Grammar schooling and the local community

[Cantdohair]

My son is just entering Yr 6 at primary school. We live in a large village in a relatively affluent area with both a primary and secondary school in walking distance.

A big part of the reason we moved here was to be part of a community and so far that has very much been the case. My son has really lucked out with his year group and they are a really strong group of friends who he could theoretically stay with through secondary school. They could all walk in together etc....it all looked very idyllic in my head! (Although I do recognise friendships change a lot at secondary level and they make new friends etc).

Unfortunately I underestimated the grammar school impact. It varies year to year but it looks as though all of his close friends bar one will sitting their 11+. They have all been tutored for some time, are bright, and stand a very good chance of passing. My son is aware of this but is not sitting it himself - this was a joint decision and we don't feel grammar school is right for him. I must admit though, I had underestimated how many of his friends would be sitting it. With the exam in a few weeks we are at peak 11+ fervour amongst parents and peers and it is really starting to bother me.

There is just so much snobbery about it and I just feel really sad that my son will miss out on the secondary school experience I thought he would have within the village that we live. The secondary school in the village is a good school, the results aren't amazing but I suspect this is more the grammar impact rather than the teaching and it has a lovely feel and a great pastoral side. I know its idealistic but it would just be so nice if they could all just go to the same school. I'm sure my son will be fine - he is far less bothered than me (eye roll) - I just feel sad about the whole system and what feels like a lack of loyalty to each other and the community. I'm not sure what I'm looking for really - just some reassurance that I am not crazy for feeling this way!

You feel how you feel, but yep you are being a bit bonkers when you talk of lack of loyalty to each other. Their loyalty is to their kids as it should be, and the grammar is presumably part of the wider community.

You can disagree with the grammar system of course, but there is an alternative view that says it’s hard for comprehensives to do a great job with such a wide range of kids, that grammars do a good job of stretching bright kids, and (when they were more widespread than they are now) aid social mobility.

I know your core issue isn’t whether or not grammars are a good thing, I’m just pointing out why the other parents aren’t being unreasonable to have chosen it.

You were also naive to choose a middle class area in a grammar catchment and not know most parents would chose that option.

All of this is not to say your feelings are invalid, but it is unreasonable to place blame on other people that things are not going to play out as you hoped. With kindness, the world doesn’t revolve around you.

On the bright side, your son sounds well adjusted and I am sure he’ll make friends quickly and it will all work out fine, so try not to worry too much.

I presume they have all moved there and it’s been the plan since pregnancy?

I live in a similar place and it’s one of the reasons why the house prices tend to stabilise.

YABVU to talk about bypassing your best educational opportunities out of loyalty to a primary school friend! totally unrealistic - your sone will have other friends by the time he has been in his new school a few weeks.

Think back to your own best educational or career opportunity, think back to a random primary school friend. Would it have been remotely reasonable to bypass one for the chance to walk to school together with the other? No of course not. chances are you are not in touch now anyway, and if you are, the friendship would have survived walking to school together or not

I wonder how much this is because he is growing up. You have an incredibly idealistic notion of how it was going to be. Your son is fine with it and will make new friends.

DD and her group of 5 friends went to 4 different schools - all have made good new friends and yet they are still as close as before. She tells me they all have a sounding board for things that happen in their respective schools who are neutral and can listen.

DS two best friends will go to one of the local schools - we will decide for DS based on what is best for him and nothing else. Yes his best friend probably could benefit a lot from him being there and that may be our choice but ultimately it will be guided by what is the right choice for him.

loyalty should not be a factor in this at all - making such an important decision based on that is rash

I think it’s a bit bonkers to talk about a lack of loyalty! My oldest goes to a grammar, my youngest goes to the local comprehensive. They both walk to school. Neither has particularly stayed friends with the friends they had at primary school. Any friendships that have lingered have done so because I am friends with the parents, they will interact when we all meet up but don’t hang out together in school.

I live in a similarly well served village and my daughter is taking the 11+. The walking distance comp is just lovely but the facilities and opportunities at the grammar are better. Having said that I think she would love the non selective a lot.
other friends’ kids take the eleven plus because they want their kids to go to school away from their primary school bullies or because it’s convenient for their other school drop offs. So whilst there is undoubtedly some instances of snobbery, there are many reasons people choose a certain school.
the
effect on the community and breaking with the friendship groups is one of the big downsides of the grammar system.

Just do the right thing for your dc and don't let others' decisions affect you. I'm sure your ds will have a group to walk to school with.

YABU to expect people to send their dc to a so so school in service of the wider community. Are you not worried about your own child's prospects? I get not pushing for grammar if he's not academic but are there no better (private if you can afford it) options?

>The walking distance comp is just lovely but the facilities and opportunities at the grammar are better

How exactly opportunities at grammar are better? Are you aware that the government pays for a child in grammar less money than in state comprehensive? Grammar schools, if anything, are seriously underfunded. And the only reason why the gov did not close them is that they save money by paying less. https://fullfact.org/education/are-grammar-schools-facing-crisis-funding/
The teaching in grammar is not better than in other schools or sometimes even worse because it is easy to teach self-motivated kids. Several grammars were recently downgraded because of teaching level.

>he secondary school in the village is a good school, the results aren't amazing

what is the % of 5+ and 7+ grades at GCSE and what is the Progress8, Attainment 8?

I said nothing about teaching. The opportunities are better for our situation simply because the school has amazing facilities for my child’s particular passion and also offers that subject up to A level and has a long list of associated extra curricular activities.

But they probably won't all get in/pass the 11+.

What loyalty? Parents should make educational choices that are best for their children/family - not the wider community or their friends or their friends' children. I'm sorry your son may lose his circle of friends but there's always after school/the weekends/holidays where he can see them.

And as someone mentioned above, not all of them may get in anyway. Especially if it's the only Grammar in the area.

Most grammar schools we visited had worse facilities and older classroom than the comprehensive schools or new academics in the same area. The funding gap play a part.

Actually lots of schools of all kinds are facing funding issues, many of them linked to government policies.

Yes, elkiedee but grammar school get much less per head, per pupil than comprehensive.

I hope it works out ok for him. Probably statistically speaking all his mates won’t get in at the grammar school.

I’m constantly amazed that I’m over 60 and grammar schools where I grew up became comprehensive in my era … and yet they still exist in places all over the country nearly 5 decades later

Exactly this.

Even if they all went to the same school they wouldn't necessarily remain close friends.

DD went to the same school as a lot of others from her primary school but by the end of year 8 she had a completely different group of friends. She wouldn't know what to talk to her primary friends about now.

Friendships change so much at secondary school. I honestly think the idyllic vision you had involving your son’s primary school friends all walking to school together was exactly that - just a vision.

Loyalty? Would you have accused other parents of being disloyal if they’d moved away, or chosen a different comprehensive? Or gone private?

It's a bit unrealistic to move to a grammar school area and not think most people are going to give their children the opportunity to sit the 11+

YABU. Your ds will make new friends, and it's unlikely that all of his friends will get into grammar school anyway. When I went, there were 100 applicants for each place.

You've chosen the school and the environment you think suits your ds best, so just enjoy the lack of pressure and your son's opportunities to make new friends.

It isn't disloyalty or snobbery on the part of his friends or their parents. Each parent does what they perceive to be the best they can for their child. You can't blame them for that.

DD (Y13, age 17) went to the village primary and her & her close friends all went to diffferent grammars! They still see each other in the holidays and friendship is as strong as ever. Added to that they all have other friendship circles at their grammars .

They will all no doubt also have friendship circles at their unis, work etc. Life moves on and friendships deepen over time without the need to be with each other day in, day out.

DD is talking about a gap year travelling with one of the primary friends after uni.

Wow. OK. I mean I did say I realise my thoughts were unrealistic. I don't actually expect people to make educational decisions based on their children's friendships at 10 years old. I'm just sad that the system will result in the separation of a really nice bunch of friends. Of course they can still see each other after school and maintain the friendships if they want to.

I'm just yearning for a simpler, less competitive life where my son can walk to his local secondary school with the other boys in the village.

The grammar issue is particularly pronounced for him because there are a lot of smart boys in the year group. It's not always so significant.

Anyway I'm standing down as I'm not sure I'm doing a very good job of getting my point across!

…feels like a lack of loyalty to each other and the community.

Yes. You were very naive. People will do what’s best for their children, as I’m sure you will do too.

First of all not all of your son’s friends will get in (just not statistically possible!) and secondly friendship groups change massively in secondary school. My DS was dead set on being in the same tutor as his primary school “gang” of mates. Was successful in achieving this but by the Easter Holidays of year 7 he was hardly ever hanging out with them - instead has made new friends from random primary schools who ended up at his secondary school.

Also secondary school is very unlike primary school. You barely get to know any teachers or parents! So the lovely cosy primary school community sort of fades away anyway.