How do you accept that you won't get an answer to all your questions when you split?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

It's so hard! H is still gone. We have minimal contact now and I am formal with him. I do occasionally ask him why he has thrown us all away so easily when he promised he would try to win us back (and I know I shouldn't), he just shrugs and looks sad.

I don't want to write the whole back story, so here's the short version:- H depressed for 3 years, took everything, gave nothing, became emotionally abusive, broke all his promises, broke my heart, I asked him to move out as it was hurting all of us too much. Things are easier now. Lonely, but safe.

But I want to know how he can be normal with everyone else and not with me.

I miss my best friend

And he's gone. And I want to know why he could choose to be the person he is.

He's been even worse since he moved out.

How do I move on from the "But why?"

I know time is the answer, and there is no other, but it's so unfair. My thoughts have revolved around his feelings for 3 years with no energy spare for my own. I'm beginning to think of me again. Bit by bit. But then I get caught back in the 'why?' and I feel drawn back in.

dignified, TW - I really don't think its like that. She's like our family (she used to be married to my brother, so she is really) and I know why H turned to her (not that it makes it any easier).

Its about the shared confidences and the not being open about what was going on that has caused the upset. I just expected some distance between them in these early days.

lookingahead, it's not easy is it? Miaow has got it bang on with the bit about them needing to take responsibility for their own feelings. But that doesn't mean you just stop caring. It'll get easier I'm sure.

mummyfantastico, I know you've got work things on at the moment, but Miaow has lost her husband, her planned future, and is heavily pregnant. The least you can do is keep her in the loop. I would be astonished if a friend of mine went out with H and the DCs at the moment and didn't let me know. Just a text saying, "Is this too upsetting for you?" would have done it. Miaow has been left feeling like a mug, like the only one who doesn't know what's going on!

Please try to be more sensitive to her. Even if your motives were pure and you were trying to help, it's most important that Miaow can trust you. Especially if you are going to be her birth partner. I hope you've now spoken and sorted this out. Please, no more doing things without Miaow's knowledge. It's not about "permission" it's about sensitivity and courtesy. Don't assume H has told her anything (in fact, assume he is thinking only of himself right now), make sure you don't do the same.

And dignified is right on one front. You can't say you're too stressed to be there for a friend, but can be there for her H. That's really not on.

Miaow, hope today is better for you.

Thumbwitch and dignified, why is it not possible to be friends with both halves of a couple? I never would have met chairmum's h if it wasn't for her, but we did become friends in our own right too which is why I didn't want to just ignore him. My parents and sisters all got in touch with my xh when he left to see if he wanted any support, was that wrong? Did that mean my mum and sisters wanted a piece of him?

On Saturday I wanted to do something with the kids that would stop me moping around worrying and spoiling their weekend, so when chairmum's h invited us I accepted. It wasn't about being there for either of them, it was doing something for me and my kids. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it was thoughtless rather than malicious, and if I could turn back the clock to Saturday morning and not go I would.

I really don't want this to turn into a slanging match over me

Suffice to say we've had a talk and we both understand where we're coming from. Things may have been made harder from this but there's no blame and I want it to move on. I don't think there will be problems over events in the long run, so long as we remember to communicate.

And to be fair, the pub thing was before MF found out about her work stuff.

don't worry, CMM - no chance of a slanging match. We said what we thought, MF has come on here, I have no intention of getting into a debate about it as you both know the situation and we (dignified and myself) don't.

However I WILL say that it is incredibly difficult to maintain an even-handed friendship with both halves of a split couple whenever there is hurt on one side. If it's a mutual split, no problem - but when one is hurting, it's extremely difficult and likely to lead to problems and probably the loss of one or other of the ex-couple as a friend. So - I would choose who you would rather support now. But that's just me.

mummyfantastico, you've said your piece now. This isn't the place for you to talk to your friend, or to support her. The place for that is RL. Here is for her virtual support (and mine!). Can I ask you really really politely, and with no bad feeling, to leave my thread so it can go back to being about mutual support for people going through a similar thing?

Now then (puts her self-absorbed hat back on) back to me

Having a really crappy time here too. I made the mistake of talking to H on the phone last night after his complete failure to talk about anything yesterday afternoon.

I ended up crying to him about how terrible it was talking to someone who doesn't even respond. Told him how hard it is. How lonely it is. How I'm tired of his excuses.

At first he seemed to be trying to respond (in fact that might be the most he's said to me in 6 weeks), but then it all went the same old way. He apologised for "getting caught" lying to me!

I said, "WTF?! You're sorry you got caught?! Thanks for that, bye then!"

And then cried for hours, and I'm still caught in tears now and I can't keep it together.

HAd an email from him just now. I thought "Hurray! Maybe he heard me. Maybe he'll say all the right things!", but no, it was just to let me know he has a meeting that might make him late for the DCs

And I'm stuck back in the, "If he loves me as much as he says he does, why doesn't he want me?" and I can't seem to drag myself out of it

Any ideas? Please? I'm struggling.

Crunch - this is the time for Harsh Words - he doesn't love you as much as he says he does. They are just words. Actions speak louder than words and his actions are not those of someone who loves and values you. He is stuck in a "me me me" unutterably selfish loop - everything will relate back to him, how he feels about things, how things make him feel - he has no space to worry or care about how you feel.

It's easy for me to say now after so long but the sooner you develop a hard outer casing of suspicious cynicism, the less you will have these hurt moments. It's the leaping on small improvements and mentally "bigging them up" into fantasy scenarios where everything is suddenly all right again that do the damage - you need to learn to squash that before it gets started.

You will manage it, it takes a bit of practice but you'll get there.

Ok, this is my last post (promise)
The only reason I posted on here was because I was worried that chairmum would start to think there was something more to it between me and her h and I guessed she'd see this before I got to see her in RL

thumbwitch you are right, it is incredibly difficult, perhaps impossible. I tried, I failed. Chairmum knows (I hope) that she comes first.

Good luck ladies, this is probably the worst thing that you will ever go through, you are unlikely to ever get the answers you want but slowly you will stop needing them so much.

No slanging match, but mf has asked so ill snswer. I dont think its possible to be freinds with both halves of a couple who have split up and " support " them both , especially when you are meant to be her birth partner.

Ie, we have both brought freinds to the marriage , and although they became OUR freinds during that time, now we are divorced the original status has returned , his freinds are his, and mine are mine. Joint freinds ( freinds of our marriage ) tend to keep well out of it and simply state how sorry they are that this has happened . They are unable / unwilling to offer support as they are not in the position to, as this would be hurtfull to the other party.

I dont see how can you support each partner individually in this. Sureley the H must confide things to you, or vice versa, that you have to keep secret from the other .

Wrt to the statement i highlighted re your apology for not being supportive, it was followed by three big BUTS which kind of cancelled out your original apology.
An apology followed by several justifications isnt really an apology in my book.

I dont know you, nor your relationship with the op or her H, but i do find it odd that your freind is heavily pregnant, going through a horrific time and instead of supporting her, you opt for a fun day out at the farm with the person who has hurt her the most.

Thanks mummyfantastico Look after the RL Chairmum for us!

TW I know you're right. And here is where my internal quandry lies; if he never changes and stays like this forever then being the optimist will hurt more in the short term, but if I turn away from him completely then I might miss out on something.

And even I can hear how ridiculous that is. It's the MH issues that cloud things for me. But how do I know they're not just an excuse too? It's not like he's trying to get them sorted. All of his medical help has been pushed for by me, not him.

I really am pissed off with myself for staying trapped in this. I am grasping at straws (even when there aren't even any bloody straws!).

Need a few virtual slaps methinks.

crunchy - that's exactly how I feel - worrying that whether I draw away or try to stay close, its going to be the wrong choice!

As for the MH issues, I do think the not getting help thing is a big killer for you. I know my H is getting the help for himself but at least he's getting it, showing that he's serious about changing something. I guess you've told him a hundred times that he needs to get some help, but I've been in that place where you don't feel ready and put it off and put it off - and I know now its the worst thing you can do. Its very sad he hasn't come to that realisation yet

OK

Look at it like this. IF he ever sorts himself out and gets out of this MH issue and realises he does actually still love you - he can come and find you! Why would you sit and wait for that to possibly happen when it doesn't sound very likely? It's been years now, all the impetus to do anything about it has come from you so far - it's not likely.

I'm not saying it's impossible - perhaps when all the dust has settled and he is living the lonely life he might wake up to himself - but if he truly values what you had, he WILL come back and fight for it, even if it's a year or more down the line.

Do what is right for YOU - he is all smoke and mirrors, nothing substantial, nothing to cling onto there. Move your life forward without him, be strong for yourself and your DC like he hasn't been. I could get very rude about him now but I won't because I don't know him apart from what you've said, but he is basically a cowardly sloth who can't be bothered to put any effort into saving something that should mean everything to him - so clearly it doesn't mean everything to him.

Don't be pissed off with yourself, be pissed off with HIM for putting you through this! Lay the blame where it belongs. You are just reacting as any hurt person would - trying to find out the whys of an impossible situation and looking for the oases in an otherwise howling wilderness (did you ever read Little Women and Good Wives?)

OK - another just for good measure, and then a (((hug))) to take the sting away.

Miaow, he has had a lot of help and is still on a high dose of ADs (as far as I know), but he hasn't been to his GP since I made the appointment for him the week I asked him to move out (he was saying he had suicidal thoughts so I got him to lean on someone other than me). He was supposed to go back for a follow up the week after but never went and hasn't been since. He'd just finished his course of CBT too, so no counsellor now either.

But it's not my problem (or rather it is, but I can't shoulder the responsibility for it).

Crunch, ive done similar and it hurts. I would voluntarily speak to him then feel like crap afterwards. Then id go back for more of the same and spend the evening in tears.

Before i even spoke to him i knew exactly what the outcome would be , it seemed insane at the time to keep this going, but every time he was rude, hurtfull it undid things just a little bit more, and i think subconsciously i wanted him to be hurtful and unkind so i could be " done ".

I often imagined a rope, an umbilical cord going from me to him, with each nasty word, hurtful remark, a little bit of it would fray and break off until there was nothing more than a frayed old bit of string between us.
The hurtfull things he said, arseholish behaviour he displayed were actually a kindness in disguise , as it forced me to detatch from him.

TW You've just answered my worry! It's so obvious! If he did get better and decide he wants us then I would know it! He wouldn't be driven away by my being formal with him, or be deterred by dealing with consequences of what he's done! Because if he were the man I'm waiting for he would fight for us against any odds!

Which means I can move on. Without worrying that I'm missing out, because if he did give up after one attempt it would mean that he hasn't actually changed!

That is actually a huge weight off.

Cor, I really am quite thick

dignified, it certainly does that. Bit by bit it's eating away at my reasons to wait around for him. I just wish it didn't eat away at my self-esteem too!

nah, you're not thick - trust me, the emotional response way overrides the logical one! Emotions are so chemical, they wash out the logical neurological patterns very easily.

Glad to be of service!

Emotionally detatching, and turning the hope off is really hard.
I made myself a list of his positive and negative qualitys. The negatives filled about 4 sides of a4, the positives only half a page.
Every now and then i get a pang still, and i actually start to give him qualitys he never had , they are just qualitys i WANTED him to have.

It got hard when he started seeing someone, as sureley she mustve seen his good qualitys , maybe id missed out ? I had to remind myself that no decent man treats his family the way he has nor behaves so selfishly towards his dcs, regardless of his feelings towards me.

Waffle waffle.

Stupid emotions!

dignified, 'tis a good waffle. At the moment I'd be quite likely to make up lots of good qualities.

The funny thing is that he accuses me of only seeing the negative in him!

Oh the deluded and silly man.

Hello all,

Are we having a more positive day?

I had a good cry with my friend this morning and we've sorted stuff out, then went to see a friend with a new little baby. Talked about H a bit and the friend with the baby who had a section 4 weeks ago offered to punch him for me

Just did dinner (beans on toast, so hard ;) ) and escaped upstairs as it is my night off. Could feel my mood slipping as H was due home and its lifting again now that I can ignore him. Sad state of affairs

The ball is in his court now. He will have to learn as much about looking after himself as I do, and we'll see how he deals with that, and having DS on his own so much. He seems to be moving on wednesday but he hasn't confirmed that with me yet. I think he might move the basics on wednesday and the rest at the weekend as I guess he might need a van for the bed, but we'll see.

I've been eating better over the last few days, with the exception of last night, so if I keep going like this I might try aquafit next week. Although if I get a taxi home that will cost me a fair bit, and money is going to be tight. sigh

Oh God, have just spent the last half hour sobbing in front of the DCs

Not good. Spoke to H again. He's like a yoyo, all over the place.

What am I doing?!

Feel really lost and low

crunch: oh no Did they give you big cuddles? If I break down in front of DS he says "Mummy cry!!" and gives me big cuddles.

I wish I could tell you what to do, but I know sometimes you've just got to cry, to get it out and realise you're just waiting for things to get better

They did, but DS1 is 12 and is confused and worried. He asked what H did I told him "Nothing, it just makes me sad sometimes". Don't think he bought it

Oh, I was doing so well! Why am I letting him get to me?!

He kept changing his story. Asked me if there was anything I would have done differently. I said, "Of course, 101 things" and named one.

Later he said he'd asked to try to alleviate some of his guilt, then changed his mind and said he'd asked so that he could comfort me when I replied but that I'd said "No I wouldn't change anything". I pointed out that I'd actually said loads and named one specific thing. He then said he didn't comfort me for it (like he'd planned ) because the conversation moved on to something else.

He just wants to argue everything.

Has gone from admitting to emotional abuse to admitting he is "selfish" sometimes, but can't stand how I think he does things so maliciously.

Confused? I am! He's going round in circles and contradicting himself left right and centre.

I said it was like talking to someone else, and he said "Of course it is, things are completely different since you made me move out"

has he got paranoid delusions as well, Crunch? Sounds like it! He's got the re-writing history down to a fine art anyway.

I KNOW this is hard but he is obviously using what you say against him, so at this stage I would disengage as much as possible. You're not achieving anything positive, he's using it to cause you more pain - don't talk. Keep the communications to the bare essentials - anything else, he has lost the right to know. Whether he is doing this because of the MH issues or because he is getting some kind of perverse pleasure out of knowing that he can still affect you, you won't be able to tell - all you can work with is how it is affecting YOU.

Disengage, lovey - for your own sake.