"We don't want you to sit with us"

[challengerequired]

Is this ever an ok thing to say? When the student in question is just sitting quietly?
Head of Year thinks it's okay - "you can't force people to be friends"

@Cowbells that's what I think but looks like that's the minority view

I also think it's a myth that
there's a tribe for everyone

Grace and good manners or boundary trampling?

Daily interaction in your free time with someone you don’t like would be the latter for me. Once in a while might be grace and good manners.

Either way, the OP’s child isn’t benefitting by making solid friendships elsewhere so should be redirected to students ARE likely to make friends with.

It’s rude. And given that the student has SEN then it’s also cruel. I suspect if the students specific needs and abilities were discussed openly then there would be more acceptance. There are a couple of students at our (very small) school whose parents have sent a PowerPoint to the other parents explaining what is and isn’t helpful which worked really well.

Unfortunately there is a difference between 'encouraging' and 'forcing'.

I really do feel for the DS, but ultimately by the time it gets to secondary you can't insist kids welcome someone. Again, occasionally to be kind is one thing, but if it is every/most days then I do think the OP & school need to find a different solution.

There isn't a 'tribe' for everyone, but there should be at least one other person in the whole year/school the DS can get on with if they could be found.

If the OP would open up more, we might be able to explore different options.

They sound bludy awful anyway. By year 9 it’s a poor doo of a 14 year old has to be rude to another child, especially one with SEN.

All that ‘inclusive’ ‘be kind’ stuff is clearly being missed.

Needlessly being horrid and one day they may be the one with a child with SEN and they’ll realise how unnecessary mean they were.

@Arbadacarba

It's not really anything to do with being friends. Sitting with someone isn't a declaration of friendship. It's a rude thing to say in my opinion.

First response said what I thought

It sounds like he wants to sit with the same group of kids each day, because he likes them and wants to be their friends, whereas they actively don't want to be friends with him? It doesn't matter whether he wants to be friendly just in school, or in school and out of school, they don't reciprocate his feelings.

If he was occasionally sitting at their table because there really were very limited seats and he had to sit somewhere, they should tolerate this with a lot more kindness. However, if he's repeatedly trying to break into a group that doesn't want him, I can see why one of them has finally spoken up and explained very bluntly that they don't want him to do this.

I would encourage him to sit somewhere else - being constantly rejected by the same group of people can't be good for his self-esteem. Can he try to sit with different people each day? If it's an occasional thing rather than an everyday thing, kids are more likely to be tolerant, even if they don't have anything in common.

Has your son got an EHCP ,op?
If so lunchtime could be covered in it ,the social interactions at break need just as much careful handling as in lessons ,contact the school and ask for a meeting.
If not ,got EHCP ,is he on the special needs register? Again ,lunchtime is a tricky time and the school needs to offer some support.

So the student being rejected has special needs and struggles socially. Has no other demands other than to be allowed to sit in the vicinity of this particular group.

The school is correct, they can’t force this situation on any of the kids.

The kids are being arses and they shouldn’t be rude or mean, but it isn’t up to the school to insist they do something they aren’t comfortable with. If you were in a restaurant and someone came up and insisted they sat their child with SN at your table because that’s all they wanted, you’d feel it awkward. Even if you agreed as a one off, you’d not want it every time you ate there.

I’d be hurt if this were my child, but equally I’ve made it clear to the school that the other kids are not my child’s carer.

Also ,the
Tribe for everyone ,is utter bollocks 4 of us in our family with autism ,definitely no tribe been found yet ,and I’m nearly 50

I can imagine that your child’s feelings are hurt and as a parent your “mama bear” mode has kicked in.

However, I do think that there isn’t much a school can do especially at secondary level. The head of year can tell the students not to be unkind but unlike primary, they’re not there to police it. The best thing you can do is to advise your child to sit elsewhere and make friends with children who will accept them. Things could get nasty and the other children could become sneaky about and make other unkind remarks. The Head of year is right in that she can’t force them to be friends. What would you expect the head of year to actually do out of interest Op?

Depends how often it is. Once in a while, I feel the group should suck it up and be polite. If it's every day, then while they could (and should) have phrased it more politely, their sentiment seems fair enough.

It is not ok to be horrid to someone who has simply sat beside your group of friends, while not being one. Nor is it ok to repeatedly sit with a group of people who don't want your company, wanting to join in. All depends on frequency and if there is a reasonable alternative place to sit anyway.

Honestly as harsh as it is I’d rather someone said outright they don’t want me near them or do be their friends rather than sit obvious to their face pulling, botching behind my back; I find pretending to be someone’s friend and openly discussing behind their back how they don’t like them is more bully than just being told “no thanks, you’re not my kind of person”

Not a nice situation but the better of a bad one.

I hope you DS finds some people who appreciate him soon.

I'd try asking the school a different question.

"Are all pupils allowed to decide who sits in empty seats in the cafeteria or just a select few?"

I would be extremely disappointed if any of my DC chose to exclude someone in such a rude and unkind way.

Is there a specific reason why DS wants to sit there OP? Does he particularly like the group of students? Is it because of where they sit?

I just wonder about the part that he just sits quietly. Does he want to listen to them? Or does he just want to sit quietly in the area of the canteen that they happen to park themselves in every lunchtime?

I agree with Newgirls and lastcall that having other spaces and lunch activities could be helpful. Is there a way the school could help facilitate this by encouraging other options for him?

My DD1 had a hard time when they were stuck in their form bubbles as a few of her peers have taken issue loudly with her mixed accent. Now that the LRC is open again, she's been using that at lunch as a space to wind down from the noise as she puts it while DD2 has been staying back in one of the classroom with a few people for card games.

I agree with encouraging young people to not be cliquely and to open to expanding their social circles and kindness, but I also think it's okay to say no at times and, at least from my experience, it can be crueler to be the odd one who is only there because the people are being 'kind'. The pity tagalong is not a nice place to be.

So where are the ‘creepy’ children meant to sit . Is there meant to be a ‘creepy’ children’s table . Maybe you would prefer them to be in a different room?

These other teenagers have every other hour of the day to be alone with their superior buddies . 30mins being friendly and inclusive is surely not the end of the world .

In my day you had table places at school, you sat where you were told and you made conversation with the person next to them whether you liked them or not.

@itsgettingwierd

I'd try asking the school a different question.

"Are all pupils allowed to decide who sits in empty seats in the cafeteria or just a select few?"

Great question.

These teenagers have every other hour of the day to be alone with their superior friends

Well actually they dont, do they? At school they get break time and lunchtime , the rest of the time they are in class and are told who to sit and work with.

I just asked my ds what he thinks of this. He said it wasnt kind to let someone think they were your friend when they really weren't "because that doesnt help anyone". He also said that if it wasnt someone he found particularly annoying he wouldnt mind sharing a lunch table with them and he didnt think his friends would either. He also said he didnt think the school should be trying to force people to sit together at lunch.

Is it possible he has been harassing them, not taking their hints so they have had to be blunt?

You don't know the whole story. His his only demand is to sit near this particular group? It is borderline stalking and not okay. From this it sounds like an issue that has been going on for a while.

@Tristatearea

Grace and good manners or boundary trampling?

Daily interaction in your free time with someone you don’t like would be the latter for me. Once in a while might be grace and good manners.

Either way, the OP’s child isn’t benefitting by making solid friendships elsewhere so should be redirected to students ARE likely to make friends with.

boundary trampling? Having to be civil to someone with SEN in a cafeteria for a few minutes at lunchtime? What sort of world do we live in where tolerance is seen as boundary trampling. Do we really want to teach our children to be precious and callous and call it healthy boundary setting?

When I was a teen I became involved in a club which had zero tolerance of cliques. It attracted the coolest kids in school but also a host of social misfits. We all bonded. We had the best times, the best parties. We all went to gigs together, went camping together, hung out at each others houses and all desire to be cool or cliquey just vanished because we had so much fun and a huge, rambling crowd of friends.

We learned to be tolerant and accepting, and we got to know and befriend people who were very different from us mentally, socially, academically. I wish every teenager could have that experience. It was the best thing that ever happened to me in childhood. Encouraging our teens to be closed minded is not a good thing.

I do dislike the phrase "find your tribe", it's compulsory schooling where many will not find like minded companions.
If it's anything like our local secondary there aren't enough seats to go round anyway.
The schools answer does show the hypocrisy of any "be kind" mantra. They could at least help kids find someone to sit with.

Cowbells I attended a small sixth form that ended up well bonded like that. There just weren't enough cool kids to firm a clique!