How do you accept that you won't get an answer to all your questions when you split?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

It's so hard! H is still gone. We have minimal contact now and I am formal with him. I do occasionally ask him why he has thrown us all away so easily when he promised he would try to win us back (and I know I shouldn't), he just shrugs and looks sad.

I don't want to write the whole back story, so here's the short version:- H depressed for 3 years, took everything, gave nothing, became emotionally abusive, broke all his promises, broke my heart, I asked him to move out as it was hurting all of us too much. Things are easier now. Lonely, but safe.

But I want to know how he can be normal with everyone else and not with me.

I miss my best friend

And he's gone. And I want to know why he could choose to be the person he is.

He's been even worse since he moved out.

How do I move on from the "But why?"

I know time is the answer, and there is no other, but it's so unfair. My thoughts have revolved around his feelings for 3 years with no energy spare for my own. I'm beginning to think of me again. Bit by bit. But then I get caught back in the 'why?' and I feel drawn back in.

Hello all!

Crunch- keep going on the mantra - don't worry if it sounds arrogant, its just for you!
I'm sorry he's making you doubt yourself.

Things are ok here, although the situation is starting to tell on DS who is after his milk all the time and reassurance that I am still there. I know he'll get used to it, and its better to get things settled before the baby comes but it is hard in the meantime.

SWHN, don't sign anything (I know you know that!). If he wants an amicable split then he can give you everything! It is lonely in the evenings. But there are good points too.

Miaow, I know it's hard but you are being an amazing mum, putting your DS's needs first. It's incredible how strong and caring you are being.

As for me. I'm struggling. Really struggling. I can feel depression sneaking in. I've got my first apt with my counselor next week, but no childcare for DC3. I'm hoping a friend will come to the rescue but I haven't even asked anyone. At first I though H could do it, but now I don't want him to know I'm going to the counselor incase he sees that as confirmation that I'm crazy and he's sane.

And here's the really stupid thing all I want to do is call him and tell him I love him. All I want to do is hold him and never let him go. He's shown he can't treat me with respect at the moment (for whatever reason) but I still want him

I'm finding it really hard not to collapse. My self-esteem is shot. I can't seem to drag myself back up.

This is not good. Any words of encouragement greatly appreciated.

oh crunch, I wish I knew what to say!

I see getting counselling as a sign that I am taking control of things rather than being out of control. I'd rather not ask H to watch DS while I'm doing things like that (although I think he can take as much time as I need for pregnancy related appointments!)

I have found friends have been brilliant about trying to help me adjust to my new situation. When I go to my counselling tomorrow, DS's best friend's mum is having him (we normally have lunch together then so she'll just have to run round after 2 of the terrors!). Its not for too long, but you do need to actually just come out and ask! I hated doing that before but I am getting more confident about it.

Have a big hug anyway.

Thanks Miaow

I felt so positive not long ago. Even last week I at least felt like I was a valuable person in my own right. And now I'm feeling like a careerless loser (moved away from my work for H's when pregnant with DC2 and although I've had jobs since then, no career).

Not sure what I've got going for me really. I have lovely children, but in myself I'm feeling rubbish

Just bear in mind that because the STBXH says that going to counselling proves you're mad, does not make it so. You may not want him to know because he'll make a big thing of it, fair enough, but nobody reasonable will agree with him. And social services certainly wouldn't, if it got that far. Getting help is sensible.

Drives you crazy, doesn't it, when the person you're used to going to for comfort is the person you now need comforting from. All your instinct and habit tell you to run to him as your safe place, but he's now the enemy; it's so weird, no wonder your head spins helplessly. You can do this, you will do this, but for a while it's going to be so hard. So get all the help you can, and ignore anyone who sneers at you. It is in his interests that you should feel isolated and helpless because then he pulls all the strings. Just keep remembering that you cannot trust him.

Annie, he hasn't said it does. He goes himself. I'm just worried about giving him any ammunition to support his "ideas". He would probably just be supportive about it. But I can't risk that.

I can't trust him. I know that too. He's shown in the last few days that when given the opportunity to be nice or nasty, he can only maintain the nice in short bursts and there's always going to be a price.

He went to the GP yesterday and has changed his ADs. There's a traitorous part of me that says, "Maybe this will fix things". But it still doesn't excuse what he's done

I still hope this will resolve itself and that we can be together. His MH issues muddy the water for me (and they are real, not just a ploy to manipulate me).

But what it comes down to is that he is bad for me at the moment. Being around him hurts me. I need to distance myself. If he improves then great, but I shouldn't be waiting for it.

Just can't cope with any tiny knock at the moment.

Crunch

I totally agree with Miaow. I don?t see any harm/shame in your H knowing that you are going to counselling. It is 100% a sign of taking control and I promise you it will help. It?s a really positive step and I think you will find it a relief ? particularly if , as you say you are feeling signs of depression creeping in.

At first I mainly used the sessions to vent, cry etc as my H leaving was consuming me 24 hours a day so it felt very cathartic to have a whole ?selfish? hour just to let it all out - I have friends but I sometimes felt that I was becoming a stuck record whereas that?s exactly what the counsellor is there for- Also I found it very useful to be able to ?fall apart? in an environment away from DD. I found at first she was mainly doing a lot of listening and did question the value of it once or twice in the early days but I think that was just her getting to know me and how my mind works. Over the last month I have found that we have started to move away from it all being about him and more towards me . You have to get to the bottom of the childhood stuff in order to make sense of what is going on today... so at the moment we are talking about why I was prepared to be in a relationship that was so controlling for so long (all seems to boil down to self esteem issues from c/hood)

Anyway 2 things...... 1 is that I would not advise asking DH to baby sit ? not because it?s a secret because If you are anything like me you will often feel quite emotional and strung out after a session and the last thing you need hanging over you is seeing him on your return. The other thing I would say is just make use of your friends, neighbours etc. People are surprisingly helpful when they know of your situation and my neighbour baby sits for me every Wednesday night - Its only for an hour and a half and she is often quite pleased to have the time to herself. Just bite the bullet and ask ? people will soon tell you if they can?t and your self preservation is too important.

Be strong Crunch. I know EXACTLY what you mean about just wanting to call hi and tell him your love him at times. I have days like that too but try and imagine yourself calling him, saying that and predicted what he would say back to you and how you would feel afterwards... that?s what I do and it?s enough to stop me every time. DISTANCE DISTANCE DISTANCE (Physical - as much a possible and Emotional ? harder but the counselling should really start to help. Keep strong Crunch

Thanks looking, that was a really good post.

I can tell you exactly what H would say. He'd say, "I love you too! I'll do anything to come home. You mean the world to me! I take full responsibility for everything that happened." then there'd be a pause (maybe even as long as a day) before the added, "But I don't see why I should be the only one who has to change. I don't agree that I'm the only one responsible for this. Why is it ok for you to blame me and not for me to blame you? I find it hard to see myself as 'abusive' and you as my 'victim'. etc etc etc"

Because I've had this conversation before. A hundred times. And he can't accept what he has done. But it does feel nice at first. Being told I'm loved and he's sorry. It just doesn't get as far as being translated into actions

lookingahead has said everything I would have - excellent points, especially the one about not seeing your H the minute you get back from counselling - apart from anything else, he might ask you how it had gone (really baaaaaad idea) or he might not ask you at all (which would hurt you). Best avoid altogether.

You are allowed to have bad days; they will continue to pop up and bite you in the bum for some time and the trick is to recognise them for what they are and not give into them and they will get fewer and farther between.

I too remember the longing for him to come back and comfort me, give me a hug and make it all right again - but it's not going to happen like that. You're wishing for the past - it's gone. But - one day you will probably get something great again and you need to be ready for it, so keep looking to the future

Thanks TW

I got through yesterday without contacting him. I've decided to tick off the days that I manage and see it as a real achievement. He's got the DCs tonight, so I'll have to see him briefly, but that's ok. I won't invite him in!

I've arranged a babysitter for next week's session, so that's another positive. I won't have to see him for a couple of days after, either, so it's good timing.

One day at a time...

Ok so I should follow my own advice in future. H dropped DD home last night... Have got into the habit of him putting her to bed which am considering stopping as she always asks where he has gone in the morning. Anyway got into a conversation that lasted about 2 hours that has left me in a really bad way ? hardly slept ? in tears on the way into work etc ? a huge step back ... He doesn?t seem to be able to make his mind up about what he wants.

I told him I could no longer afford to be in limbo and that have to look forward (He suggested starting to spend some time together - I asked what for - fair enough question I thought)- Transpires I think he just wanted to see how it goes and see if we could build some sort of relationship for the sake of DD ? And in that time something may or may not grow from there. In response to that I told him that as far as I am concerned, we are either completely over for good - Divorce etc or we start spending some time together in order to make it work.

I told him that I am not able to be ?friends? with him - to ease his guilt or simply just to get on - he can?t have it both ways. Anyway I was then told I was pressurizing him and giving him ultimatums ? I thought I was just being quite clear about what I felt able or not able to do. I am now in pieces and feel as if I have taken a huge step back. It feels as if I have given him some power back even though all I was doing was telling him what I wanted. (found myself texting him this morning at 6.30 ? something I have managed not to do for ages. I have backed off completely the last month or so.. maybe the reason I was feeling better was because I subconsciously hoped /thought this would make him realise what he has walked out on .

He was saying things like ?Look - one thing that we have to face up to is the fact that you are having this baby and this situation is a complete mess? ? WTF ? I am the one who has been left behind to cope with our DD whilst 51/2 months pregnant and working full time ? How dare he suggest that I am sticking my head in the sand and not facing up to things.. I am furious, hurt, wishing for the past, (yes at you say TW that is gone but it?s so hard to accept) and feeling really sh*t. I MUST not let myself get into that kind of conversation with him again and MUST accept it?s over.... gutted..

Hey, I got into one just last week that I regret. It's so easy to be drawn in. You've spent years trying to talk things over, treating H as if he were a rational human being (in the teeth of the evidence!), now after quite a short time you have to unlearn all that. You have every right to feel gutted, it's a mean game he's playing; but forgive yourself for being suckered, learn from it, and work up some techniques for keeping your distance next time.

You do not need to "build a relationship for the sake of DD". Completely unnecessary. You need to be civilised and sensible about your dealings with each other as far as they affect her, of course, but that isn't a relationship, any more than you have a "relationship" with the newsagent or the checkout girl at the supermarket (unless you have a very tasty newsagent). Perhaps a more apt comparison is your child's teacher who you need to discuss things with, but you don't live in his/her pocket or have any contact in a non-school context. You've got to be, dare I say, professional about this - professional parents. Start letting the emotions take over (again) and it can all get very nasty and muddled very quickly. He is being so very unfair sending mixed messages - either deliberately mixed or, to give him the benefit of the doubt, just clumsy.

I'm afraid I lol'd a little bit at "one thing that we have to face up to is the fact that you are having this baby" - er yeah, you keep forgetting you have a baby growing inside you, don't you? It's so easy for little things like that to slip one's mind

Yes. You are right Annie. It's scary how quickly you can fall back.. I could have written Crunch's original post on this thread this morning after really feeling I was moving on. Every time I see him it's a horrible reminder of what I, my DD and soon to be DS have lost and it kills me every time... whereas I actually thought I was able to start detaching and just see him as the father of my children. It's like he dangles the carrot and then whips it away . I thought I was growing immune and toughening up - not letting myself be sucked in but if I am being really honest I am still petrified and deep down was hoping for the switch to flick in his head. Maybe I am being too hard on myself. Maybe I am moving on and this is just a set back but whatever it is - it is a horrble feeling. am at work and on verge of tears sitting at my desk . I hate the fact that he still seems to have this control over me when actually why should I want someone who...

cheated on me, treated me like sh*t for the last year of our marriage, walked out on his DD who he claims to love so much ("I didn't walk out on her, I walked out on you") , Didn't go to any real length to try and save our marriage, wasn't clear with me about not wanting another DC and said 'This changes nothing' when I told him I was a pregnant 2 weeks after he walked out.

I have to keep reminding myself that I am worth more than all of this but its the H that I had prior to all of this that I miss. So hard to accept it's gone.

Annie, very clearly put.

Lookingahead, in some ways it's a relief to know that it's not just me! Although I wouldn't wish the confusion that comes with it on anyone! You are not playing games, you are being clear with him that you want all or nothing. When H and I split briefly last year he even said the classic line, "I want to be with you, but only for the good bits"! You can imagine how well that went down.

One consolation is that a month ago I would have spent a lot longer feeling rubbish. The emotions when I engage him are still the same and still just as strong, but the fallout doesn't last as long IYSWIM. So today I'm feeling stronger. Everyday I don't contact him makes me feel stronger.

As TW said in an earlier post if H were to change and want me then he would chase me. It's not like I'd miss that window because I don't call him. So the best thing to do is to keep going, respond about practical things if he contacts me (not that he has) and work on building up myself.

It's not easy. I miss my H too. I still hope he'll "wake up" but I have to stop chasing it.

And I've got to laugh at your ex's idiotic comment about the baby too! I love the idea that you could forget, like he's the one putting the baby's needs first! Ridiculous little man!

lookingahead, what a mean git he is to have said that to you. As Annie said, you don't "build a relationship for the sake of DD" - you do it because you want to be with each other. If he can't decide that he wants to be with you for YOU then fuck him. Well, not literally of course!

Seriously though, just how good does this man think he is, that you would be willing to take him back at any price?? No evidence of contrition, no evidence that he thinks he had anything to do with this "mess" - arsewipe nobend! Remember that and it will help. Get angry on your own behalf, and on your DCn's behalves as well, because he has thrown it all away out of sheer selfishness and now it is somehow your fault, and you're the one being unreasonable about things?? Twat.

This switch - I do know what you mean about it - but give it up. He has way too much arrogance left in him for it to happen. When he comes crawling on his hands and knees, begging your forgiveness for the idiotic, cruel things he has done, THEN you can think the switch has been thrown and not until.

oh looking, that sounds horrible. It really helps to see other people's experiences, as it makes me feel stronger about my own choices (mostly). I asked H to stop emailing me personal stuff, and that if we were ready to talk, we were ready for relate, because I don't want to get in to conversations that are going to give me false hope.

I think I'm still secretly waiting for that switch too - with the one I want, H will suddenly realise that we're both to blame for all this, and commit to both of us working on things. Don't think its gonna happen, but you never know - and that's the tough one.

I think its easy for them not to think about the baby, as there's nothing real there for them to see and feel. I accused H of not caring the other day (I actually think its me he doesn't care about and that he'll love the baby when it comes, but he doesn't know how to deal with all this)

I've opened myself up for trouble this weekend. Asked H to come and put the bunk beds back up for my nieces this weekend, and offered to dinner in return, because I want to seem fair, and because I think DS would love it. I hope I can stay strong and keep things impersonal as they have been. I'm sure I can think of lots of things that DS has been up to to talk about.

TW: Yes as ever you speak sense - especially about him taking responsibility for this. I broke another of me 'rules' today and emailed him a list of about 15 things that I felt he has failed to take ANY responsibility for - all starting with 'why did you.......' - I wasn't looking for any answers and maybe I was on shaky ground allowing my head to be filled with him rather than looking after myself but it just felt like it was something I had to do to have the last word rightly or wrongly.. I think he is so clever when it comes to one on one conversations and I get so sucked in I never get my point across so sending an email with everything I wanted to say on it seemed like the only way to say my piece so that has left me feeling both like I have let myself down and pleased that I have had my say at the same time.

Yep I think I have to give up on the switch idea. He is not the person I fell in love with and married - that one is long gone and I could not be with the person that has replaced him anyway.

CMM - you are brave - I am at the stage where I would rather ask someone else to help me (or pay them) if I need a bloke job to be done as i hate feeling like I need something from him - but you obviously have a different kind of relationship. As for dinner together - I find it easyish to grin and pretend all is ok (probably with over-emphasised cheeriness and enthusiasm) when we are all in the same room as DD but i find the second it's just the 2 of us really tough. You are at a different stage to us so if you feel you can handle it mentally then do it - good luck x

Miaow good luck this weekend. Just try to keep it all as formal as possible. And if he is unreasonable or hurtful you can reserve the right to ask him to leave your home.

lookingahead, as long as all you expect in return are excuses and him minimising everything then don't beat yourself up. It's unlikely to do any good, but it's hard if you feel like you haven't had the chance to get your points across. At least now you can say to yourself that you have said all you needed to, and can walk away without worrying that there's something left unsaid.

I'm feeling both stronger and weaker. I still hope. That's my weakness. But I haven't initiated any contact with H since Sunday. I have replied to practical enquiries, but kept replies short and to the point. I think the longer I can keep this up the easier it will get.

And yes, even the annoying hopeful part of me that says "It might not be over!" can see the benefit of him learning that I'm not chasing him anymore.

At least all the voices in my head are agreed on what I should do, even if they can't agree on why I'm doing it

Maybe I am the crazy one after all

well done crunch. I am still on a backward slide but I am hoping (praying) it is down to a bad week/pregnancy hormones rather than 'this is the way I am now'.

In my head 10 minutes ago it seemed like a feasible idea for me to ask him to move back in when the baby comes to help me out - Omg i mean what a ridiculous idea but an indication of how all over the place I am right now.

I am dreading him having DD this weekend (only second weekend so not used to it atall) but a part of me is looking forward to being able to fall apart, cry myself dry of tears (hopefully) and just sit still for a few hours.

I need to snap out of this and start looking at the positives again . So self pitying but all I can think of right now in my negative mood all I can see is a life of loneliness, me bedraggled ? working full time to support 2 kids who I never see, breaking my neck to get them to the childminders in the morning, being trapped in my house because I can?t get a mortgage of my own, living in poverty, lonely and sad. I know that I haven?t felt like this all the time so I guess I know its just a state of mind thing but Its just so DEPRESSING.

I just read that back and I sound so ungrateful - I am healthy, have lots of friends, I like my house and I am so lucky to have 1 soon to be 2 DCs

MUST SNAP OUT OF IT

lookingahead, I think it's so easy to feel sorry fo yourself. Mainly because you have every right to! But don't beat yourself up for it either. Before things get better you have to let yourself feel what you're feeling in reaction to a crappy situation.

On good days I think I'll cope, I think I can afford to do all this (even if we have to sell the house and get somewhere smaller - and it's already pretty small!), I won't be alone forever, I can have a social life while he has the DCs, I'm starting to think about me and what I want, and the future doesn't look so bad.

On bad days I feel like it's not fair to go from 'comfortable' to watching every penny (especially since we'd only been comfortable for about 6 months!), the evenings are lonely, the DCs miss their dad and I have to cope with the fallout, I don't have anyone to chat to about my day, I've got no career because I left mine behind to move for his when pregnant with DC2 and then gave up my teacher training when he had a breakdown, I'm getting older, who'll want a mum of 3?

So it's all swings and roundabouts. Which of the above is true? The factual things are all true, the worries are all potential and depend on how I'm thinking about things. So I should ignore them. But it's not easy.

We're all feeling the same. Confused and alone and pushed to one side. But it won't last forever. It won't.

Hey crunch

funny isn't it ? Had a friend round for dinner... managed to get angry and now am feeling so much better.phew I hope I have a few day's grace (err anger) before sinking again. Had a glass of white - maybe that helped....

Its so true what you say - the factual things are all true but it can vary so much from day to day how you see your situation. Anger is good I think but too much of it and I find myself despairing. I look at the situation he has left is in and fail to see 1 positive. the money, loneliness, the job of bringing up DCs by yourself , DC's not having the family life we all hoped for ...not to mention the rejection and emotional fall out from this. We didn't ask for any or it and got all of it.

We have to keep believing that things WILL get better, that it's HIS loss re the DCs (I actually already believe this one), that things happen for a reason and in Karma oh and that I am secretly glad that I won't be the only one who will be eternally f*cked financially!

How's everyone doing today? Feeling positive?

I've got a busy weekend so ought to get out of bed! Freezer defrosted so having to cook up a load of meat to go back in as meals. It'll be useful in the long run though Also want to go into work so I don't have to go there where H is there!

Hello everyone. Is there anyone about to chat. H has the DCs and I'm not doing so well.

Anyone got a kind word for an old fool?

will an old friend do ya, crunchy ?

why do you think you are you an old fool ?

I don't think you are

Always good to see you AnyFucker.

I'm a complete twat.

You'd be very disappointed in me.