How do you accept that you won't get an answer to all your questions when you split?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

It's so hard! H is still gone. We have minimal contact now and I am formal with him. I do occasionally ask him why he has thrown us all away so easily when he promised he would try to win us back (and I know I shouldn't), he just shrugs and looks sad.

I don't want to write the whole back story, so here's the short version:- H depressed for 3 years, took everything, gave nothing, became emotionally abusive, broke all his promises, broke my heart, I asked him to move out as it was hurting all of us too much. Things are easier now. Lonely, but safe.

But I want to know how he can be normal with everyone else and not with me.

I miss my best friend

And he's gone. And I want to know why he could choose to be the person he is.

He's been even worse since he moved out.

How do I move on from the "But why?"

I know time is the answer, and there is no other, but it's so unfair. My thoughts have revolved around his feelings for 3 years with no energy spare for my own. I'm beginning to think of me again. Bit by bit. But then I get caught back in the 'why?' and I feel drawn back in.

Crunch, contradicting himself , rewriting history, emotional abuse, all sounds extremeley worrying. If you dont mind me asking, what kind of mental health problems does he have ?

He's severly depressed and has been for 3 years. His last counselor accepted that he might have a PD as well, and said if he wanted a diagnosis he could ask his GP to refer him to a psych (for the 3rd time), but she couldn't see any value for him if he did know (not sure I agree) as either way he needed to change his behaviour towards me.

She was great about one thing though. In their final session when he told her the truth about what he'd been doing to me she simply said, "Yes. You are emotionally abusing your wife". He said "So what do I do? Who will help me? How do I stop?".

She replied, "You just stop doing it! You just stop!"

He is dleusional. He is erratic. His moods switch from one to another without a moment to stop. He believes his own lies completely. He believes whatever he is thinking at that moment. I can guarantee that every contradiction he said yesterday was believed when he said it.

TW is right about there being no good in talking to him. I spoke to him again later on (yes I know!) and he was genuinely sorry for his earlier oddness. Said he could see it with hindsight, but not while he was doing it. Seemed to genuinely be trying to connect (and that's the first time in nearly 2 months), but today he sent an email "justifying" himself again. With a "sorry, but".

So it was all a waste of my energy and my eyes are stupidly big and swollen (it's a good look, I'm planning on making it work for me).

Today I see friends, so that'll be nice.

I don't feel the need to talk to him anymore. I think I'm going to leave the ball well out of my court for a while (did I mangle that metaphor enough?)

I'm not going to beat myself up for this, since I think I'm carrying scars enough from the encounter. But I'm not half daft sometimes

I did wonder about the pd crunch, some of this sounds alarmingly familiar , particularly beleiving his own lies ect. Ex did all that and also literally exploded if criticized, not beleived.I honestly beleive for him to have a seious personality disorder.
Have you read anything about traumatic bonding ?

Baggage reclaim has some good articles about this sort of thing. Theres a really good article about repeated contact / trying to get them to see your point of veiw and explains it as a inbalence of power.

I used to feel that he had something of mine and that i needed to get it back , needed for him to see my point of veiw ect. That kept me tied in as the feeling of frustration / unfairness was unbeleivable. The times when he did " get it " , all was well with the world , and when he didnt , well , you know.

Bizarre that i banked on him to confirm my sense of what had happened, i know what happened beause i was there and witnessed it, i didnt need him to confirm it.There was nothing to gain in pointing out his cruel behaviour, he was aware of it, he just didnt care.

For a long time i was like a fish with a hook in my mouth and i could kick myself for playing audience to his ridiculous lies for so long.
And of course, its so hard to accept that the person you love is cruel and selfish, so i kept digging and digging, desperate to find something in his charecter to prove he WASNT this person, even though logicly i knew he was, i didnt want him to be, i didnt want to have been wrong and to have invested years in someone whos a twat.

To disprove the twat theory i actually invested a few more years in it. Despite knowing what he is, having witnessed horrific behaviour, occasionally i still hope im wrong and give him the opportunity to be a twat again.

Id highly recomend No Contact, you,ll start to feel better within a week.

Oh god, I had a long convo with XH on the phone last night. He used to be EXACTLY like yours, Crunchy - all that circular arguing, sudden changing of the subject and reinventing - but has toned down quite a bit now; principally, I believe, because he knows I will put the phone down on him if he is too annoying. I still engage far too much, though. Leaves my brain rattling around my skull like a pea in a pod.

XH would never go to any kind of psych assessment or help - always swore it was me! I've had to diagnose him myself on the basis of no expertise whatsoever, but I think years of untreated depression with a few choice PDs mixed in is a fair bet. He probably couldn't help it, or some of it, I don't know (hence this thread eh?) but the bottom line is, like alcoholism: I did not cause it, I cannot cure it, I cannot control it, and I sure as hell can't live with it.

Look on the bright side (if you can see it through your swollen eyelids): if your friends see you're suffering they'll be extra nice to you. Get a few coffees and lots of sympathy off them!

Annie, I will be expecting huge cups of coffee and lots of "You poor thing!"s

dignified I know you're right. I know it. But I don't feel it yet (now I'm sounding like him!) I'll have a look at those articles.

Rather than being aggressive H is terrified of confrontation. He'll stonewall me rather than engage. Which makes me angry because I just want to resolve things and get them sorted! It's the most frustrating thing in the world. That isn't to say he doesn't get angry, it just tends to come out at other things, sometimes just a look.

I've still got that hook firmly in my mouth. But I'm the one keeping it there.

Oops, not a pea in a pod - they don't rattle, they're ever so cosy. Dried pea in a can is what I meant.

Up, and then down again

I have been necessarily talking to H about moving out related things and every word he writes is just a nail in the coffin of our relationship. I know I already knew this but every day its clearer that he really really doesn't want to try

We had agreed (although I suspect he wouldn't have done as he said he would had I not reminded him) to go to relate. He won't go to discuss our relationship - he wants to go to family counselling which is about dealing with the effects of a breakup. He doesn't want to give me any closure. I don't know if I can deal with that sort of thing at the moment. He's talking about us not being in a relationship any more, and not being happy with us both having access to a joint account - he doesn't want to be responsible for my spending.

Oh god it hurts again. I'm so close to giving up as every message I get from him is hatred or disinterest. Why do I keep trying?

What a knob! But, as I said to Crunch, disengage. Keep it as brief as you can, limit conversations, even written ones, to the bare minimum required to achieve what you need to.

In his head, he has already withdrawn from this relationship - he cannot see why you haven't done the same, so he is making damn certain you do by being unnecessarily evil to you. It's back to the compartmentalisation thing again, really.

This spending that he doesn't want to be responsible for - that would be household bills and things for the DC, would it? Is he trying to skip out on his responsibilities there? Knob. Definitely.

However - you keep trying because you cannot actually believe that someone who you loved and lived with and had DC with has changed so much - you keep thinking that the old DH is still in there somewhere and you must be able to find the key to release him if only you keep trying. But you're wrong. The DH you thought you knew has gone. THis man who was your DH has buried that part of himself, that part that was your loving DH. He's showing you as clearly as he can that this is the case. Believe him, get him out as soon as you can and start to move on.

(Sorry for more strong words - looked like you needed them)

(((hugs))) to make up for Strong Words.

Thankyou TW, I need it. He should be out tomorrow. I have asked him to do it during the day while I am out with DS as I don't want him to see it happening.

I have a new mantra anyway : "My worth is not defined by someone else's opinion of me". I will try to keep telling myself that.

well that'll be a relief anyway. Once he's gone, the whole house will feel much lighter, brighter, more welcoming etc. And you'll feel lighter, brighter and FREE (ish) - you just wait.

While you're out with DS, buy something new for the house - something bright and lovely - it will change the dynamic when you walk back in and he's gone, because you can focus on where to put the new thing rather than focusing on your H being gone.

Oh, and hide or nail down or take with you anything that you really don't want to lose, just in case your H decides he really needs it while you're not there to stop him taking it.

I know I'm being melodramatic here but if your DS has a passport, take that out with you as well. Better off in your hands than your H's.

Change your mantra. THe brain has ishoos with negatives - it has to do the thing first and then work out how not to do it, so your mantra goes like this:
"My worth is not defined by someone else's opinion of me" in your brain - wrong message.
Rephrase it so that it is fully positive, no negative words (and preferably no comparative words either, like better or worse). E.g.: "I am a worthy human being in my own right. I believe in myself and know that my opinion is the only one that matters"

Keep telling yourself that - it will stick. And remember to smile at yourself - you're worth it!

We have agreed what furniture / electrical stuff he is taking and I am packing up kitchen stuff for him. I can't see him making off with something I want TBH.

I'm going to sort some of DS's toys out for him too. Need boxes for stuff but I'm doing what I can.

Having done my budget I can't really afford to buy anything new, but I have a gap where my wedding photos were. I should pack those away into what will be the spare room and get some frames for the recent photos of DS (and ignore the one of us that we stupidly bought. Waste of bloody money). That will fill the space and I can concentrate on my DS's beaming face instead Trying to think of things I can rearrange but I like things as they are mostly. Will have to ponder.

I CAN do this on my own. I will ponder my new mantra. Needs to be short and snappy

TW - I have posted a few times on here as am in the same situation as CMM and Crunch - Your advice is sooo spot on and whenever I read your posts you could be writing about my H (I guess that just goes to show how stereotypical they all are - whereas they would have themselves and everyone else think that they are unique ). Your advice makes perfect sense - mainly re the disengaging and the hidden DH of old. Do Mantras actually work ? Have been toying with the idea but have not got round to it yet.....

lookingahead - I agree. TW feels like the sensible, no-nonsense mum I wish I had!

CMM

Yes - my thoughts exactly...TW-Keep the posts up as they really do make perfect sense - all the things that you know you should be doing but find it hard to do.. togther with some very very insightful posts into what is going on in their heads and how they manage to be how they are....

When are you due btw ? I think I read June ? I am also due in June (30th) - 2 days before my DD's third birthday - (timing!) how about you ?

I'm due on the 11th - the day after my 30th. At least I might be distracted from being 30 and single!

I try to remind myself that in lots of ways I am lucky - I know people of my age desperate to settle down and have kids, but can't find the right man. At least I won't have to do that bit again - I'll have the children I wanted (or didn't know I wanted when I was younger)

am a bit apprehensive about him going tomorrow but we'll see how it goes. Tomorrow is definitely the day to go easy on myself!

aw thanks ladies - I am glad to be able to help!

Lookingahead, re. mantras - they can be very useful for reinforcing positive messages to your brain when it (and you) are feeling swamped by negatives and lowness, so yes, I would say they work. CMM is right though - they do need to be fairly short and snappy! Something you can remember easily and say over and over when things are getting too much. Remember to keep it all positive though (harder than it sounds, honestly!) Write a few down and check that there are no negatives and no comparatives, then pick the one you like best. So much of this feels instinctive - it's actually your unconscious brain recognising what it needs.

Ladies, I have read and re-read this thread about 4 times and found so many words of wisdom here.
I am also pregnant, due 20th June! H announced a few months ago that he was in love with a mutual friend and no longer in love with me and would be leaving the family home in order to spend more time with her. To say I am devastated is an understatement. We are still both living at home - right now on the phone to the OW which I can hear and find really stressful and upsetting. He is due to move out soon and I too have done the packing wooden spoons and other excess crap into boxes in the hope that being proactive will help.
The practical stuff I reckon I can handle easily, the emotional stuff is awful. I hurt so much. Have been with H all my adult life and just can't believe that the man I loved and trusted for so long has disappeared - and can apparently move on so easily, leaving his pregnant wife behind. I have so many questions for him but the simplest of queries makes him so angry. Yet I can't resist pushing for answers while I see him so often.
The other thing that hurts so badly is that he seems to have completely reinvented our entire relationship. Says that we were unhappy before the OW came along, that he had reservations about ever marrying me but did it anyway, even denies whole conversations we've had in the last week ever happened. All complete rubbish but I think he's told so many friends and work colleagues that we've split up - and he now has a new gf (ie not that he's leaving me for the OW!) that he actually believes it. It really upsets me that people don't know the truth and I know I need to let go of that. On top of that he's trying to take every penny we have with him and is threatening to sell the house or force me to agree to a sale.
I do wonder if I will ever be OK again. Would you mind if I joined you on this thread?

OMG, sowhathappensnow, that is dire!

Have you been to see a solicitor/CAB/someone who can advise you on whether or not he can do that?

My bro's ex tried to do the same to him - it ended up going to court, where he was able to argue that the DC needed some stability and he would buy her out of the house. The judge agreed that would be better, but it wasn't what his ex wanted - she wanted to take it all away from him too. A bit different in your case unless you have other DC, but you should still not be made homeless when you are about to produce one!

If you haven't taken advice, get onto it ASAP. And start moving money ASAP into your own account too - if you haven't got one, get one immediately.

I have sorted a bank account for myself and closed the joint account we did have. As a SAHM I have no income until I can get benefits sorted out and H has stopped paying any money towards anything so I'm a bit terrified at the moment. There isn't much money around to be honest but the few assets we do have H is convinced are all his.
I have seen a solicitor who assures me H is almost certainly not able to make me leave the house, in part due to the fact we do have another young child. However I'm pretty sure H will stop at nothing to get me out, not that he wants to live here himself but he just seems to be enjoying making my life as difficult as possible
I can hear that they are talking and laughing about me. I wonder what I did to deserve to live in this nightmare.

You did NOTHING. It is HIS fault, totally. I am so for you that you are having to put up with this behaviour, which is little short of abuse. Make notes about what he does, about his belittling and poor treatment of you and talk to the solicitor more about it - it is utterly outrageous.

As with all the other men on here, he has re-written his history to make out that he has done nothing wrong, to get out of feeling any kind of guilt. The best way for him to do that is to change his perception of who you are. Your mutual "friend" has a lot to answer for as well - she obviously knows you so where does she get off egging him on to be such a bastard to you?? The only thing you can hang onto is that if he's like that with you, at some point she'll probably cop the same (karma). You won't care by then but the knowledge that it is likely to happen sure helps now!

Have a ((hug)) too - I think you need it.

Oh swhn :-(. I know it's cold comfort but at leastbwith the OW you can have a bit of healthy hate going.

Definitely get yourself down to the CAB and talk to someone. As I understand it from a friends divorce, he can't take the house away from you till your kids are 18 - he has to provide a roof for them. But push him to go and find out your rights and what benefits you are entitled to.

H is moving out today. I just want that to be over. Have decided to rearrange my table in my lounge to make things look a bit different too. Managed to sleep ok but feeling sick and rough about it now :-(

SWHN how awful for you

Have you called Tax Credits? They were so fast setting up my new payments, it was in my account within a week (even though they said it could take longer). Don't let him get away with any of it! Make sure you always have legal advice for everything.

Miaow, you'll be ok. Just hold on. Today is going to be crap so try to just put one foot in front of the other and keep going. Can anyone come over and be with you? Have you got a DVD or something for this evening?

Look after yourself.

Having another crap day here too. Can't seem to be able to pull myself out of this slump. Why do I keep giving him opportunities to prove I am not his priority? Why do I keep inviting him to hurt me? "Please come in, and don't forget to wipe your feet on my face"

swhn

I'm so sorry for you and totally understand what you are going through.It's not just the fact that he has done what he has done but , as with my H he willingly and happily got you pregnant knowing what he was planning on doing (I assume it must have been going on in Sept of last year when you conceived as these things don't escalate that quickly generally)). What was he (were they) thinking at the time that you slept together ?! It makes me so MAD.I only found out I was pregnant a week after he left but we knew we were trying for a baby yet that didn't stop him. He 'left the ball in my court' as to whether or not I wanted to go ahead with the pregnany thus alieviating himself of any responsibility or guilt 9in his mind at least) - what a decent man hey ? But with yours it's different. He MUST be in complete and utter denial about what he has done or he would not be able to sleep at night.

On the other stuff yes he is bullying you about the house , assets etc - probably with no real knowledge about what your rights are and hoping that you will believe him and get scared(yes - I agree you must get yourself an appointment with a solicitor asap - I just asked for some recommendations on a local web board and found a good one)

As for the emotional side I agree that is probably the hardest. (How old if your other DC btw? )I am 4.5 months down the line since H left and am just starting to feel as if there is light at the end of the tunnel... and the pain and rejection is starting to subside (and I am seeing through his 're-invention of our entire time together and all his character assasinations - they are mostly him talking shit). The three things that have helped me the most on an emotional level are :

1)Distance (you will breath a HUGE sigh of relief almost as soon as he goes - No more listening to his sh*t and also the horrible phonecalls he is subjecting you to - You can reclaim your house and the tension,horrible atmosphere and 'toxic' feeling will be gone)

2)individual couselling (am not sure what I would do without my weekly appointment - really starting to help with shattered self esteem that was pretty low even before this happened - which I am realising played a part in breakdown of marriage) -also very good in helping you set some boundaries with H going forward which is essential

3)Friends friends friends - Old ones, new ones (I joined a singing group - bit random but I love it and have met a really nice girl there)

Also keep reading/posting on MN - It has got me through many a dark moment.

I do wish you the very best. I still have and I am sure will continue to have very dark days but they are slowly being outnumbered by more positive ones. I now really love and enjoy the extra time I get to spend with DD rather than constantly fighting back the tears and am realising who the real loser in here (in more ways than one). Cherish the time you have with yours as soon both of us will have our hands much fuller than we do now!

x

x

Well, today is awful but not as awful as I feared. I am mostly numb but also angry and sad and all those other things. I'm not feeling like I want the man he is at the moment around though, so perhaps the fog will start to lift.

I don't know if anyone will come around but I think it might be just as well for me to get used to how things are going to be. I'm feeling the urge (not right at this minute, but generally) to give the place a good spring clean, which is not like me.

I suspect it will hit me later and I will be in floods of tears, but today I have been mostly just numb

Must remember to call tax credits myself tomorrow. I have my income details etc ready so hopefully it won't be too hard to get it out before I start crying!