Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

Saddest my ex never stopped complaining about his upbringing. He blamed his parents for everything; they were too poor, too religious, too narrow minded, too unambitious, too incompetent - you get the picture.

He resents his father for never having amounted to anything in life. His Dad worked hard all his life but never owned his own house, car, home telephone... He holds his mother in even less regard. She is cold, unworldly, incapable etc.

His biggest hang ups about his childhood are about not being encouraged, ie, told he couldn't sing for his life. As a result of this he once walked out of his staff xmas party as the (typically Irish) sing song session had started and he feared being pressurised into doing a turn. He just upped and left - leaving me sitting there with strangers wondering when he would come back from the loo!

He also has a major problem with the fact that his parents dressed him in a shirt and tie to attend a non uniformed school. A bit old fashioned of them I know, but this seems to have had a damaging effect on him for life.

Any memories of his childhood have always resulted in the belittling of his parents due to their incompetence. He has never become reconciled into accepting that they did the best they could under the circumstances as a lot of Irish families did in the late 70's/early 80's.
I grew up in the UK but had similar complaints about my parents. However the difference is that I see my childhood in the context of the time that was in it. I have learned to forgive my parents their shortcomings and admit openly to loving my Mum despite any hang ups I may have had about my childhood. He, on the other hand, has never forgotten or forgiven his parents (example of his extreme grudge bearing) and I don't think I have ever heard him say that he loves his Mum.

Saddest your only hope now is for minimal contact.
Over the xmas period I tried being friends with my ex and allowed him into the house to see the dc. He repaid me by snooping and as a result has tried to discredit me (quite horribly) on the thread I started last June which led to my finally leaving my h.

He has shown his true self now to, not only me, but half of bloody Ireland.
I was waiting for it all to errupt - it has, and I have survived it.
It freaked me out at first, thinking he was about to reveal the horrible truth about me and everyone who had supported me to leave him would suddenly turn on me. But that didn't happen. And now I feel stronger and more confident that I can take anything he throws at me on. I'm wearing a suit of armour against him now. He can't win.

H reckons he has no childhood memories whatever.

He has a real thing about how his family were working class. Not like anyone else....they were the most working class of all, and they were down trodden and victimised. I always wanted him to watch "Brass" with Timothy West...because his descriptions are comical.

His dad lost his job as a cooper, was offered another one displaying his coopering skills. He wouldn't take it.

His poor mother must have picked up the pieces. I know she worked hard in catering,,,but really that's all. Not the victimised Liverpoo working class redundancy for her...she appears to have just got on with it.

(This working classness, is the only reason I have been given for not being allowed to his dad's house. (his mum died just before we got together) He reckons that it is SO working class that I won't approve. Fucking cheeky bastard making assumptions about my opinions again. Of course he's telling me that HE judges them harshly for their background. He is telling me in that N way, that he is ashamed and embarrassed by his family.)

Can only imagine how pissed off she must have been at her husbands self indulgence. Funny how patterns repeat isn't it.

Rather than face up to his changed work situation....h blamed me and ran away.

Thank god for this thread.

Thank you TRM.

Saddest-You are in the bottom of the pit right now. It is hard. Try to stay focused on the future without him and the relief that envelopes you like a warm Turkish towel when you are not with him.

All this pain over him is for what? Nothing will come of it...he does not care that you hurt, in fact he does it on purpose. He will not be sorry or repentent or ever stop doing it to you until someone else takes your place. You can choose to not be bothered by it anymore.

Yes, you can choose to not be affronted by the rude incivilities of that six year old. Hold up your hand: he will talk to your hand because no other part of you will be listening .

I think the pain is the huge chord still tying you to him in a strange sort of concept way. Cut it and I think you will be on your way to your emotional freedom and the peace of mind that you deserve to have.

Use whatever mechanism you can to not listen, not care, not react, not participate in the interaction anymore.
Bla de bla bla, whatever, hello ipod. Really ignore him, the visitations are time that will pass then it is history.

I know that one needs detox time (I still need it for my sister, ffs) after contact. Do something active to detox, like post here, or journal or dig a new garden or physical work. You could also try making an appointment with yourself to think about all the crap for 30min per day then that's it for the day. Don't think about it again until tomorrow's appointment.

Take care! No suicide, ok? Your lovely dc need you and love you and cherish you.

It's the utter hatred of me....all I did was love him for fuck's sake. I really did...but it was all a great big lie, a fraud, fake.

The N charmer I was engaged to told me that his father was a second son (as he was) and that since his father had a history of employment issues (was fired more than once) that he would have employment issues too. I heard him: he was planning on being unemployed and me be the bread winner. He told me more than once that I would never want to be a sahm, that my career was everything to me- wrong on both counts.

I believe my dh is an excellent dad. He would (when our teens were small) and will (since we have the little one now) take us out for hikes, or to eat at the local diner/lunch counter. He'll take my 15 yo dd 60 miles to the big mall and let her shop by herself if she wants to. He'll spot my son weightlifting in the basement, and has started working out himself.

Got to go..

Toomany is right about the emotional freedom. Saddest you are still attached to him emotionally, but he is not attached to you in the same way!

It is hard, I know, I really do, because you are giving him credit for having the same emotions and behaviours as yourself. Your capacity for empathy means you automatically assume all other humans have that too. But he is never going to feel what you feel. He won't have an epithany moment, an awakening, he will just play you, use you, blame you and punish you.

It will hit home at some point but I think it takes a period of adjustment to get your head around it first. You need to reconcile your old life and relationship with him to the new knowledge you have now.
I did it by posting on here. Shit, I'm still posting on here and still trying to reconcile myself to the truth!

Well I am still here. Still not sure I should be posting on this thread as I think OH's problems come from deep insecurity and paranoia from weed.

We have been apart for nearly three months now. His paranoia has seriously stepped upa gear. Sometimes we can talk normally and I see the ol him, and then I start to imagine how could and should be and I feel really sad and confused. I had sunday afternoon alone as he took the dc. I ironed and my sister visited and then I read my book curled up on the sofa it was bliss. In his world god knows what I really did as he has questioned me over and over about it. Why was the back door open ? How come my sister came over when she knew dc were not there ? Why am I so tired what was I doing ?Why didnt I catch up on some sleep etc etc. Tomorrow I have a meeting in central london and this was met with disbelief. Oh yeah, with a raised eyebrow is what I get. I then turn in to a babbling wreck as I am aware he is trying to catch me out. He seems to remember everything I say and if I get one detail wrong he pulls me up on it. I get so nervous !!

Tonight he appeared to take te girls to their club. He then came back for a cup of tea while they were out. He basically announced that he is going to be away for a while as he " has to make some money ". Illegally of course. He is also going to an all night rave/club on saturday night so wont be available to take the dc on sunday. HE regaled me with " funny " tales of people ( women ) he has been talking to on facebook and how is getting a lot of p.c work out of it.
So now I am angry. He switches back and forth on me and blames it all on me. One minute he is sorry and full of promises. We get on for a few days and then things arent moving quick enough for him ( ie I havent let him back and we havent had sex ) so he he gets annoyed and tried to make me jealous/annoyed or something !! Its like living with a teenager but we are in our late thirties !!!!!!!!!!

I am so sick of myself. Sick of falling for his promises, sick of checking myself all the time and making sure i am not doing anythig that would make me look guilty. Im not even bloody doing anything !! This is the only relationship I have ever had and I think thats the problem !!

I wouldnt mind but he wont even reassure me. When he announced he was going out saturday nght ( which I couldnt care less about ) I said " you would go mad if I went out, butits ok for you " his response was " You do what you want forthebest, its up to you " but looking straight at me and in a way that means " then see what happens ".He didnt say " of course I wouldnt, of course you can go out !! " Am I making sense ??
I know for a fact that if I went out he would never ever believe I hadnt dome anything.
How can I make myself just do it anyway ? How can I break this hold ????????Why dont I just go anyway !!!!!!!!!

Saddest-{{{hugs}}} It is the being lied to that is so disrespectful and degrading and insulting, isn't it? Being so...used. As though you were a consumable product just to be replaced.
Turn your hurt into anger, Saddest. You deserve to be angry, mad as hell.
I hope you can disconnect soon.

Trm, another thing about my dh is that he never criticizes. Not about my deplorable housekeeping (I am getting better), not about anyones' appearance, weight, grades, musical ability...

He is upset with dd for never doing much in the way of chores so...we have delayed her receiving her drivers permit. Still not much in the way of change, teenagers! He doesn't nag, just sat her down and said why-a few examples of behavior that illustrate the point. But no name calling, no dire predictions, no character asassination.

Sometimes he does work long hours or goes on travel. Dd said she didn't know he was gone when he was on travel once. But I think he does try to be present in-the-moment and participate and to know them when he can.

I am attached to the illusion that he created, I know that now.

I thought I was too clued up about abusive relationships to get fooled.

But they are good aren't they?

Turning it on or off depending on who is there.

Waiting till you are pretty much physically trapped. Middle of nowhere with baby and rheumatoid arthritis. Yet I am the one accused of imprisoning him!!!! He accuses me of stalking him too, then complains if I don't take an interest in his day.

AAAAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

When I think of who I was.....good god. I am grieving for her too. I was earning money...had a great reputation in my industry, drove a lovely car, loads of friends, a social life. All now gone. Although it was the twinkling of a social life with the mum's at school that has coincided with this.

I changed my car in January....crime of the century!! It's only a megane, and loads cheaper than the last car. Anyone would have thought I'd bought a top of the range Bentley!!!

My friend at school today said that I should be a private investigator for spotting him hiding round the corner.

I told her no, he is so text book, he is utterly predictable. He is probably bugging me, almost certainly has checked my computer...possibly key logging. He has already hacked into my facebook page.. (the existence of which triggered the final breakdown)

But that is the heartbreak isn't it? That illusion is just that...an illusion

saddest I have that also. I strongly suspect he checks this p.c. I am not allowed a facebook page so when he discovered I had been using one to talk to my sister he went mad. Didnt speak to me for months, still brings it up now. Has basically accused me of having an affair on facebook with erm well an imaginary friend as i dont even have male frends on there ( im not that stupid enough to give him ammunition ). But HE can use it. He can chat to whoever he likes. I dont even know what he has called himself on there as I cant find him but THATS ok !! He recently demanded my sister remove pics from her page of our dc otherwise he would report her . As she is a policewoman she was very worried and angry so took them down. He is paranoid of everyone !

He insists that all this is becuase he loves me. He adores me, he wants me likeno other etc etc. He never says horrible insults to me just suffocates me and never lets me do anything. Doesnt like me to have friends etc. While we have been apart he has been staying with his parents who have allowed him to carry on smoking whereas I had insisted he stop so the apranoia of not knowing what I am doing every day is huge. Sooooo he just makes it up I think.

That sums it up perfectly saddest. I am also attached to the illusion. I am attached to how I wish it " could " be. And becuase that is how he promises me it " will " be I am still trapped becuase I am so desperate to believe.
I think I am getting better though. I can see through it now and I am not so quick to let myself think everything is my fault.

I am a prisoner to what ifs..........

Saddest I was 17 years married to my ex. Prior to marrying him I had a very full life as a single professional living in London.

A year ago I was an overweight, frumpy, downtrodden mother of 3 living on benefits (whilst he held on to a v good salary) with no friends, ambitions or desire to do anything.

It is changing. I never thought I would survive but I have. I lost the weight, I'm buying myself clothes, I'm talkng to people again. I am interested in life, my life, once more.
It won't be an overnight sensation but I am beginning to see the phoenix in me rise up out of the ashes. At the moment it is just an 'interest' in life again. But who knows where I will be in a years time?

Little by little the real me is emerging. She was in a coma for a very long time!
You won't move forward while still emeshed with your h. Detaching yourself is only the first in a lot of steps forward to finding the real you again. Do it though - one baby step at a time.

Toomany I think I see what your h does - he engages with your dc. He gets on to their level and responds from there. I believe my ex only ever 'reacts' to his dc on a level he knows. He plays ball on the street as opposed to the green because his brain is telling him 'I must do something with this child' - he doesn't see beyond the task at hand, he doesn't think about the enjoyment of the activity from the dc point of view.

Although it feels unreal, as though I know I have to go through this.

I remember looking out of my window, saying to myself..."you know you have to get out of this....it's always been wrong...there is no other way forward."

I look out of the same window now, and sometimes feel great, but mostly I feel a void.

I suppose when you have dedicated your thinking to be entirely about someone else, that leaves a huge gap.

That gap must be filled by me, my kids MY CAREER! There I said it. And the world didn't just end.

You,ll get through this saddest, as awful as it is. I probably spent at least a year alternating between a deep dark rage and sobbing my heart out. I have never known rage like it.Eventually i saw a counseller who talked a lot about what he is, why he is , and to think of the experience as a gift , a test of charecter, a pointing out of my poor boundarys and the opportunity to make a better life for myself, and most importantly, to just be me and be loved and to truly know it.

At the time i thought she was talking shit, but the experience has taught me a lot . Would have been better if i could have avoided it, but maybe i needed to know this, about myself, and other people in the world.
The emotional ties are hard to break, and even harder to understand. How is it that we , sensible loveley women miss or even love our abusers?
The mind boggles.

These horrible feelings have a purpose , the horrible things they do have a purpose, they happen and happen until we are prepared to finally see and accept what is under our noses. I was like a defiant child who continued to touch the fire to see if it still burned.
Of course it always did. I too at one point felt suicidal. All these years, wasted ,the years with my dc spent miserable and in tears most days, that happy girl i used to be gone , and for what, a ghost, something that was not real and only existed in my mind.

But theres a purpose i think. I dont expect ill ever ever feel as low and in such pain as i did then, the sexual assaults, the gaslighting, crazy making shit, the put downs, but im still here and everythings ok, in fact, its even better than ok, its great , because IM here, and ive been missing too long .Id forgotton how much i like my own company, how nice i am, and how much my dcs love me, and forgotton all about myself, my freinds , my family ,focusing only on wanker .For the first time in years, i am starting to feel a real sense of peace in myself and i dont say that lightly.

I needed to keep touching the fire for a while, to see if it still burned . I simply couldnt comprehend that someone without any empathy or morals could exist , let alone that i married him.
Eventually, after you get sick of being burned and the inevitable anger at yourself for touching again, you start to realise it really doesnt matter what they are doing, saying, plotting , or why theyre doing it. What matters is how we react to that, the examples we set our dcs and finding our way back.

Saddest the void your feeling , i felt it too, it wasnt him i was missing, it was me.

Saddest, apart from stinker whinging about being pushed off his skateboard and his parents " doing nothing " ( hes still clearly really bitter about it ) he has never ever mentioned his childhood . Most adults have funny stories to tell of their childhoods, or even sad tales, but nothing from stinker .

Have you had legal advice re your ex coming into your home, or is it possible to insist on an arrangement where he takes the dcs out ?
Personally i changed the locks, although as far as i know he never tried to get entry. If i was asked i wouldve said id lost a key, lock broke, and id have changed it regularly.
If you cant do this, how about having freinds come round when hes due ?
You can then all sit in another room, or better still be upstairs " getting ready " for a night out complete with music and giggling.
Hes bullying you really by doing this, im sure the waiting around and rooting through your stuff would constitute harassment .
Have you told anyone in real life ?

Hehe saddest " fucking cheeky bastard " comment. They ARE cheeky bastards. I read through my original thread about stinker the other day. Every other word was Fxxxxxx and i called him every name under the sun and took the piss relentlessly , telling thousands of people on the internet his deepest shamefull secrets . It was great harmless therapy and a huge step in that i no longer felt i had to keep his secrets or be loyal to him , although i didnt realise it at the time.

Ive always meant to say a genuine thank you to you UA, ive name changed a few times but youve always been so supportive and loveley , despite dealing with your own horrible experience.

I logged on one night literally at rock bottom , i truly was considering doing the unthinkable although i didnt state that. There was a loveley message from you offering a virtual drink, stern words regarding blaming myself and the promise of better times. Sometimes things written on here are nothing but words on a screen, sometimes they are everything to someone.

"I was like a defiant child who continued to touch the fire to see if it still burned."

I like that analogy dignified. It's explaining why I kept sticking at my marriage for years. Things would settle into an amicable lull then he'd get pissed off with me. Always something I had said or done/not done.
I kept smoothing things over. Every now and again I'd try to engage him in a conversation to try to put my perspective over to him. I kept bloody trying! And I'd get burnt again.
In the end I gave up. There was no point trying to get him to see things from my point of view, it always ended in a confused and lengthy dialogue where he would point out to me all my failings and I would retreat more confused and guilty then I started.

My sister once told my Mum, of my ex "He confuses you with words". That about sums him up. He talks me into a confused state. Anything valid I would have to say would be dismantled.
He was never violent towards me because he could mess with my mind and disarm me so easily. It is a wonder I was never committed permanently to a psychiatric ward.

Excellent posts, dignified and therealme.

The engaging vs. reacting sums up my N Middle Sister, too I think. There isn't a personal connection there (never was in my whole 48 years), it is her analyzing and judging to embelish her superiority. Everything is always about her, and it goes way beyond her "must have my share of the conversation".

Blow off the lip service (positive or negative). See through it. Glaze over when it is happening, roll your eyes and walk away.

We should all buy ourselves a lovely bouquet of flowers and sign the card "From your friends at Mumsnet".

I would fall for the lengthy discussions every time , always turned into a charecter assasination of me and he would get madder and madder and refuse to acknowledge why i was upset . Id listen assuming that at some point id get the chance to speak.
Umm no, if i attempted to point something out, ( like rape for instance ) i was abusing him. Oh and the shouting over me , refusing to hear anything im saying. Its amazing they refuse to hear your protests but if you say something umm questionable theyre on it in a heartbeat.

Ive got rid of mine and he WILL leave me alone from now on. I was once distraught re sexual abuse and we had a breif conversation about it where he admitted he had done it, he didnt know why, he possibly wanted to dominate me he supposed and he was sorry .Anyway, he shouldnt have but in his defence it wasnt as bad as i was making out and it wasnt as if it happened all the time .

I later told him i had recorded this admission of rape and i also threatened to send it to his parents, boss, freinds, new girlfreind ect. I didnt actually record it but the threat of being exposed was enough for him. They hate to be exposed or threatened.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7IGE58IPgo

Glad to know I helped you dignified. I know what it means, as MN got me through many desperate, desperate times too back in 2008.

We have all changed so much - for the better - through this harmless therapy (good description!)

TRM re other thread.

Dignified - I know what you mean. I am mixed up in those mind-blowing (pointless) 'discussions' still. Had one last night with him. Except, it is not really with him, as he does not acknowledge anything I say. His technique is to respond with a question 'is it?' or 'did I?', taking the p... out of me, and then denying how he has behaved for the marriage ever happened, for example, telling me continuously when I spent years fretting and trying to make a relationship/marriage with him to 'f... off - don't you get the message', and 'I do not wish to 'associate' with you in life' (his words to me), and 'I should never have married you, it was a mistake' (but he didn't get out of it - just liked to torment and punish me that I was nothing but a mistake). Anyway, when I confront him with this kind of thing, he chooses not to hear me, and doesn't care anyway.

At least I 'get the message' now that N's can talk the talk - eg 'I really want this marriage to work out' but that is the limit of how far they can contribute to it - a statement, a few words. That used to do my head in, and still does - the hypocrisy of it all.

And, of course, it is rubbish that he was cruel to me sexually, physically etc.

And I am so sick of being angry all the time now.

I didn't understand for many years that my H has no morals. He has no capacity for guilt. I wonder if this is a reason why he has been a physically abusive man to me and never said sorry (he obviously now states it didn't happen for all those years, and I, in fact, was the perpetrator. I have lost control with him a few times - but even a dog kicked repetitively for years will maybe bite back in the end, completely out of character). There was never a shred of remorse when he used to see what he had done - nothing, and now, I apparently imagined it all and I was and always have been the 'bully'.

No wonder I am in counselling and I too have been at the doctors in the past thinking I am going mad, and I have been told there is nothing wrong with me either.

Dignified - how did you break free? (I am sorry if I have already asked this). I feel worn down again at the moment - so then you think how will I have the energy to get out of this, even though I know I have to.