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Secondary education

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Original poster

"We don't want you to sit with us"

268 replies

challengerequired · 12/06/2021 11:12

Is this ever an ok thing to say? When the student in question is just sitting quietly?
Head of Year thinks it's okay - "you can't force people to be friends"

OP posts:
chocolateoranges33 · 12/06/2021 13:05

I think it is very difficult to judge from the limited information given and can certainly see it from both sides. I think a lot of it depends upon how close they want to sit, what they feel they will gain from it and how often it happens. Are you able to expand more precisely one the situation?
However, Im afraid if one of my children came home and repeatedly said someone was being made to sit near them as they wanted to and they felt uncomfortable by it, I wouldn't be happy. I teach my children to be tolerant and kind, however by the time they are teenagers i accept that they don't have to like everyone and shouldn't have to be with people they don't like in their 'free' time. Class work etc is different. I wouldn't allow nastiness but I wouldn't want my child feeling uncomfortable by the constant presence of someone they didn't want in their space.

One of my children has been used before in a classroom as the child to calm down a disruptive pupil by sitting next to and to model good behaviour. They were always having to sit next to them and the teacher didn't care how it affected my child so long as the disruptive one was calmer than perviously and kept the disruption towards my child and not the wider class. It was after getting nowhere with this with the school that i decided to prioritise my child's feelings over the feelings of other children and i would continue to support them to move away from anyone who made them feel uncomfortable.

NannyAndJohn · 12/06/2021 13:06

@challengerequired

Why would you assume he's creepy?
That wasn't directed at the pupil in question, I was using it to illustrate why a PP's argument is bollocks.
baldafrique · 12/06/2021 13:09

Why does he want to sit with them out of interest? Or is it literally where there are free seats? Seems he is setting himself up for rejection unnecessarily.

cariadlet · 12/06/2021 13:11

It was a blunt and rather unkind comment and I can see how upsetting it must be to see your child being rejected but I think that the teacher was right to say that you can't force children to be friends.

Did your ds want to sit with this group on one particular day or is he trying to sit with them every day? If it's the latter, I can understand why the other pupil has been so direct.

It's heartbreaking as a mum to think that our dc is socially rejected but I think that you need to try and see things from the point of view of the other pupils.

A lot of pp have posted how they or their dc have been the kind child who had befriended or has been made to sit with a child that they wouldn't have chosen as a friend and those posts have made very clear the impact which the situation had on them.

The school needs to be helping your ds to make friends and to find children who would be happy for him to join their group.

Twoforthree · 12/06/2021 13:11

Some lunchtimes, yes. All lunchtimes, then i can see why it would be annoying. I’m presuming when you say he makes no demands to see them out of school, that doesn’t mean he sits there quietly without interacting. If he’s contributing to conversations and he isn’t really wanted, then that’s not good for them or him.

I would concentrate on asking the school to help him find a better way of spending some lunchtimes.

baldafrique · 12/06/2021 13:12

It would be wrong of a teacher to be setting him up to be rejected. Surely there are other children he may be able to be pals with?

opalescent · 12/06/2021 13:13

I can't see both sides at all.
Jesus, what kind of kids are we raising, who are so precious that cannot have their 'space encroached upon' by another student looking for somewhere to quietly sit.

My kids are primary age at the moment, and would get short shrift if I knew they had told another child he/she couldn't sit with them. Never mind if they were older.

It's cruel and unkind. I'm sure they could have struggled through 🙄.

opalescent · 12/06/2021 13:15

OP I'm so sorry that you are having these worries about your child, it's so hard to feel that they are not included.

TeenMinusTests · 12/06/2021 13:16

OP. OK So now we have:

A young looking socially awkward y9 boy with SN is 'demanding' (requesting?) to sit with a mixed group of other pupils (year group?) and one of them, a boy, has said we don't want you to sit with us.

Is your son wanting to sit with them every day? If so, why? What is the school doing to help him generally be more included and make friends?

TeenMinusTests · 12/06/2021 13:18

opalescent An occasional then yes it would be nice for them to be kind. But it is too much to ask of the same pupils every single day. However the OP so far isn't very expansive on what's really going on.

opalescent · 12/06/2021 13:20

It's all well and good, until your own child is the one being excluded. At which point I'm sure you feel quite desperate for the 'group' to find it within themselves to allow another seat at the table, during the odd lunch break.

opalescent · 12/06/2021 13:22

I do agree that the school needs to find ways to support OPs son to socialise. But I am also a firm believer in basic kindness and empathy. I don't accept that it is a huge burden for an established group to accept an extra person at the table, even if it is every lunch. If the alternative is a single person feeling excluded and wretched every lunch break.

Wavingnotdrown1ng · 12/06/2021 13:23

The school should be providing a safe haven for students who are very vulnerable in this way. I say this as both a teacher and as the parent of a neurodiverse child who has difficulties with socialising in school. Usually, the Support Dept staffs a safe place at lunchtime for students who have these needs and your child should be being supported with developing social skills and not being constantly rejected. Ask the SENCO and the Head of Year what support us available. Where I work, the TAs staff bubble lunch rooms for Yrs 7-9 and some students are in Support. They have lunch, chat, play board games and sometimes do craft. Many schools also have Peer Mentor schemes that run during lunch.

ramabanana · 12/06/2021 13:25

Has he said why it's this particular group he needs to sit with?

I imagine he'd be better off sitting with people who would want to engage with him or at least be happy with his presence

TeenMinusTests · 12/06/2021 13:25

opalescent Both my DDs have had social difficulties at school, which we and school worked at to help. But it still wouldn't have been helped by foisting them (daily?) on the same group of unwilling pupils.

There is a difference between occasionally and daily and it isn't clear how frequently this is happening.

MissyB1 · 12/06/2021 13:28

@NannyAndJohn

This is a child with a disability, but in your eyes that makes him “creepy” jeez! That says a lot more about you than it does about this child.
How are you raising your kids I wonder?

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 12/06/2021 13:28

School should be providing a safe space for struggling students.

When I was at school, the rule was that you had to fill up your year's lunch table from the top leaving no gaps. So there was no rejection or faffing about finding your friends... you just had to sit in the next available space. Saved a lot of problems.

opalescent · 12/06/2021 13:29

@TeenMinusTests I appreciate your point, I really do. But there isn't a third party who is foisting OPs son onto the group. He is choosing to gravitate towards them for his own reasons. And if I was Mum to one of the group, I would be asking them to show kindness and empathy, and let it run its course. Which is not what has happened.

Newgirls · 12/06/2021 13:33

This is why we need school clubs opening up again - choirs, drama, Lego etc. I know some are able to happen within bubbles etc but it’s so difficult for kids without a set social group.

Sorry to hear about this op and sadly he won’t be the only teen going through this. We need more normality for our kids.

JoveWhenHeSawMyFannysFace · 12/06/2021 13:36

The thing is, we don’t know how long this has been going on. We don’t know if it’s the same group every day, or the extent to which he is trying to interact with the group (if at all). We don’t know if there are other people in the group with SEN or having personal difficulties.

He shouldn’t have to sit on his own if he doesn’t want to. But it shouldn’t be always down to the same group to accommodate him if he isn’t their friend.

PotteringAlong · 12/06/2021 13:44

But they don’t want to sit with him, and that’s their right as much as his. There’s a difference between sitting at a table next to them and wanting to sit with them.
Hard as it is for you, I do think they have the right to say no, actually, we would rather you didn’t.

lastcall · 12/06/2021 13:50

I'm confused. Yes it's a bit harsh, unfriendly. But why would this child want to sit near a group that don't want him as a friend

It happens every single day at schools with lots of children.

Children want to be friends with children who don't want to be their friends for a variety of reasons. It's painful to watch. And it's repetitively awful to have to first listen to them complain that "A and B won't play with me/sit with me / include me in their game', and then explain to them that actually, A and B are entitled to play by themselves as a pair and not include them if they don't want to. And they need to consider playing with other people which I can help arrange. But they don't want to do that, and it becomes a daily complaint.

There are no easy solutions, other than to insist on respect, politeness, no name calling, no cruelty ... and cruelty doesn't include not letting people be your playmate on their break and lunchtimes when the other person(s) doesn't want that.

lastcall · 12/06/2021 13:51

@Newgirls

This is why we need school clubs opening up again - choirs, drama, Lego etc. I know some are able to happen within bubbles etc but it’s so difficult for kids without a set social group.

Sorry to hear about this op and sadly he won’t be the only teen going through this. We need more normality for our kids.

Absolutely, Having options on places to go where there will be like-minded people or socially struggling people are much needed.
BarbarianMum · 12/06/2021 13:54

My ds was the child chosen to help support a boy with autism in his class. Started in Y5, by Y6 it was very much his "job" to help X cope.

Over time they became best friends.

Just a bit of positivity to counter the tales above.

Cowbells · 12/06/2021 14:01

@Tristatearea

It’s an OK thing to say. The group involved are saving the student a lot of unnecessary work trying to fit in with people that don’t like them.

If everyone was more honest then students that were at the edge of groups might find like minded people to hang out with rather than wasting their time thinking they were in the popular group.

The Be Kind mentality doesn’t help you find your tribe.

It's not OK. Teenagers should be encouraged not to be cliquey in situations where a bit of grace and good manners could massively increase another person's happiness at school. You don't have to be someone's closest friend to tolerate them sitting near you for 20 minutes at lunch or on a bus ride. You don't have to mix with them socially after school or at weekends.