How do you accept that you won't get an answer to all your questions when you split?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

It's so hard! H is still gone. We have minimal contact now and I am formal with him. I do occasionally ask him why he has thrown us all away so easily when he promised he would try to win us back (and I know I shouldn't), he just shrugs and looks sad.

I don't want to write the whole back story, so here's the short version:- H depressed for 3 years, took everything, gave nothing, became emotionally abusive, broke all his promises, broke my heart, I asked him to move out as it was hurting all of us too much. Things are easier now. Lonely, but safe.

But I want to know how he can be normal with everyone else and not with me.

I miss my best friend

And he's gone. And I want to know why he could choose to be the person he is.

He's been even worse since he moved out.

How do I move on from the "But why?"

I know time is the answer, and there is no other, but it's so unfair. My thoughts have revolved around his feelings for 3 years with no energy spare for my own. I'm beginning to think of me again. Bit by bit. But then I get caught back in the 'why?' and I feel drawn back in.

I'm going through the same thing too though a little further down the line as we split up in the summer. To start with I felt great, as if a whole weight had been lifted.

As the days got shorter and we approached Christmas (never a good time for me) I went downhill. I felt so angry, frustrated etc. We're being good friends for the sake of the children but god it's so difficult sometimes. It's not helped by the number of women who have taken it upon themselves to 'look after' the poor thing. I'm left with 90% of the work and yet he needs the support - work that one out!

Eventually I realised that he's not being a good friend to me - he's not interested in what I'm up to or how I feel or any of the things that friends do. I had a couple of really old friends contact me out of the blue and that brought it all into sharp focus.

He's not my friend, more of an acquaintance I've known for a very long time. He's the equivalent of the mum at school who I talk to because we see each other every day but don't want to get to know any better for whatever reason. I don't give anything and I don't expect anything back.

The one thing that has helped is that the DCs think I've been better since we split, which surprised me as I was in a pretty bad place over Christmas. It does give some perspective on it all.

At the moment, I do feel like I can see that my ex is not the person I married. I don't have answers but I have to hang on to what I know about what went on. On a bad day I mind terribly that he does not take any responsibility and is oh so keen to blame me. On a good day I know that it doesn't matter how he sees it, I did everything I could to save our marriage including (almost) sacrificing myself. And that has to be enough. If he wants to blame me fine. It doesn't change who I am.

Annie - its a very comforting thought. I'm not sure I can make myself believe it yet, but its early days.

One good side of this is that it is making me think more about my relationships with other people - trying to be more like the person I want to be with them, and sod the H.

Oh and thanks - TV license wasn't in my budget!

HTH

I expect you've got the house insurance under another "heading", haven't you? Just in case you haven't already thought of it, I thought I'd mention it.

Yep, got the house insurance, cos it's one of the few things I still deal with and I renewed it recently. And that one's in my name.

Trying to decide what to do about bills - now thinking it would be easier to get H's name taken off the joint account as most of the bills there are for the house, but I think that's a step too far atm. My benefits / wages will cover my expenses and for the moment he can cover the house stuff. (we are very lucky to have a tiny mortgage). Will have to check figures now.

I slept, waking every couple of hours but not staying awake, since about 9 last night. That's such a massive improvement. If I can do a few more nights like that I might start to feel human again! And I ate yesterday, including fruit!!!

Yay me!

Good going, CMM.

Have you got your own bank account as well as the joint one? Cos if not, get one asap. Start putting your wages and benefits into that acct instead of the joint acct and transferring the bills across to your sole acct; or transfer the money FOR the bills from your sole acct to the joint as and when needed.

I wouldn't think your H will do anything dodgy but it's as well to be safe than sorry.

I do have an account of my own, and an ISA with a bit of savings. I am going to make sure that I get some of our 'instant access' savings moved too (although not half as H will have to pay deposit and buy things for his place etc, and I want to be fair)

I think I will get all my stuff paid in to my account as I get them sorted and transfer the money into the joint one for the moment. I think I will suggest to H that it stays joint and that all his new bills come out of a new account for him and we leave this one for the house. We can then work out how much he/I need to transfer monthly (this will change when I go on maternity leave and get less money etc, but its complicated as it is our business!)

Today I have been lounging around in bed while updating my budget (trying to make it realistic as my benefits will not cover what H's bills are going to be, so there will need to be cutbacks unfortunately, but I think they are doable). I've also painted my nails and just had a long relaxing bath, reading my 'Toxic Parents' book.

H has been popping in and out but has generally kept out of the way. I have resisted the urge to get up because I know that's what he would expect. Its my life now, and if I want to lounge around in bed half the day, I deserve it. He's taken DS to a farm park today (he drives, I don't - guess who's going to be doing all the fun stuff ) so he will be out lateish. I suspect he hasn't gone alone, but I'm not going to start interrogating him. If he tells me I will consider that a communication step forward.

Trying to decide what to do with the rest of the day. Probably an online shop and a bit of lunch here, then maybe sorting out some pans etc for him. Or towels and duvet covers etc. I think I'd rather do it myself and know what he's taking. We don't want to waste any money.

It's been a month since he moved out.

One month. One month in which he has promised to make everything better, begged me to let him come home, told me he loves me more than anything and can't live without me.

One month when he has stood me up or been late for every opportunity I have given him. One month in which I have begged him to talk to me, to respond to what I have to say, but he says nothing. One month in which he has blamed me for every aspect of everything whilst telling me it's all his fault.

One month. And I still want him back the way he was. And I still know if he gave me any reason to trust in him (no matter how small) I would leap on it and hold it up as "proof" that things will be ok. One month and I'm still an idiot

Today, today is a bad day. Tomorrow will be better.

ah sweetie, I remember that too. It will pass, it will. You are not an idiot - you have hope - that's what people do to keep themselves sane. Your hope is understandable - after all, people do get back together and make it work - but I think it is probably misplaced.

People who really want to make things work don't just say they want to, they do something about it. Your H is all talk and no trousers, as my Dad would say. He is paying lipservice to the idea of making it work whilst putting no actual effort into it - thus showing that he has nothing genuine to offer you.

Of course you miss the way he was - the thing you have to work towards realising is that that person is only a concept of who you think he was and he doesn't seem to be that person any more.

I had a day when my ex phoned just before I was going to a friend's for the weekend, 2-3m after he left - he sounded sad, he seemed to be thinking he might have made a mistake, the wrong decision. My spirits soared - I had a great weekend, despite thinking "don't get too excited", I couldn't help it. Then on the Monday I phoned him to say I was back and got a full on cold-shower effect - total brush-off, he was in the car with the OW going shopping, couldn't talk, wasn't interested. Oh, I plummeted, that was one of the worst days. I never let his lies/confusion get to me again after that.

(((hugs))) to you lovey - you will feel better tomorrow.

Thanks thumbwitch. Some days I feel being on my own is ok, others I just feel the lonliness and can't stop thinking about the companionship of it all and how close and loving we were.

It's not him now. I know that. But I still hope that that man will walk back through my door.

It's not helped by the mental health issues. Yes his treatment of me is inexcusable and can't be blamed on the MH, but if he wasn't so depressed maybe he'd be less self-centred That maybe his inability to follow through is a symptom.

Then I move on to the fact that whether or not it's a symptom, it's an aspect that I will not live with anymore

Don't worry I'm pretty sure this will pass. I don't spend as much time obsessing now.

Bloody hope!

And you clearly lost a real catch with your ex

Tell me about it!
Took a while to see it but I'm almost embarrassed I stayed with him so long now! It was one of those scenarios where friends daren't tell you what they thought of him while you're together but when he was gone it was very interesting what came out! Not hat he was bad, just lots of my friends didn't like him for various reasons (the classics were that he was too much of a poser and too nerdy, if they can be imagined to go together). I never realised how much he limited my social life until he left and it got a lot better!

A nerdy poser? Definitely a terrible loss!

crunch - I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. I know all of those feelings and my H doesn't have a drink problem, or any diagnosed mental health issues - he's certainly not depressed. I was having one yesterday, had a bad night last night but I've taken DS to the park with a friend this morning, then we went for a cup of tea and now DS is asleep on the sofa so I get a bit of a break.

Today, my something good will be to make biscuits with DS. Just got to go and find a recipe.

CM thanks. Save me a biscuit

H doesn't have a drinking problem as such, just gets nasty when he drinks so agreed to stop drinking.

So... my bad day? Got worse. I made the mistake of agreeing to talk when he brought the DCs back. He's not himself at all Very caught up in himself. Says everything hurts too much. Can't even begin to do anything because of the pain. Can't cope with me "berating him" (for that read "stating the things he has done"), oh but it's still, "All his fault".

It's like talking to a wall. It's really not him. I know it's not my place to worry anymore but he's odd even for him.

I spoke to some mutual friends afterwards, no one's seen or spoken to him in a couple of weeks.

I know that he's wallowing, I know that he's choosing to do this to himself, but he is under a GP for severe clinical depression and has tried to do some pretty drastic things to himself in the past (and that's when things were ok between us).

But there's nothing I can do. I told him that if he's feeling this much pain he should get to his GP. I've asked friends to call him and talk to him.

I can't get involved. I'm not his crutch anymore. He can't know that I'm helping. But he's not a well man.

He's so lost. And it is all his fault, but that doesn't mean the pain he's feeling isn't real.

Not sure why I'm posting. I'm not getting drawn in, I'm kind of stepping back and thrusting other people in his direction. I hope that's the right thing to do. I think I need to post to keep me from contacting him directly.

He's fine when the children are there. But he seems to just shut off when they're gone.

Oh god, another kick in the teeth.

I thought that H might have gone to the farm park with DS with other people yesterday, but I put it out of my head telling myself I was being paranoid, but he's just put the photos of the trip up on facebook.

Turns out he's taken our friend and her kids and not told me anything about it. She hasn't texted me in days really (although I know she has her own stuff going on) and after them going to the pub together I am just completely in shreds.

She was supposed to be my support. She is supposed to be my birth partner, the one who was going to help me when things with the the baby are tough. But how can things be the same if she is going out and doing stuff with him all the time. How can I talk to her knowing that he's telling her stuff? You just can't be in the middle of these things, but that's where she's put herself.

I know she'll say that she can support both of us, but how can you do that? How can she have the time for a start. I don't know whether she just thinks he is hurting too or if what he's told her has made her think badly of me, but I'm just a mess about it all. And she's a mumsnetter so she might come along and read this but I've just got to get it out somewhere.

I've just sat on the kitchen floor and sobbed, tried to eat dinner, failed and just walked away to hide. H noticed I was unhappy and started telling me crap about visiting his sister today, including that she had given him a toaster - meaning he's told her he's going. And his family already hate me so I bet that was a good bitching session.

I just feel like he's slowly taking everything away from me. He's taken himself, one of the most important things in my life, and now he's taken the only person I came anywhere near close to trusting with my feelings. Right now I'm feeling that for her to want to spend time with him like that must mean that I really am a horrible person and that I have done enough to have deserved this to happen to me.

What do you do when you have nobody but mumsnet? The one other person I can talk to does help, but we always have our kids with us and I can't break down in front of her like I need to sometimes. She helps me stay up but I can't get stuff out properly, to try to clear my head.

I was having such a positive day - I was having bad thoughts but really managing to put them aside and spend some good time with DS, and now its all gone and I'm a complete mess again. I keep going over everything I've done during our marriage, and realising that I wasn't always a good wife or a nice person, but I can't see that it was enough to make him feel like this - to be so utterly uncaring. I'm blaming myself for his failings too - for his not being able to communicate with me, and I know that's wrong but it just feels like I should have been able to do something. I know I should have done something to get myself sorted out earlier, and that its taken this to make me really look at myself, but although I don't like everything I see, I just don't see a person who could inspire this sort of apathy.

I am a mess tonight.

Oh Miaow I'm so sorry you're feeling so crap.

Stop trying to work out what it is you've done wrong. We're all stupid and selfish in relationships sometimes, but isolated things are not enough to explain it all away. We all have standard things we argue about in the background (toilet seat/toothpaste lid/washing up, take your pick) but they don't explain the breakdown of a relationship. It's so easy to focus on something and make it enormous in the light of what is happening.

I think you need to talk to your friend. I can't imagine she thought for one second that you didnt know that she was going to be there. You need to explain to her how alone you are feeling. If she's going to be your birth partner you must be really close. Please talk to her. I have mutual friends with H who see both of us. Especially before he'd actually moved out. She may be trying to get him to get his act together. You won't know unless you talk to her.

If you really are that isolated (and I'm about the same so I understand it) then please try to sort things with her.

Are you ok, Miaow?

I will be ok. I know H doesn't tell me things that he thinks will upset me but it hurts that he didn't mention it.

I can't help blaming myself. I'm thinking about long term behaviours rather than individual things. I'm seeing stuff I've done that mirrors what my mother did and blaming myself for not going to counselling sooner. I think its important to know what I need to look at in my counselling and try to change for myself, but looking at it all makes me wonder what it was like to live with me. I wonder if I really was that bad and I know it won't help but it just goes round and round.

I don't feel like I can talk to her at the moment because she had some really bad stuff happen at work and I don't feel like I can burden her at the moment. And I know I won't be able to not be upset about it so I've just been leaving it - waiting for her to get in touch with me when she's ready. That and the fact that I clearly have such a low opinion of myself that I don't feel able to ask for people's time. They have lives too, and I can't impose. I've pushed people away with neediness in the past (when I was a teenager) and I am very very scared of doing the same again - because then I literally ended up with nobody for some time.

Its just so hard that I was doing so well today and then one little thing and I come crashing down. I feel stupid, and I feel like I should be able to deal with this better even though I know in my head that I should be able to just let myself feel sad - that I shouldn't have to be able to cope, to do everything.

Miaow just hold on to the fact that you were doing well. This is just a glitch, a bad moment, but you know you can do this.

I'm willing to write this day off as a bad 'un. Stop looking for things that have already happened.

You cannot change the past. But you can change the future. If you think that there are honestly things that you want to change (and these have to be things you think you need to change even when you're feeling really happy in yourself) then you are already making steps towards it with counselling.

Your H fell in love with you and was with you for a very long time. If the problem were you as a person it wouldn't have lasted this long.

When I'm feeling rubbish I like to start to make plans.

So... first plan; what items of furniture are you going to move (get someone else to do the heavy lifting of course so get your friend over) around to make the place yours? Even if you just plan it for later, it can help.

Have you made a box of things he can take? Like spare cookware (that way you make sure he doesn't take what you want and you can have a good clear out!). Is there anything that is his that you think is ugly? Make sure that's taken off the wall/whereever and put in a pile of "stuff to go". Start the clear out! It really helped me feel like this was happening and it would make things easier for me. It also made H realise that it was real and he was having to leave the family home.

Is there anything else you can do?

DS has gone off to bed (he's not asleep but H is in there with him - feeding a toddler with a cold is not comfortable ) so I'm trying to pull myself together so I can sleep. Was going to watch lark rise but I've missed to much so will have to catch it later.

I need to ask him to get some boxes together. I don't want to do too much for him but I do need to make sure he's taking what I want him to take. The house is decorated and arranged to my taste - he never really cared unless there was a practical reason why something couldn't be somewhere - so I don't think I want to change anything around.

I've just sent him a list of things I want him to do so hopefully seeing those being done will help me.

I know that the problem is that I can't let go of the hope just yet - its only been a fortnight since he admitted he didn't love me, and a few months since I knew things were really rocky, and I spent all that time thinking we just had stuff to work on, not that it would end up like this.

I'm hoping my proper counselling starts soon so I can start to sort out my feelings about him from my fears of being alone with 2 small children - I've relied on him for so long that they're all mixed up.

thankyou thankyou so much for your support. Just knowing that someone is there really helps, someone that understands how I'm feeling and isn't bogged down in how we appeared happy as a couple.

And it gets worse.

H just asked me on facebook if he'd done anything to upset me earlier. I said I couldn't talk to him while he didn't care, when he blanked me and didn't respond, and until he could do that I'd keep myself to myself. He said he was sorry.

What the hell does that mean? Except a bit of guilt on his part.

Argggh

Crunch
Just read your post and have had a similar thing happen to me tonight. H brought DD back (first time for overnight stay - I was in pieces but had manicure, went to cinema for first time in ages that helped me deal with it a bit better) Anyway he said he wanted a chat before he left tonight and I think he may be teetering on the edge of something, shaking, in tears, saying he thinks we should either start spending some time together (I called off the counselling a week ago as I just felt his heart wasn't in it - maybe symptomatic of that) he wants to move back in and see if we can make it work ( a massive turn around for him -first time in 4.5 months since he left he has displayed any such emotion)

Anyway he feels as if he has no-one to talk to as everyone is friends with me instead of him and feel as if he is in a black hole, is really confused and does not know what to do with himself. Half of me is pleased that he is finally suffering for everything he has done - the other is actually quite worried for him - but after everything he has put me thru the last 4 months whilst pregnant I am the last person he should be pouring his heart out to.

I told him he would have to get some counselling of his own before I could consider it but he was in such a bad way when he left I am quite worried. hmmm He has seen me in a very bad way these last few months and not done a lot about ti but I sense that this is different... or is he just looking for sympathy ?! no idea

He KNOWS he did something to upset you. That's why he asked, to find out if you knew about it.

I am and sorry for you that your friend is being less than helpful. I'm sorry to say that I think you might have to let that friendship go - going out with your H and not telling you is not any way to maintain an open and honest friendship with anyone, especially not in your circumstance. After our split, friends who did see the ex-F usually told me, even if it was just accidentally bumping into him in the supermarket - their honesty overrode the pain of them seeing and talking to him, IME.

Is your friend single? If so, I would be more suspicious about her motives, tbh. Sorry, this sounds as though I'm just trying to fill your head with dark thoughts and suspicion, but as my Mum used to say, the worst scenario is often the right one (she was usually right too)

As for the negative feelings about yourself, they are understandable and any self-revelations you have you can work with - but (and this is important) THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT. Your H has known you for a long time - he loved you anyway. You haven't changed, have you? No? HE has. This is about HIM, not you - beating yourself up for it won't help and will only make you feel worse. It is HIS failure, not yours. Remember that.

Chairmum, I'm sorry I didn't tell you about going to the farm thing with him, I didn't realise you didn't know, it really wasn't intentionally done to upset you. Your h asked if we wanted to go and it seemed like a fun day out for dd2 to have with her cousin.

I was hoping I could stay friends with both of you, and support you both because he is going through crap too, and I think of you both as family, but you are my nearly sister more than he is my nearly brother.

I know I haven't been as supportive as I should have over the last few days, but I'm in a permanent state of semi panic over this work stuff (I know I won't lose my job, house and kids but my mind still keeps thinking it) but I thought I had text you every day apart from Saturday (although admittedly that was the day you probably could have done with it most)

Please don't feel like you are a burden, you aren't. I said I'd be there to listen/ help/ whatever, I meant it and still do even if you don't feel like you can talk to me any more.

mummyfantastico - I've replied to you on facebook.

Thankyou for the kind words everyone. They do help me - once I calm down its something positive to keep in my head.

H is taking DS to nursery this morning so I am still in bed. When he's gone I'll go and have a bath and pick myself up for the day.

I actually slept pretty well. Maybe all that crying let something out. Had another good cry this morning trying to sort things out but I'm feeling less churned up now.

Lookingahead - your H needs to take responsibility for his own needs, like we have all had to. The men talk about what they can and can't do and expect us to deal with it, without them. It seems like for lots of you that when things get tougher for them they think you're still their emotional crutch. None of us can live like that so we all (I'm thinking of me here too) need to take some responsibility for our own problems. Just remember that he was the one that decided you weren't responsible for each other any more.

Deep breath, and I'll start the day soon.

My thoughts exactly Thumbwhich, even more alarming to see theyve been to the pub too.
Chairmum , i know its not want you want to hear , but id look again at this freindship.

Going to the pub / day at the farm with your H isnt really apropriate. This statement would worry me

I know I haven't been as supportive as I should have over the last few days, but I'm in a permanent state of semi panic over this work stuff (I know I won't lose my job, house and kids but my mind still keeps thinking it) but I thought I had text you every day apart from Saturday .

So too stressed / panicked to be supportive to you, but feeling ok to spend the day with your H at a farm ? Bollocks, whats going on here ?

She cannot possibly support the both of you like this, and as thumbwhich says i would question her motives for being up your H arse in this way.

She can not stay freinds with both of you, and you cant possibly speak to her in confidence when she is all pally with your H like this.

If she fancied a fun day out ( despite her panic and sress), shouldnt she have done that with you?

I think this stinks a bit.