course there are countless things you call can call out, including stealing, lying etc...but to treat it as an isolated topic with so much emphasis via a specific course makes boys feel like this is the default feeling towards them. It will only backfire.

Of course, this type of thinking will bring the UK into a dark ages period. Wake up people!

All the decent men in my life cross the street. Why would you not?
I have told my lovely but over 6 foot boys to cross. I always cross too when walking behind a solo woman at night. Its an easy thing to do to potentially make someone feel slightly less worried.

It's a race to the bottom towards men and woman completely alienating each other unfortunately. Worse than cavemen to be honest.

Decent men do cross the road to avoid walking behind a lone woman.
OP I recommend you read ‘working with boys’.Here . Boys biggest fear is often being laughed at and the need to be seen as ‘cool’ is powerful, once a pattern of behaviour is set in a cohort it is hard to change - positive role models and teaching need to start when they are very young. I do think it’s important that schools frame the teaching in the context of ‘here is the positive way to behave’ - this is what good men do. Rather than ‘here is the wrong way don’t do it.’ We never use the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ for example. There is only so much that schools can do unfortunately, most of the horrible attitudes come from home or are copied from fathers / older brothers / mothers who believe their DC is some sort of prince. Sadly they are more prince andrew than prince edward.

I agree with your sister. By telling him to cross the street, you’re not telling him he IS a threat, you’re telling him he could be seen as one through no fault of his own, and it’s a gentlemanly thing to do.

It's absolutely pointless and encourages a race to the bottom of men and woman alienating each other. It will only backfire.

Teach boys what they should be doing, not what they shouldn't.

The fact the manosphere became a concept in the first place was because male energy was labeled as threatening and these influencers caught onto that and ran with it and provided a safe space for boys by saying their feelings are validated.
We need to claim it back by providing a safe and understanding ideas and concepts around boys. Not by teaching rubbish ideas.