Anti-misogyny classes - have schools lost trust in boys, what went wrong

[Renati]

Why do I feel like the default expectation from boys in schools is that they are a threat so that we need to have these classes in schools.

What went wrong?

We all know and can feel what boys need and want in life to be good brothers, fathers, husbands and people in the community and somehow...instead of reinforcing these things in schools they are going off on a tangent based on what? The manosphere? Seriously? How distracted can an entire government get.

Is the only way out of this backwards caveman style teaching is to homeschool? Boys in school are not given the space to express themselves without first being told the reason the feel the way they feel is...innately probably because they are a person who needs correcting.

This doesn't just affect men, if you provide a society where men grow up resentful of the conditions and expectations set around them, you will have men more resentful for women....and guess what...this does encourage boys to not the become the brothers, fathers and husbands they could be because this is only possible if society creates a safe space for boys to feel secure and validated for their feeling growing up.

Yes unfortunately it is really low in some other countries. You would be absolutely blown away.

Anti misogyny doesn't mean anti boy. It means anti degrading attitudes to women no matter which sex the attitude comes from.

Hmm. I'm with you in the lack of good male role models. But a lot of that is down to family break up but that still doesn't need to mean a dad is absent. I divorced my DS dad and instead of one male role model now he has two, my partner and his Dad as we share custody. But that's not always the reality of it all and what disturbs me from your post is that the parent who sticks around more often, the mother and the gender who is more likely to go into teaching, i.e. women, are seen as the problem.

What about men stepping up? In society and entering teaching and caring professions? Isn't that more the solution than calling the problem the "feminisation of teaching".

If the style of teaching is overwhelmingly letting boys down, then let's do something about that more widely. But there are still plenty of boys who thrive.

It's astonishing that people wring their hands about how much representation there is of women in classrooms yet see nothing wrong with women entering the workplace overwhelmingly being managed by men.

Look, I don't disagree it male role modelling is a problem, but I do disagree that misogyny shouldn't then be taught as a result. Because that's just saying "let's accept the status quo" because nothing else is happening to address this.

Are they not calling it that at your child's school? The aim is the same regardless surely unless anyone particularly likes misogyny?

I’m a big supporter of single sex schools. Especially now sadly. We bought a house in the catchment area of an excellent girls state school. Best decision we ever made. Our two girls had none of this until dd2 went to mixed 6th form.

I think girls who’ve been in a single sex environment are the ones who are more shocked when they are educated with boys. It was Dd and her friends who went to the local girls private school that challenged the misogynistic boys. The girls from the mixed sex schools were resigned to it which broke my heart.

Call a spade a spade! Why would we pretend this shit isn't real?? It is real. It exists. My son learns about racism in school - they don't call it 'meanness' they call it racism and kids, even white kids, are expected to be robust enough to handle it! Fuck all this cancel culture nonsense. Teach boys what misogyny is and call it by it's name

But surely we can all agree that misogyny is indeed bad? So being anti it is okay? I am still failing to see the problem here.

I think this is the issue...as a counterintuitive tool against these influencers they will view it as anti boy. It's labelled wrong and actually dangerous for us to do so.

Then it's not helpful to sidestep the term. It is helpful to challenge it head on and challenge the misinformation.

Recognising BS online is a key skill for all kids (and adults). This is helpful in that too.

Look at OPs recent comments….
there’s a low bar across the world and basically we’re lucky we’ve got is a good as we have….. famous for how lucky we’ve got it apparently…..
I don’t even have the words.

But it IS misogyny. Why aren’t we allowed to name it, exactly? It’s not naming misogyny that causes misogyny. You sound like a violent man - I’m angry because YOU MADE ME ANGRY!

I agree with your sister. Rather than you thinking this teaches your son he is a threat, why not explain that it doesn’t harm him to cross the road and that it might make her feel safer and that this is what men who want to protect women should do? There is no negative in that. The facts are, women are raped and murdered by men.

Op, I think you are a man. Because no, the UK is in no way “famous” for being non judgemental towards women. How can you possibly think it is?

Same... Violence prevention and respect is all behaviour that supports an anti-misogynistic society. I don't think anything weird and damaging is being covered by the sound of it

I’m so sorry that reply was for the poster above you.

It's the same argument white Americans use to try and cancel the teaching of racism in America. It's dangerous. 'This subject has the potential to make my child feel uncomfortable so I demand you don't teach it'

As a man, I agree with your sister. If it is deserted, particularly if it is dark, I will cross the street rather than walk behind a woman if that is an option. No, it isn't all men, but it is understandable that a lone woman may feel threatened if she is being followed by a man.

I don't understand the "treat them all like this" comment. Saying I should cross the street in this situation does not mean I am a threat to women. It says that some women may think I am a threat - understandably considering the level of male violence against women and the rate at which it is increasing.

As a mum of boys I’m genuinely trying to understand what you are saying here and failing. What do you mean by ‘boy energy’ and ‘validate their feelings’?

When you say ‘we should be focusing on claiming back safe spaces for boys, and validation for boys’ what do you mean? What spaces are unsafe for boys? What validation do they need?

c. 70,000 rapes are reported every year in the UK. And that's just those reported. 99% of those cases reported do not lead to conviction.

There has been a 37% increase in VAWG between 2018 and 2022.

It's estimated 1 in 4 British women have experienced rape or sexual assault after the age of 16.

Yeah. Living in the UK is peachy as a woman. 🙄

My daughter plays (girls) football and the team all have to get reminded from time to time not to be aggressive in play or mouth off to the ref. My daughter doesn't do that and probably wouldn't but it doesn't mean she doesn't need told or the team are anti football or anti girl or something
... It feels like this is the same?

You can name it, the topic was specifically regarding putting a course in schools and calling it this. Apparently the course is teaching kids how to be respectful - then call it that! It's backwards labelling. Of course the word and will and will always remain in the dictionary - this is not the issue.

Did you not know what's being covered before you started this thread?

I don’t disagree with you totally, Renato. The message will be heard louder, sadly, if it comes from men and male students. A pp spoke about her “alpha” male son cutting off a friend who assaulted a girl. I’ve spoken about how the sportiest kid in the year has a massive impact on that year group and how the PE department deal with behaviour issues vs jock culture is massively important. But you’re blaming bad male behaviour on the reaction to it, and that’s just bullshit. Some methods of dealing with misogyny may be better than others, but the behaviour is not caused by the attempts to deal with it.

Yes, if anything society validates men again and again, and invalidates women. Hence a lot of people's first thought (including women's) when a woman makes a complaint against a man is 'What has she got against this guy?' not 'That sounds awful'

That said, I think it is hard for boys who have not yet got to experience any of the benefits of patriarchy (the being listened to, taken seriously, believed, being seen as a 'leader', having your credentials accepted etc) while being treated in schools as underachievers, trouble etc compared to the girls. This is why they are so vulnerable to the manosphere - in their context, they probably do perceive girls as being treated better by authority. And there is something to rebalance there, though I'm not sure how. It shouldn't be by treating girls worse, or by validating harmful behaviours from boys and expecting girls to put up with it 'because boys are like that and you have to accept it'

Thing is when boys were outperforming girls in schools (which wasn't that long ago in the big scheme of things) misogyny was still rife in adulthood. So this isn't new just because girls have caught up and in many cases overtaken academically.