"We don't want you to sit with us"

[challengerequired]

Is this ever an ok thing to say? When the student in question is just sitting quietly?
Head of Year thinks it's okay - "you can't force people to be friends"

I’m sorry your DS is being let down by his school.

Honestly at 14/ 15 forcing his presence into a group is only going to cause resentment. Its sad but you really can't force people to spend their free time with another person against their will. If your son has problems where ever he goes , which is sounds like he does from your replies , then maybe it's up son who needs to change here. Otherwise as you said his whole life is going to be difficult.

@romdowa you do understand that it's not as simple as that?

@challengerequired

He does struggle with social interaction. One boy dislikes him - it's mutual really. Staff did nothing to resolve this.

Well that's rubbish, unacceptable really.

Can you amend his EHCP to specifically include this sort of support?

@BarbarianMum I will try

Ouch, this would break my hurt if I knew my child was by themselves. Kids are so cruel. On school I was friends with a girl with learning difficulties and would always make sure she was okay and sat with us. Her mum many years later pulled me aside and thanked me for always including her in what I was doing. Said it out her mind at ease knowing she had such a caring and kind friend.

Some of these comments you have had are cruel.

Some children really need to be brought up to be kinder people. Some of the posters on here, you can start to see why some kids act and do what they do.

In*
Put*

You could call for an emergency review of the EHCP? Then insist that the school tackles the issue. Sounds like his best bet will be to have more intensive support at the SEN hub. If the school can't do that, then they can't meet his needs and that will be another conversation.

@Arbadacarba

It's not really anything to do with being friends. Sitting with someone isn't a declaration of friendship. It's a rude thing to say in my opinion.

Precisely that.

It’s hard to say without specifics, but if they are sat at tables, and he is taking a seat so that one of the friendship group has to sit elsewhere, or if he is constantly diverting the conversation to cars which the one boy likes but isn’t a feature of the group dynamic I can see why the other kids are getting fed up, and it is their leisure time too.

If he’s sitting there quietly and him being there doesn’t pop anyone else out of the group I think they are being mean.

Perhaps a compromise might be for him to ask the boy he gets on with if he can sit with them on one or two particular days each week?

To be honest I’d be more cross about staff in the Hub allowing him to be forced out of there, that should be his safe space shouldn’t it?

if the presence of the other child is making the group feel uncomfortable, they shouldn’t be forced to sit with them.

But they should be actively encouraged to question why it makes them uncomfortable. If someone behaves aggressively or rudely then they have grounds for rejecting that person outright. But if they are just a bit uncool and dull or awkward, why not make an effort sometimes and help that person relax and enjoy his lunch, making conversation. We don't move through life avoiding all discomfort and it does none of us any harm to feel a bit of discomfort if we can make a big difference to how someone else feels. Empathy isn't social weakness. Nor is it disempowering.

@RestingPandaFace it should be

@Cowbells I wish more people thought like you

[quote challengerequired]@romdowa you do understand that it's not as simple as that?[/quote]
I have asd and adhd so I do understand its not as simple as that but what is the alternative? Continue to force him where he isn't wanted?I hope you figure out a way to make his way in the world easier but what you want to happen is only going to make things worse for your son.

OP. YABU. Hear me out...

I'm the mother of a Yr 8 boy with additional needs, and honestly, as you should know the struggles we face, having also raised a non neurotypical child for over a decade, I have to say, you are coming across very blinkered for someone with so much experience.

Our children are many things. Often super bright. Unique. Inspiring. Creative. Fabulously weird. The John Cleeses and Stephen Fry's of the world.

But, (and you know this) they can also be too in your face. Socially backwards. Honestly, sometimes just relentlessly irritating. You know this as much as I do.

No, it's not their fault. But it's not the fault of the other children either. Sorry OP, but it sounds like they just don't like him. They're not swearing, or being nasty. And yes, it's sad when it's your (my) child who's not being accepted. But this ain't the first rodeo, and it ain't the last.

This isn't a classroom lesson, where the children sit where they're told, and it seems one of the boys happily chats to your DS in that context. This is the children's social time at lunch. And they have spent a few lunchtimes with your son, and decided they don't want to spend anymore. He doesn't get to impose himself on whoever he likes and they have to accept him, or its bullying. They said no. That's something he needs to learn is ok to hear. They're not stopping him having lunch, or infact sitting somewhere else. They're allowed to eat their lunch with their friends, and you can't force your DS into that dynamic if he doesn't fit.

The school are right, and deep down, you know they are. Because that's how life works. Some people will like you, some people won't. Teaching him that the other children are wrong or unkind because he can't involve himself as he prefers in their lunch, when they simply don't want him too, is setting him up to fail.

Talk to him. Try and help him understand that there are many other places he could sit, and other children he can get to know. And some will like him. Some won't.

But if they are just a bit uncool and dull or awkward, why not make an effort sometimes and help that person relax and enjoy his lunch, making conversation

I agree with this, but is it sometimes or is it every day? I know as an adult I would not have lunch with someone I didn’t really want to every day! I’d be more polite about it, but that’s life experience.

I had no friends for a good part of secondary school and used to wander around alone at times - feeling extremely self conscious and ashamed. Sometimes I used to hang around the edges of some groups just to not look like I was alone.

The thing is though -I think you can’t expect other children to include your son or even to have him always hanging out near them - its not realistic. Its hard for you and your son at the moment but its not the responsibility of those children to make things ok.

I have 3DC, one of whose has ASD. There’s no way in gods green earth I would ever ask for this to be done. Why would you encourage a child with SEN/social needs to basically force their way into a group that doesn’t want them? What does that teach them? If someone tells my son they don’t want to play with him, I tell him that fine, sometimes he doesn’t want to play with others either.

Equally, my elder child has recently told me he is desperate to say something similar to a child that keeps following him/his friends around. He hasn’t, but it is bloody frustrating to be trailed around daily by somebody who don’t like, regardless of additional needs. Perhaps the child in question has asked nicely many times and just got fed up?

I was the unpopular kid at school. Often sat on my own at lunch. I still don't think you can force friendships. These are teenagers, school is mostly a highly regimented environment and lunch is the main socialising opportunity of the day. Grownups can afford to be inclusive because there's more choice and agency. I was on a uni course with a bloke who was lovely but did tend to monologue at length about subjects of interest only to him, and clearly had a variety of issues with social interaction. Luckily there were enough of us that he could sit next to different people each day in breaks and was always included. It would have been a taller order with a smaller group. Also, we were all adults. Teenagers are not known for their social graces! It's heartbreaking as a parent though, no question, and the school clearly need to sort something out.

We'll put TwinsandTrifle.

The school has let you down, you can't expect teens to pick up the slack. They were polite for a while, they aren't going to spend every lunch managing social expectations of another child because they talked about cars once.

Cars are a really cool and popular interest. He's bound to find like minded people who appreciate his interests and him.

@AledsiPad absolutely. Crossposted with you.

@Nightbear

’Used to go to the "hub" for children with SEN but there also wasn't tolerated and staff didn't proactively do anything to promote harmony.’

I would be furious about that.

And the school have just left it at that?!

@JoveWhenHeSawMyFannysFace

But if they are just a bit uncool and dull or awkward, why not make an effort sometimes and help that person relax and enjoy his lunch, making conversation

I agree with this, but is it sometimes or is it every day? I know as an adult I would not have lunch with someone I didn’t really want to every day! I’d be more polite about it, but that’s life experience.

I agree

I'm a mum of a boy with SEN, he's in yr 7. He's very quiet and struggles a lot with social interaction. His anxiety is through the roof, so no one would hear a peep from him. Would I expect the same group to put up with him expecting to sit at the table with them every day, no I would not.

I would definitely raise the issue with the HUB, but I wouldn't be demanding that the group issue is forced upon. I think there should be an expectation that anyone can sit anywhere, but daily is asking too much and I don't think the group are being UR saying they've had enough.

Twinsandtrifle you sound like an amazing mum who will be making great strides in helping your child find positive relationships in life.

Even NT people aren’t wanted in every friendship group but there are posters here determined to cause themselves or their child harm by building relationships based on pity or duty.

@challengerequired

It wasn't a one off. For a while they tolerated him.

This whole thing really does remind me of something I went through at school.

If it was anything like us, (alternative crowd - certainly not the popular group!), we were polite, tried to be nice, but we all felt uncomfortable, he had 0 boundaries for personal space, asked awkward questions, and meant we couldn't enjoy our lunch break. On top of that we just didn't click - despite him thinking we did. None of us really wanted to tell him to go away and were all a bit scared he'd lash out (he had been known to do so) so someone told him X was looking for him, he'd then wonder off to go find them and just generally encouraged him that so-in-so wanted to be their friend but was shy. It sounds mean but in a way he was friends with the whole year by year 11, he couldn't tell when people were mocking him and he thought he was one of the most popular boys in school. Also it is a very awkward situation for the other children to be in, they don't really know how to handle it!

I could give you a long story about this boy deciding we were best friends in year 11 after we had to sit next to each other in a class.

Without speaking to the other children involved, you have no idea what has happened. Just because he sat with them for awhile, doesn't mean that they've been friends. It seems very unlikely to me that one day they just woke up and decided to tell him to go away one day after they'd all been having a nice lunch together. It is more likely they've been polite, he hasn't been picking up on hints so they have decided to be blunt about it.

You need to talk to the school and see about what support they can put in place for him. I don't see how they'd be allowed to kick him out of the hub. You need to raise it with them. Not try and force the school to enforce him being allowed to sit with this particular group.