State or private

[Mnetter78432]

Hello, wondering if anyone had any advice?
Have a couple of years to decide but it's playing on my mind. Bright child but super interested in all the extra curricular stuff, very good standard in sports, music, drama etc. Local secondary school walkable and good A level results but v narrow focus on core subjects, poor facilities and covers high deprivation catchment area. Independent is in town, 3 miles away, buses v frequent from outside our house. Small school, huge focus on all the extra curricular stuff, not highly pressured academically (although excellent results) good rep for pastoral care.
But, single sex which I'm wary about and financially it would be a squeeze (we have a younger one too who I'd want to send to the same).
I don't think they'd get better results particularly at the independent, I think they'd be fine at either, I just think I'd have been so much happier at school without violent disruptive boys in my class and four to an ancient keyboard, and if this is within my grasp to give to my kids, should I try?

Thanks for reading

Imo, go state. If you're even thinking it would be a squeeze then don't go there - any disposable income you have would be better put towards family adventures and enrichment.

Have a read of 'Some kids I taught..' by Kate Clanchy, it's a lot of food for thought.

How small is the private? Is it financially secure? Will there be a big enough pool if kids for your DC to find friends like him?

Also privates, particularly smaller ones tend to concentrate on the traditional subjects at GCSE/A level so if you don't like that at the state, check carefully.

Also check that the pupils have access to all the fab facilities eg swimming pool often form part of a sports club for private members, and also used by a variety of local schools so limited availability for actual pupils.

Having said that, both mine went private for secondary because they were the best fit for my DCs. Both went single sex too which I think works well, although DD has chosen co-ed for 6th form.

Money is obviously a factor. You need to check what is covered by the fees. IME, fees have covered virtually everything. One had compulsory school dinners on top. School trips required for lessons were extra, but would be in a state too. The big trips - skiing, overseas etc were optional and never had enough places for everyone, and lots of children didn't go. Uniform can be v expensive, but most have good secondhand options. Attitude to money varies from school to school. One of ours very much looked down on our car in the carpark etc, whereas the other really didn't notice at all. It's important to get a feel for the school concerned.

As you’ve time, is the local State Secondary the only option? You may have done this already but if not, google ‘compare schools’ and ‘gov.uk’, it’ll list Secondaries in your area. Compare performance and then check their catchment areas on first and second offer (some have it on their websites but if not, call the admissions teams). I’d also look at out of area high performing schools that offered places for children with a talent in their specialism (you mention your DCs interest in sports, music and drama). You may find that this process gives you a greater number of options to consider - we went this route and DD is at an out of area better performing State on a music place. Our local State is decent but we did want to give her the best possible (non Private, non Grammar) option.

If it’s going to be a stretch for two (and I agree you’d have to do it for both), I’d avoid it and spend some of the money instead on the activities your DC enjoy. There are just too many economic uncertainties with Brexit on the horizon. If the Secondary sets then there is a chance they’ll not be in many of the classes with more disruptive kids anyway. There are also the other benefits of State such as giving DC good exposure to mixing with children to a real variety of backgrounds and cultures which does stand them in good stead in real life. I didn’t get that till university personally and was pretty gauche.

You got the time, I just think I’d look beyond just these two schools.

You’ve got the time not You got the time (heads off for another coffee!)

Bright kids do well in state schools I sent mine privately and I wish I hadn't. Financially it's such a strain and it only goes up , expensive trips and uniforms Costs on top. I later became a teacher in a very rough sink school and honestly top set kids do really really well there.
I regret sending mine privately. But I suggest you go and have a good look at both

Thanks all, really helpful to have perspective from those who've been there x

We whittled down our choices to a state grammar and a very expensive independent. It wasn’t a choice between state or private in the end as we would have been equally happy with either. My daughter chopped and changed her mind (we gave her the final decision) but decided on the private school. Why? Because she said it felt like home.

It’s hard right now but being able to visit the schools is a big factor in making the decision. I also wouldn’t have committed to the independent school if I knew paying the fees would affect the quality of our family life.

I would say that it’s easier to start in the state school and then move to private than the other way round. The state school might surprise you. Our local comp is great for very bright kids and has more Oxbridge successes than the independent school in the same town.

Thanks, our local school does better with oxbridge than the independent, I guess I just worry that she'd have to cram so much into the evenings if the school only offered the basics. And would that affect family life too, having to ferry everywhere. Financially it would mean basic holidays instead of fancy ones, which is a big deal to some and would seem selfish to others.
I think I'll try and save up over the next couple of years, if that proves too restrictive we know it's a non starter and focus on the state options.

Are you aware of what the local Secondary offers in terms of clubs and extra curricular classes? It might be more than you’d think (DDs offers a lot of the Performing Arts side from LAMDA, multi instrument, script writing, 6 choirs etc but also offers things like a horse riding club). If it’s not the academics but the extra curricular bits and pieces that appeal re the Private which is what I’m reading from the above, do a much broader search on the State Secondaries in your area and find out more about the potential add ons. Honestly, there may be more on offer than you think.

Be warned OP, these threads always descend into increasingly heated and polarised views on state vs private schools! The key thing is to look at your own circumstances and do what you think is right for your family (easier said than done without a crystal ball). We had a similar choice and went for private, but in our case it ticked all the boxes rather than most of them - more convenient for transport and school day timings, coed rather than single sex, excellent academically, great facilities, big school and financially secure, plus we don't pay full fees. And we still thought long and hard about it. If it had failed to tick any of those boxes then I think we would have gone for state. From what you say, there are doubts in your mind about the indie - you're not keen on single sex, it's a smaller school (may be fine but may have disadvantages), and the finances are tight. In this scenario I think you need to think really really hard about what the school would add, and how much that's actually worth to you. And look at the state option more closely if you can, to try to get more insight into what it's really like. Are its weaknesses things which will actually affect your child? As a PP said, it's much easier to move from state to private later if you're not happy (assuming there are spaces). If you go for private then you really don't want to have to move later - not on the basis of finances, anyway.

Thank you. I understand it's an emotive subject. I am a real believer in state education but it's not as morally clear cut between the two, mine already have so many advantages with extra clubs etc, and a small independent school would not endow them with advantageous networks to get them ahead later in life. It's just hard not to put myself in (especially my eldest) child's shoes. I would have loved to try for a scholarship / 11+ but instead went to a school where kids had knives and sniffed glue.

The local school is very narrow, I know people who teach /send their kids there, so we would need to do any extra curricular stuff ourselves, which is fine but I hope it would be understood and supported by the school. I don't want exhausted children, but equally especially in music they have so much potential it would be a shame to waste.

If we had loads of money, we'd go straight for the independent, and if we had none we wouldn't give it another thought. Being in the middle feels like a harder decision!

Also, yes will definitely look at other state schools nearby, I guess, in my head I was thinking if the local one is 15 minute walk away then we'd have time to do extra stuff in the evenings, plus local friends etc.

I’ve never regretted sending mine to private school and state school was never an option despite the ones near us being relatively very good.

Another option is for me to work full time, as I do school hours at the moment, but that would make ferrying harder!

Both DH and I went to boarding school and assumed we would send ours when the time came (and then we went and had 4, so that went out of the window!). My parents also said don't do it if you don't HAVE to - especially if it is not financially comfortable - and you can say that, even factoring in large fee increases every year.

We are in a grammar county and all four of mine are at superselective grammars - the boys play rugby, study greek and latin, there are sports trips to Dubai, Argentina, South Africa, and geography trips to far flung places, history trips to Russia etc - nothing different to the trips that my friends are getting in their very expensive private schools and paying £35k a year per child for.....!

Single sex v mixed can be an issue - DD is at a single sex grammar and as she has several brothers, I do wish that we had looked at the outstanding mixed state comp here because she has had rather a torrid time in an all girls environment, and sadly, the girls' school has not offered nearly as much extra curricular stuff as the boys'.

Is it worth doing state to start with and see how it goes, and then perhaps moving into private for 6th form - several of DDs friends are doing that - as did some of my eldests DS's friends after GCSEs.....equally we had several boys move into 6th form from private school - perhaps hoping to game the contextual offers .

I do worry about the all girls, another local independent has terrible problems with eating disorders and I remember my own friends going boy crazy if they'd been to a girls' school!
Grammars near us are an hour's bus ride away which I don't think is worth it for us

Are there any other state schools locally with a broader set of outside of curriculum offer, could you move into catchment for these instead of committing to possibly 7 year of fees times 2. It's a huge commitment.

I will definitely have a look at all the others, as yes, it is an eye-watering amount!

All I can say, OP, is that mine have been at independent schools from Reception onwards (youngest is now in Lower 6), and it has been worth every single penny.

"Stretch" is the understatement of the century, though. Never mind basic holidays - I haven't been anywhere at all for about 12 years. Currently sitting with three jumpers on so as not to put the heating on. Etc, etc.

Other people would say that was insane. However, it has worked for me. We have done both single sex and co-ed. I am strongly in favour of single sex, especially for boys (who are given to act like dicks if they're in classes with girls).

We had a similar choice to Zodlebud but DD was 100% wanting to go to the private school and swerve “friends” who were all going to the local grammar.

School trips are only part of the equation. At the grammar DDs didn’t go because on quite a few trips because they were balloted out. It was big so getting into sports teams, music and drama productions was also problematic. We know loads of DDs there who didn’t get much of a broader education at all because they couldn’t access it. Yes, good results but not the same as the private school.

We looked at the broader educational offering. DD boarded but she did 12 extra activities at one point! She was always that sort of child and was able to follow her interests. No one said that she couldn’t have a go or join in.

The other element was gaining (Even more) confidence. We did find quite a few DDs were not sure what to do at university and later for a job, but the ones who wanted it most, got what they wanted.

No they were not all boy mad! That’s a rather lazy stereotype. In fact quite girls could develop at their own pace without judgement. That’s a bonus!

I agree on the ‘boy mad’ being a stereotype - in my own case, ‘boy completely inept’ would have been truer! Also it’s 2020, DC are a more open generation & I’m sure we can all acknowledge that going to a single sex school really doesn’t mean all DC will emerge at 18 with no relationship trauma’s or be ‘boy mad’. My eldest DD1s longest relationship to date was with a girl she met in six form.

We did private primary, and have now moved 15 miles into Grammar land for secondary. We have 2 children and we never regretted the money we spent on their education, but I couldn't have done it for another 10 years. We plan to go on a really nice family holiday this summer, now that we're down to paying for just one at school. We've been paying for school and nursery, nursery for one or a double school bill for almost 10 years now. It's a relief to be coming to the end.

Thanks, if I'm really honest the 'polish' side of a private education does appeal (and I know that won't win me any friends) I think having confidence and being well spoken does make life easier for you, more than A level results or actual acquired knowledge. But I'm not sure it's worth £200k and I know that richer kids aren't without problems. A scholarship would be a possibility for the older one but probably not the younger. Anyway, still a couple of years to decide.
Thanks again for all the responses

We had the same dilemma, and decided to throw caution to the wind, rather than listen to the 'don't do it if you can't afford it' anecdotes on what we could otherwise do the money. Keep our little bit of equity in our home and pass it on when we pop our clogs was perhaps the only alternative, so we remortgaged and never looked back :)
On a more serious note, for us there has been no comparison. We had a choice of grammars to choose from, and while our daughter would have probably academically thrived, as she had very high scores without the ridiculous preparation her classmates were being subjected to....I very much doubt she would have thrived in much else. If anything, the ethos of her school is very much about embracing and participating in every aspect of the school's curriculum..and not just the academics. While the parents we know who chose grammar, seem to spend their time helping their kids with homework (why??), sharing tutor tips and ferrying kids around after school clubs, as the grammars offer very little by way of sports or extra-curricular. It becomes quite a different lifestyle choice at the end of it, and I'm glad we made the choice we did. Good luck.

@Mnetter78432. First time I sniffed glue/ inhaled deodorant/ smoked a ciggie/almost had my stomach pumped and tried an extensive range of extra curricular narcotics was at my very famous indie. Indie kids always have the best drugs so don’t place too much weight on protecting them from glue sniffing at a fee paying school. Knives we didn’t have I don’t think but one of the very rich polo playing princes was reputed to have a gun! And don’t get me started on the bullying it took years of counselling to unwind the issues I faced as a result of my exclusive schooling. My kiddos might not be members of the same social club I was but they do seem much happier at their lovely comp than me and my siblings were (and than their cousins are at their fee paying schools) you can’t buy happiness.