shit mothers day because of vile vile DH, he's surpassed himself this time

[minxofmancunia]

Started at 5.30 am when ds (6mo) woke up for the first time which for him is briiliant. Dh was supposed to be getting up with him, told me he'd be giving him milk to et him back to sleep again. I reminded him of what we'd discussed which was we'd try to settle him without milk, OR if he wouldn't and it was after about 5.30 we'd try not to give him milk straight away so as to restructure his feeds a bit (when he night feeds he won't drink anything all morning and it all goes wonky). I've worked f**king hard with ds at night trying to reverse it the correct way round and spent HOURS awake with him.

DH did his usual lost his temper chucked the bottle of cooled boiled water at me and told me to get up with him even though I was supposed to be having a lie-in. Cue explosive row, he enede up getting up with ds I just lay in bed crying. Got up myself at 8, more nastiness, supposed to be going to church as a family but took dd (3.5) on my own just to get away from him and his rants about how Mothers day is "pathetic" and why should he make an effort etc etc because he doesn't believe in it.

Aftre church had a meal out, couldn't eat much due to nasty atmosphere then more spite this pm, went out to get some new gym clothes, he offered to buy for me which I didn;t expect but half way there because I'd mentioned how unhappy I was with his behaviour turned the car round and refused to go, then froced me to apologise and then did it twice more just because i wasn't saying exactly what he wanted.

I haven't been able to stop crying all day, dd just looks really worried all the time because her Mummy is so sad .

I really really hate him , he's a f**kwit. This is pretty much the scenario every single weekend, he won;t go along with me about anything re parenting and just has these huge toddler type tantrums everytime I disagree with him. If I don;t apologise or give in to him he just makes threats e.g. if I'm meeting a friend he'll then refuse to do childcare last minute.

I'm no saint, I've said some horrible things to him too but he's a vile vile bully. The ONLY thing that keeps with with him is my gorgeous dcs and our beautiful house. I wouldn't be able to afford the mortgage on my own and just can't face the thought of leaving and starting again whilst he gets to keep the house.

I'm now beginning to feel permanently anxious when he's in the house as in sick with anxiety because of his temper. Yes I do "nag" him about housework but he's so shockingly messy and dirty I can't keep on top of it all and I get to the end of my teather with it.

He claims to still love me desperately but acts like he hates me, I don't think I love him anymore. He's a good Dad but a shit husband, and now he's got a hold on me because of money, I hate not being independent and not just being able to go.

He's beginning to alienate our friends too with his tempestous tantrummy little outbursts and his self-righteous rage and indignation. We're supposed to be going to centre Parsc in 2 weeks and I'm dreading it as I know he'll just kick off about ANY issue re parenting if we don't do it his (f**kwit no common sense) way.

Our arguments are going to wreck my dcs life. I was looking at the "are you 100% sure your partner would never cheat thread". I'm pretty sure he wouldn't but TBH I don't actually care if he did. I think that says it all really.

have you done any talking to him.
I don't mean in telling him how to do childcare. Have you talked calmly about what is wrong. It sounds to me like a total nightmare and that everything turns into a row, and TBH you sound both a bad as each other when that happens. He sounds like a frustrated tantrummy 2 year old, who has no idea what is doing on and is getting told he is doing it wrong. you are making him feel useless. Sorry, it may well be that he is a bastard. But I can't see anywhere that you have actually tried to sort it out like grown ups. And just re-read and saw that you are a therapist?
If you honestly think you have tried everything, and it can't be saved then good luck in moving on. But from this post it doesn't sound like you have really tried to figure out why he is so unhappy. And I know it's not all about him, and I know you don't deserve to be treated like this and it does sound unbearable. But if you want assurance that leaving him is the right thing to do, then that's what you are going to get on here.
Do you still love him?

If he basically pretends nothing has happened the following day every time (if I'm not misunderstanding you here) then nothing has been resolved and it could all happen again. This isn't a healthy way to run a relationship.

It needs to be discussed. That's why I thought marriage counseling where you have a mediator who helps you to listen to each other and understand each other better was a good idea. It can really help you both change for the better if you got professional help.

If you do want to work on your marriage that is...

Thanks skinsl for your post, very insifgtful I think. I DO think he's unhappy but his rage and anger is all in themoment, although he's irritable a lot of the time. I.e. when we're not arguing he thinks everythings a bed of roses.

Talking to him, God knows I've tried starting off with "look we're both at fault here can we talk about this" to be met with screaming rage, interruptong me, talking over me, shouting me down or just leaving the room. Occassionally if you get him on a good day he will have a proper chat but not often.

Do I love him? I just don't know anymore, sometimes i think I still do, but he's not the person I met and married. I think that's what keeps me here, that he might one day go bcak to the lovely person he used to be. There's no way I'd have put up with this in the eraly days, I'd have been off! I'm not the woman he married either though. We love our dcs but they've ripped us apart, and that's the truth of it .

I also think despite loving my ds so much and sometimes enjoying looking after him I'm missing work and the routine and normality that provides and I hate hate hate having so little money, I'm used to earning my own cash, not asking him for it.

yes, but if it is an abusive relationship then relate won't see them. if it is an abusive relationship, that is. only minx can decide that, not anyone on here. [pompous and unhelpful]

you do need to talk about this, though, minx, but it doesn't sound like, despite your professional expertise, the two of you alone in a room can get anywhere. he's doing all this nice stuff now, on one reading it's to make amends for being a shit on mothers' day, on another it's to prevent you leaving him, perhaps the truth is somewhere in between? have you said anything to him about how profoundly unhappy you are in the relationship?

I'm sorry ladyintheradiator I'm over sensitive and mistook the meaning of your post, I understand it was meant supportively.

TBH I wasn't thinking of you, just 2 other posters in particular. Thank you for explaining.

I will google relate, we can afford it if it's not just me paying for it.

Do you think it's exacerbated by sleep deprivation for both of you? Is it something that might improve as the baby gets older? Did things get better when your first child was no longer a baby?

If so, maybe some sort of interim strategy is needed, and he needs to understand that it wont always be like this and he needs to exercise some self control.

On the other hand, if it's not this, then it sounds like some sort of action is needed pretty urgently... Would he be shocked into change if you told him you were serious about ending it? Maybe agree to counselling? As you say the whole cycle of behaviour thing is just churning round and round otherwise.

but what is it you think that's making him so unhappy and angry? money worries, work worries, does he just not like being a dad or being married to a woman who is a mum?

are you absolutely sure that he wasn't liek this before the kids, some people just don't notice a narcissistic type pre kids because they are reasonably happy to bumble aloing with the partner as the main focus. take that focus away, though, and direct it at children, and all hell breaks loose.

Hi lesinge I try not to be "therapy style" with him for just the reasons you explained earlier! he's not my patient, I don't have to have unconditional positive regard and empathise and reflect everything, besides which I imagine he would find it irritating!

I do however try to be sefl aware but the way he treats me sometimes gets in the way of that and I see red and we end up arguing.

besides which i'm not a marriage counsellor, at work if there's any hint of relational difficulties in the parents wewould refer them to relate.

yes, but have you told him just how unhappy you are, and has he told you what's going on with him? you two used to be friends, only you know whether he was a secret prick before the children came along.

Bloody hell I cannot believe some of the responses on this thread! I have been living like this in the past, started a thread about it, and got loads of brilliant advice and support, book and organisation recommendations, people's experiences, etc. If I had had this mixed response and questioning of my parenting and couple skills (which were already battered beyond belief) I would have slinked back into my shell and stayed living with my now expartner. He threw a bottle at her while she was laid in bed!

minxofmanxunia When you get chance order the Lundy Bancroft book, and google 'the cycle of abuse'. It is the cycle of abuse you are experiencing this morning. Another poster described it to me as dangling a carrot in front of a donkey (harsh analogy but true, and seeing it like this can be very helpful).

I am going to be fairly blunt - you do need to leave him. You and your children deserve better. You will be happy again.

Do some small steps today, take it one day at a time, enjoy him being 'nice' while it lasts but please see it for what it is and don't let it sway you from your decision as you are making the right choice.

Minx, there are horrible stresses that come with babies, for both parents, even if the dad doesn't do an awful lot and a lot of what you say, I can relate to.
I have read a lot on here that relate won't see you if the relationship is abusive. I have a relationship that is quite similar in lots of ways and not once did my counsellor say our relationship was abusive. But most people on here would. It was immensely helpful to have a third person to look at the relationship objectively and DH actually listened, whereas I couldn't get him to listen to me!!
He does sound like he tries occasionally so maybe focus on what he does right! There is no way my DH would have done all that before work for me, even if he was trying to make up for being horrible!!

it may well be that you need to leave him, you might be happier, kids might be better off,but don't do it because people on here tell you to do it, please. You need to feel you have exhausted all avenues, and if you haven't had an impartial 3rd party look at your relationship, all you are seeing is your own pov.
I have honestly stopped posting on here about my relationship because all I got was "leave him" from strangers, with lots of well-meaning and experience, but no experience or relationship is exactly the same, and YOU have to decide if it is worth saving!

i think skins is giving excellent advice here, i hope you can listen to her, minx.

I'm leaving this thread now as it's obviously a "say what OP wants to hear" type but Bitof Fun dont tell me what I can or cannot say as I am perfectly entitled to my opinion and I was simply giving it from the children's perspective. I'm new to this but I can see why Mumsnet has a bad rep. If you re-read my posts there is no argy bargy as I was brought up to placate. Stick to the point BoF without being offensive to people you dont agree with and then eveyone can be heard.

seekingstockingadvice I have googled that and it's very interesting. He has several of the traits of an abusive personalti, including controlling behaviour (not jealousy though) like calling me several times over when I'm out and asking me in detail what went on what I talked about etc when I get back, it's exhausting.

He also was v quick to get involved with me, moved in after a week! (although I let him to be fair), has v unrelaistic expectations of our relationship, want everything to be sweetness and light all the time. if I'm even vaguely irritable because of work stress/lack of sleep it's fireworks from him as I'm under pressure to be this perfect woman.

He's also hypersensitive and does blame shifting for problems and feelings. His brother and Mum do this too. They were all severely emotionally abused by his Dad and his Mum is highly immature and dependent like a tantrummy child herself. Although I do feel sorry for her. She went through s**t from his Dad for 20 years and sometimes when he and his brother are with her I can see them winding her up, thinking it's funny which isn't nice.

he's not cruel though, and v understanding about certain things. If anything he's just so bloody sensitive and over emotional whereas I'm a bit more hard faced. he finds this hard to deal with.

he had to bring himself up because his Dad was a bastard and his Mum although caring and wellmeaning did nothing in the way of structure, routine, boundaries or guidance. ten years ago when I met him I didn't care about all of this because I was madly in love with him and young and foolish. there's no way I'd put op with someone like this if I was to meet him now, older and wiser.

Gosh starting to sound like "he" needs professional private counseling. If he hasn't had professional help to work through things from his childhood its all going to end up being brought into his marriage. Personally I'd rather he broke the cycle now and got help before he damages his kids too and his wife.

I know it takes 2 but that history of his says it all

Not that I'm even remotely knowledgeable about psychology. But that's the way I see it. If he was prepared to get help it would make all the difference but you cannot go on like this as a couple.

Tell him that he needs to agree to counselling or it's a deal breaker? Agree that things will not get better by themselves given what you tell us of his history.

Minx - I totally see where you are coming from having a-previously-abusive-but-now-trying harder-h.
I know how you are feeling now that he has said sorry....
We had 3 good weeks recently which ended on thursday and things are still crap now. The anger I feel at the moment is dis-proportional to the original 'crime' (or maybe not?). I feel he has broken my trust, again, and I hate him for that.
It's the little things that may seem insignificant to others that can trigger a row, but I'm convinced that I am suffering some sort of PTSD. When H looses his temper, all the rows that we have previously had merge in my head and even a minor one can feel awful.
I just wish I knew how things were going to turn out.
I would be wary of finding 'compromises' for his behaviour (i.e., I'll try harder with X so that he wouldn't have a reason to shout) - I did this all the time, and realise now I was giving him justification(s) for acting badly.

Minx, you might find this link useful.

There is a thread on mumsnet where others are having the same life with a narcissist (NPD) as you. I won't say problems, as I don't think you have any problems at all - your Dh however has a lot, and he owns each and every one of them.

You say you and he are crap parents and I think you are wrong. You are a brilliant parent.
You say you have hit your H so you are as bad as he, but NO you were reacting to him and that's a limbic response - you are not violent and abusive, he is.

You are in no way responsible for him and his violence - he threw the bottle at you, not the other way round. He drank five pints, not you.

He stormed off in rage, made you apologise repeatedly to assauge his massive ego, you did none of these things.

And now he's back, cap in hand, like the greeks bearing gifts - you are his narcissistic suply - he knows he f&*kec up, and now he's in an appeasment phase of the abuse cycle.

You say he's not cruel, and yet he and his brother smirked when his dad started to wind up his mum - that lack of empathy is cruelty - he learned this behaviour as young as your children are now - do you want them to be like him? No? well then, you know what you have to do to protect them.

My advise to you?
Detach emotionally, call women's aid, and every other agency available for advice and help.
I used to work with an organisation who did a lot of work with women's aid and they are all lovely women just waiting for a lovely woman like you who wants a better life, to phone them and have a chat about what they can do for you.

May you have the beautiful life you deserve!
May you get restful sleep, and may you never have to feel sick to your stomach with fear again.

Spring is here, time for growth and renewal.
Good luck to you Minxy.

My heart goes out to you when I have read the whole of this thread.

There are some similarities with my marriage (I have recently left the marital home as he wouldn't go - I won't bore you with the many details..)

I just want to say that I left with our two young DC's and we now are relaxed, not feeling anxious all the time, and all decisions are made by me, not worrying about the consequences.

EVERYTHING is better now, not perfect, but we are happy.

Love and strength to you x

OP, that sounds so like my ex - immediate rage every time I acted like anything other than a puppet on a string.

I left my marriage and oh, the relief! It's a lot better to be happy and peaceful in a small house than miserable and scared in a big one.

Definitely read Lundy Bancroft. "Men who hate women" and "The verbally abusive relationship" are also worth reading. This is no way to live.

I'm also shocked at the people here saying that you're both in the wrong. No. He's behaving in a completely unacceptable and abusive way. Abuse isn't justified because you're anything less than a saint yourself (that's "you" in general - I can't really see that you're doing much wrong myself).

Minx, dh used to be like this too. Nothing I did was good enough, if I managed to jump through the hoops he'd set up then he'd just set up more. He would ignore dd until bedtime when she was all nice and snuggled up and half asleep then decide it was a good time to play tickling games with her. When he got bored, after about 20 minutes, he'd tell me to "get her to bloody sleep, fgs". She still finds sleep difficult now and she's 10

I was too weak to leave him, though I knew I should, and that I was in danger of losing myself. I was ill (undiagnosed ms, bad attack) for about 6 years - started during pg. DD's early years were appalling as I tried and failed, tried and failed, and got it in the neck from both dh and his mum.

Both thoroughly undermined me, ignored me; I became a non-person. I was only good for removing the inconveniences of life or making the tea, or providing a shag now and then. Other than that, I was useless, of no account, incompetent, incapable, a burden, waste of space, malingerer etc etc etc.

I started to recover from my attack. I became a bit stronger. I found myself cutting cheese with the knife dh told me I had to use, though I found it hard to hold and suddenly thought - he's not even HERE - I'll use the knife I want to use.

Eventually, I had enough energy and had recovered just enough of myself to tell him that if we didn't go to Relate then it told me he didn't give a shit about our marriage. He immediately agreed to go.

He expected the counsellor to tell him that everything was my fault, I was unreasonable and pathetic. She didn't. One fantastic moment when she told him point blank that the temperature I had my bath water was none of his business!

We are still together. Life is not a bowl of cherries and tbh I think there's more likelihood that I will leave him some time in the future but that is because I am finding it almost impossible to forgive him, to trust him not to do the same again should I have another bad attack, to forgive myself for letting it all happen, and for the effect it may have had on dd (it has had an affect, obviously, but - apart from the sleep issue - I honestly don't know what effect/s).

We get on well enough, and it is still improving. We are united about dd, her welfare, education, emotional life and so on. All in all, it is much better; not ideal, but much much better. A lot of our problems are down to my illness (and I've just been dx with another fatigue-causing one!)

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that if you're like me at all, and need to try every approach before you chuck it in, then making a very strong case - ultimatum, really - for Relate might work on him. How well Relate actually works is then up to you both.

I had to reply to your post about your dream! I used to have these same dreams all the time - first, it was a man I worked with, this was way back in the relationship when I had started to realise things weren't right, but was nowhere near leaving, I woke up and felt guilty about it for days (even though in the dream I had turned the bloke down!)

Then when I was gearing myself up to leave I used to have dreams about 2 men (separately) - my ex (the one I missed despite him being far from perfect) and a friend from college who I never quite got together with.

The ex-boyfriend I also knew had a son (since we had split up) and I used to dream about us meeting up very tentatively in a park with our children and just talking. Or I would go around to his house in the dreams and again conversation would focus only on our children - it was a "safe" subject. But I always woke up feeling supported and like he was willing me to get the strength to leave! I worried in fact that I might contact him when I left - because I knew that we would not have worked anyway - and TBH I was very tempted soon after, but didn't have any way of contacting him, which was probably a good thing. I then had 2 more dreams since I left XP, where I went to his house and we nearly had sex, but then when it came down to it I realised I didn't want to - it felt like a sort of close. And after that, I wasn't interested in contacting him any more anyway. It was just an escape route in my mind, and it helped, a lot. In fact if I saw him I'd probably say thank you though of course he didn't actually do anything in real life!

The other one I used to dream about - well let's just say I have got chatting to him recently and that is nice I am just taking it slowly though, I don't want to put him on a pedestal etc.