"We don't want you to sit with us"

[challengerequired]

Is this ever an ok thing to say? When the student in question is just sitting quietly?
Head of Year thinks it's okay - "you can't force people to be friends"

It's not really anything to do with being friends. Sitting with someone isn't a declaration of friendship. It's a rude thing to say in my opinion.

I think it depends on context.
You can't force people to be friends but there are occasions when groups should at least tolerate additional people.

e.g:

• in lessons if in groups they should be accepting and 'professional'
• in the canteen if spaces are limited then they should be accepting of additional people
• at break or lunch when people can go wherever, then maybe it's OK (though could be worded nicer)?

(And I say this as a parent whose DDs struggled socially).

School should help social misfits find their place, and provide them with places to meet if needed.

It's rude and unpleasant and cruel, yes.

But if school does intervene, they still won't "want" you to sit with them. They'll just have to pretend to tolerate it. The sentiment won't change.

It's blunt. But no one should be forced into having their space encroached by someone they don't feel comfortable around.

The "must accept everyone regardless or you're a bully" argument is not something we should be forcing on our children, especially girls.

I just think that I wouldn't say this to someone in my workplace, so why should someone say it to a peer? If they're sitting in a communal space eating their lunch? It seems spectacularly rude and unkind.

Not ok.

The student who said it needs a few lessons in basic manners and empathy.

@NannyAndJohn

It's blunt. But no one should be forced into having their space encroached by someone they don't feel comfortable around.

The "must accept everyone regardless or you're a bully" argument is not something we should be forcing on our children, especially girls.

It depends on the context though, surely?

There’s people at work I’d prefer not to sit with. But unless there’s an actual reason, I have to suck it up and get on with it sometimes while I’m at work / at a work social event. And being able to have cordial relationships with people you dislike is a valuable life skill.

However, if I was going to a purely social lunch with a work friend and one of the people I don’t like tried to tag along, I wouldn’t be so accommodating.

It depends on the context but in general I'm very cynical about trying to force people to be friends.

Okay, sorry for dripfeed.
So the student being rejected has special needs and struggles socially.
Has no other demands other than to be allowed to sit in the vicinity of this particular group.

It’s rude and immature.
I’d be ashamed of dd if she didn’t have enough patience and empathy to tolerate another student sitting quietly near her.

Grown up life is going to come as a shock to some kids. You can often spot the type in the workplace.

So it's not about friends as such but about being allowed to sit somewhere at lunch

@JoveWhenHeSawMyFannysFace Having to put up with an annoying colleague at work is a far cry from a group of teenage girls being forced into having some (usually male) pupil they don't know sit with them when they're trying to talk about teenage girl things.

That sounds a bit mean, obviously needs a seat for lunch. Does the student always pick their groups table? I could see why that would be potentially awkward.

@challengerequired

Okay, sorry for dripfeed. So the student being rejected has special needs and struggles socially. Has no other demands other than to be allowed to sit in the vicinity of this particular group.

Is there a member of staff (dinner lady?) who could help this pupil find a group which doesn't find his presence off-putting?

If it is at lunch for eating lunch in a particular area, then the group should be tolerant.
But bluntly, if it is every lunch I can see that would get annoying/wearing for the group and their patience would be tested.

I feel as if another solution is needed by the school. helping the student find more friends somehow and supporting them at lunch. In a year group in a secondary school it should be possible.

What do you mean "no demands, other than to sit in the vicinity of this group"?

Ah, that’s difficult.

If they really aren’t friends I wouldn’t expect the same group of people to always be the ones to have “their” space encroached on. I’d expect them to be ok with it sometimes, but I can imagine they also want their own space sometimes. Are there other groups the child might feel comfortable sitting with, perhaps on a rotational basis?

No one student has the right to dictate where other students can or can't sit. The student or students who are telling him he can't sit there need putting straight by a teacher. These mini dictators don't own the canteen.

It’s an OK thing to say. The group involved are saving the student a lot of unnecessary work trying to fit in with people that don’t like them.

If everyone was more honest then students that were at the edge of groups might find like minded people to hang out with rather than wasting their time thinking they were in the popular group.

The Be Kind mentality doesn’t help you find your tribe.

I was that disabled pupil and bullied. But still, fake niceness because a teacher or head teacher told other pupils they had to, I would have hated that too.

Being patronised on the basis of disability is awful.

It's bullying to make someone feel bad by excluding them in this way.

Not pleasant, but realistically if (s)he's insisting on sitting right near the same group every lunchtime then I can see why they might say something. You can't control where someone sits, but equally a child needs to know that they can't 'demand' to sit near someone who has no interest in being friends with them. I'm afraid I also think the sex of the child in question is also relevant. I'd be more inclined to say a teenage boy should really not be forcing his presence on the girls.

But without a bit more context it's hard to know. The word 'demand' rings alarm bells.

It's not OK to say it without providing an alternative.

A new girl started in DDs year and latched in to DDs group. DD and her friends didn't want her sitting with them, so they asked the "manga lesbians" to befriend her which they did, and the girl found her people. They didn't just say "we don't want you".

The head of year needs to have a word about manners with the pets who said it and try to find a place for the struggling child.

@WildWaterSwimmer

It's bullying to make someone feel bad by excluding them in this way.

Teenage girls should not be forced into letting unknown males in their groups and spaces.