State or private

[Mnetter78432]

Hello, wondering if anyone had any advice?
Have a couple of years to decide but it's playing on my mind. Bright child but super interested in all the extra curricular stuff, very good standard in sports, music, drama etc. Local secondary school walkable and good A level results but v narrow focus on core subjects, poor facilities and covers high deprivation catchment area. Independent is in town, 3 miles away, buses v frequent from outside our house. Small school, huge focus on all the extra curricular stuff, not highly pressured academically (although excellent results) good rep for pastoral care.
But, single sex which I'm wary about and financially it would be a squeeze (we have a younger one too who I'd want to send to the same).
I don't think they'd get better results particularly at the independent, I think they'd be fine at either, I just think I'd have been so much happier at school without violent disruptive boys in my class and four to an ancient keyboard, and if this is within my grasp to give to my kids, should I try?

Thanks for reading

I had a look at the criteria for contextual offers at one of my old universities. By my parent’s postcode I didn’t apply but my school did because of the poor progression to higher education.

I have said on another thread here that I am very suspicious of the ‘bright kids will do just as well anywhere’ argument. I think it is lazy. I was that bright child that excelled at a fairly crap comp but it wasn’t an easy or pleasurable experience. I wasn’t pushed to the fullest of my ability, would often ‘dumb-down’ to fit in etc. I compare my experience to my niece and nephew who are in selective day schools and it is worlds apart.

@Ratatcat - yes you are right, what it really equates to, is they’ll do well by general standards. Unless you happen to have other means of push & support, or your child is super self-motivated...which in reality few often are! Children generally like to blend in.
Unless you are happy to be that little bit ‘different’. Our nephew at Cambridge is a case in point - very bright, but has always been extremely self motivated. Attended a good state comp, but comes from a household of Oxbridge educated academics, no TV..no electronic devices..not much by way of socialising with other kids..just books & studying. In that sense, he certainly never fitted in with the crowd. So no surprises there. My other niece & nephews who attended state comps, either dropped out of uni..or didn’t go at all. Probably not that different in levels of intellect but poles apart in terms of what they academically achieved. Whereas my privately educated nieces & nephews..have generally all done very well academically, and are now happily pursuing careers and interests that they very much enjoy. It’s been interesting to see their different paths. Particularly as they all lived within a ten mile radius.

Scholarships aren’t what they used to be. Once upon a time they were worth a fair portion of fees but now the money is channeled into bursaries. It is possible to top up a scholarship with a bursary though it depends on income.

@timetest - yes that’s true, however there are still a few that are offering more significant scholarships. Our daughter received significant scholarship offers from all three schools we applied to. Ranging from 30% to 50%. And children can be awarded scholarships in more than one discipline.
We wouldn’t have qualified for bursary awards, as we exceeded income thresholds, whereas we have seen families successfully claim bursary awards, based on lower income thresholds being met, yet they live in larger houses than ours, often inherited...and regularly holiday abroad. I do think the bursary awards process needs more refinement..it doesn’t always cater for those who need it most.

Ratacat, do universities look at home post code for application. We live in a post code which is not affluent, and the local school gets so so results. My boys attend grammar school in another town. Will the universities look at the school post code, or the home post code

School I would have thought otherwise everyone would be gaming that little loophole

I think it varies depending upon on how the contextual offer is calculated abd I imagine it varies a lot. I was interested so looked up my own circs as a hypothetical. If I was 17 now, I’d have had no consideration based on postcode (which is right as affluent area) but I would have had some consideration for my school.

I know I shouldn’t rise to the bait but these threads make me so cross. Private school fees these days are insane, especially in London. Unless you’re comfortably clearing £200k a year household income I can’t see how they are achievable for most middle class families. Clearly a number have grandparents who will pay/other income streams, but having attending a highly selective independent myself my kids will go state. The sacrifices my parents made to send me there were minimal as the fees were at a reasonable level. That’s not the case any longer. Quite frankly I’d have done better to squander all my money I’ve earned/be a SAHM and get a bursary. Instead the choice is astronomical fees. And call me old fashioned but I’m not prepared to have to risk pulling them out because I can’t pay any longer so would want several years worth in the bank.

I think it’s incredibly sad quite how limited these schools have got. I’m not prepared to send my children to these exclusive enclaves, far removed from the real world. Why do my children need world class sporting and drama facilities, I’d much rather they’d have kept the fees down and been a bit more rough around the edges to enable a (slightly) wider range of kids to attend.

Am I alone in thinking this? I suspect outside of London it’s slightly less of an issue but with a 4 bed house round here around £1mi the amount of money to live this lifestyle is eye watering. In our smallish 3bed I’m not prepared for my child to be the one in the poor house...

Private school fees these days are insane, especially in London

Very true, thisismylife but the good schools are oversubscribed so there must be plenty of rich parents or grandparents.
I don’t know why the fees go up every year well beyond inflation.

Fees are around £12-13k pa here in the Midlands. We were a one-income family for a few years (home educating ds and then dh retraining) which allowed us to qualify for a bursary for Dd. We have a small end terrace in a low income area but Dd was very happy at the school and all her friends loved to come for sleepovers. There was no judgment from anyone. I can see that for the ‘well-off’ middle class who earn above the bursary threshold (£72k household income at DD’s school) fees may be unaffordable without other sacrifices - small house in an undesirable area due example. But then those people have the option of moving to the best school catchment areas so they do have choices.

@crazycrofter “ What is a bit strange is that some people will argue that private schools aren’t worth it, you can get the equivalent in a state school, yet on the other hand they support contextual offers because independent school students have an advantage - but what is the advantage if state schools are just as good?”

I think that’s a fair point but it does depend on what basis you’ve argued for State. While there are of course State schools by and large across the country outperforming Private schools, by and large Private’s and Grammars do achieve academically better results. We chose State as we wanted to support the State sector from a political standpoint and feel its has given our DDs advantaged in terms of mixing with a range of society. However I wouldn’t disagree that we’ve also advantaged our children but living in a well off, low crime area with good State schools which we could afford to do.

As I understand it, contextual offers are in the main extended to DC in State schools performing under the National Average or in areas with a low rate of progression to higher education, neither which would apply in DD2s case so she wouldn’t get one. Extending contextual offers to DC in underperforming schools whatever their parental income does seem fair to me, I’m less convinced by location.

I really ought to check my posts more - one too many by and large’s there and it should be ‘given our DDs advantages’.

State

Fair enough