How do you accept that you won't get an answer to all your questions when you split?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

It's so hard! H is still gone. We have minimal contact now and I am formal with him. I do occasionally ask him why he has thrown us all away so easily when he promised he would try to win us back (and I know I shouldn't), he just shrugs and looks sad.

I don't want to write the whole back story, so here's the short version:- H depressed for 3 years, took everything, gave nothing, became emotionally abusive, broke all his promises, broke my heart, I asked him to move out as it was hurting all of us too much. Things are easier now. Lonely, but safe.

But I want to know how he can be normal with everyone else and not with me.

I miss my best friend

And he's gone. And I want to know why he could choose to be the person he is.

He's been even worse since he moved out.

How do I move on from the "But why?"

I know time is the answer, and there is no other, but it's so unfair. My thoughts have revolved around his feelings for 3 years with no energy spare for my own. I'm beginning to think of me again. Bit by bit. But then I get caught back in the 'why?' and I feel drawn back in.

Chairman what you have said Is very reflective of the relationship I had.

I thought I was in control ( pushed for decisions, encouraged plans etc) but really I think on reflection I was led to believe I was in control. In reality he was controlling due to his fear, that I was more than capable of managing alone, and he wasn't.

He took over the money management, Made me feel I couldn't do the "little" jobs round the house( although I have now found myself to be more than capable) and made me feel reliant on him totally.

He used to say I was controlling as I had to push to get things done, nag when bill reminders came through etc. But that was also his control over me. Making me back down and apologetic for nagging.

Making my own decisions and finding my inner strength and self belief has been a surprise to me.

Changing the Utilities to my name was a my big step for last week. It felt like such a positive thing.

Norks, that sounds incredibly familiar too

Were we all married to the same man?!

(Miaow, the rubbish is easy when you get into it! In fact there is no practical thing that I have yet found hard, even the things H used to make a fuss about!)

Taking out the rubbish - I have actually found it to be the only thing H did reliably - I hate doing it, but it is hardly taxing lol

With the rubbish it's just a case of remembering to put the right bin out on the right week - which I always forget until it's too late.

h has gone to the pub and I feel absolutely sick wondering what he is saying about me when he can't even bring himself to talk to me and DS is stil awake.

High to low in an hour :-(

Chairmum - top sad tip! Make a bin schedule - it worked for me

You're right! Will watch what goes out tomorrow them put reminders in my phone for 6pm the night before to make sure it goes out!

Have slept for about 3 hours total tonight. Think H got pissed as he keeps waking me going to the loo and stuff. Grrrr. Still feeling sick, no idea how I am going to deal with tomorrow :-(

I don't know if this will answer your questions to some extent but it might help. 15 years ago (and yet I still remember it pretty clearly) my fiancé buggered off to be with another woman, after 11years together (we started going out when I was 17, he was 19) - so a familiar time frame to some of you.

I was desperate to find out what I had done, why he had changed, why he didn't love me any more, what she had that I didn't, WTF HAD HAPPENED?? He had no answers. But I kept pushing and pushing, so he made some up. Admittedly, there may have been partial truth in them and that was what did the real damage to me - it took years and quite a lot of therapy to shift the negative impact of what he eventually answered - that I was "impossible to live with", that I was "too temperamental", "too independent" etc. etc. Oh yes, and that I didn't like his family - well that was only true as far as his mum went, the rest of them were ok!

In the end, one of my counsellors gave me the first helping hand - it didn't matter what I had done/hadn't done, was like etc. - what mattered was that he didn't love me enough. It was his failure, not mine. Ooh, that made a difference! First step, lots of others after, mostly relevant to me personally (low self esteem, family issues etc.)

The other thing that might help is what I got from a client of mine - he said that when things reached a level where he was unhappy, he would start to withdraw and compartmentalise. So, he could quite easily hurt his previously-beloved because she had been moved from the "loved" area to the "not loved" area in his brain. Thus anything that involved her trying to re-access the "loved" area simply didn't work for him, so he ignored it or rebuffed it.

Some men, in particular, can become quite spectacularly selfish when breakups are going on (don't get me wrong, some women can be too) and they will do almost anything to avoid feeling bad themselves. Guilt makes them feel bad, so they try to remove guilt in various ways, including re-writing their personal history so that it somehow becomes the woman's fault, or that they never really loved her that much anyway and were just being nice/polite etc. Thus, crying just gets on their nerves totally because it ignites a spark of guilt => they feel bad => they try to stop feeling bad => they turn it back on you and make it your fault in some way.

I think the only way I ended up dealing with what had happened and why was to agree with the first counsellor - he just didn't love me enough and then he lied to make himself feel better and to shut me up. Pushing for answers that they can't vocalise/probably don't even have themselves can be extremely counterproductive if they are backed into making something up, so let it go.You never really know who they are anyway - they adapt themselves to your expectations to some extent, and when they no longer care about your expectations, hitherto hidden and unexpected aspects of their character might come forward. They've always been there, they were just hidden because they didn't "fit" into your relationship; but it does feel as though the person has completely changed (usually into someone we wouldn't have spent the last decade+ with!)

Work on the principle that they don't love you enough, that you don't want to be with someone who doesn't love you enough anyway and that someone will come along who DOES love you enough, even if it might take a while. It took a few years for me to find DH but it was worth it.

((hugs)) to you all and I hope you find your way through - it's a horrible time but you will come out of it better and stronger, knowing who you are and that you can manage without them.

Oh yes, and smile at yourself every morning in the mirror - it will make you feel better, honestly.

Thumbwitch - these things really help when I'm feeling rational about stuff, and help me to focus on the future. It's all those times in between where my head is just spinning and I can't think straight but to wonder what on earth went wrong where nothing makes sense :-(

ChairmumMiaow - this is going to be the least helpful-sounding bit of info but it's still true - time DOES help with that bit. You get steadily more of the rational times and fewer of the spinning-in-the-wilderness times. It really is 2 steps forward, 1 step back - remember that and every little bit of improvement will be a good sign, every little bit of backsliding will be just temporary.

Thumbwitch that is spot on
Its all to do with guilt and responsibilty but you can`t see that is what they are doing when you are in it

Thumbwitch what a fantastic post

Everything you say rings true.

Miaow, I'm going to add one more thing to the "time" solution; "Space" makes a hell of a lot of difference too. It's only been a few weeks but it's already easier. I think about him a little less, I worry a little less, I make a few more decisive moves for me.

That doesn't mean I don't have wobbles that make me start threads on MN, but the time between them is getting longer.

I'm trying to look at the positives. I've already had more of a social life in the past week than in the whole of the previous few months. People care. The DCs are doing well and thriving (whereas before they were stressed and unhappy). And I don't have to face him and worry. The first week or two I worried about what he was doing and couldn't adjust to not knowing where he was. But now I don't care. As long as he gets here on time for the DCs () it's not my business.

There are days when I want to know. But I don't need to know anymore.

Thumbwitch, that bit about other personality traits coming out is spot on. And about trying to take away the guilt by blaming me.

He's always been cowardly about taking responsibility for his actions, I shouldn't be surprised that he's running as far and fast as he can from taking responsibility for tearing his family apart.

Thumbwitch your post is spot on and totally in line with where I am right now. H left in Oct and I was desparate for us to go to counselling to try and sort it out. We did (I suspect he just went along to not seem like the bad guy) and I made the decision to end it last week as what Thumbwitch described (the guilt and projection from him) is EXACTLY what was happening - A weekly hour of me getting a verbal battering and character assasination and I reached the point where I could take it no more - rather than moving forward I was absorbing more and more of his accusations and feeling more and more worthless every week. I like chairmumMiaow am pregnant and knew this was doing more damage than good.

To Crunchy - I am only 1 week in to setting boundaries about not engaging in conversations about 'us', putting stricter arrangements in place about his contact with DD rather than him being round the house too often and also beginning to accept that whatever the reason was - he did not love me enough and I deserve better. I feel more powerful already by not agonizing morning noon and night about him and her and accepting that I will probably never get the answers I still crave, not taking his comments on board and starting to look after myself. Its still horrible and really tough to let go of what you thought was going to be but we can't do anything about that now - We have to look forward.

BTW I have been going to a counsellor once a week since November and it is really helping me see through this and help me deal with it - and work on self esteem issues . It's expensive but is worth every penny and we have negociated a rate that I can afford.

sorry - crossposted with you crunch - sounds like we are roughly at the same place right now!

lookingahead, it's so tough when you're pregnant too. It takes so much strength. A strength that they don't have a clue about!

I've actually been referred by my GP to a counsellor since I was feeling very low the week before he moved out. I had all the symptoms of severe depression, but funnily enough they vanished when I wasn't having to soak up his crap day in day out. I've got an appointment in a couple of weeks which I will keep as I really need to keep myself going. I've seen this particular counsellor before and she is really lovely and practical . The best thing she said to me was this time last year - when H was treating me terribly and I just felt so sad and angry all the time - I asked her how to stop being so angry and she just said, "Don't you think that's a normal way to be feeling given what you're going through!"

The second I let myself feel how I needed to, the anger just disappeared. It was like my whole body was telling me to accept that this wasn't my fault and couldn't move on until I had

Crunch - I'm hoping you're right about the space thing - it's always interactions with or related to H that send me into my lows and perhaps I can be more level when he isn't there.

It does help to see people in similar circumstances who are further down the road than me, because right now, my once clear future is a horrible blur :-(

just been to the docs for an antenatal appt and burst into tears again. She said she'd try to chase the counsellor but couldn't give me a timeframe. In the meantime I'll continue with my online one until that gets sorted as it is better than nothing.

DS is asleep so I've taken myself to a cafe to try to force a sarnie down as i've probably got another UTI :-(

Chairmum I really feel for you having to live under the same roof. I can absolutely assure you that things will get better after he goes. Whilst you are seeing him and waiting for him to make up his mind it must be living torture - My H moved out straight away which seemed very harsh at the time and I still feel like I have been kicked in the stomach but with hindsight it is the distance that now means I am starting to move on. It's a bit extreme to say out of sight out of mind as clearly that can not be true in our case but the distance is crucial at this stage.

Even now when H comes to see our daughter it cuts me like a knife as they still look the same on the outside - the person you have loved all these years and its really hard to detach yourself and see them as the father of your children and nothing more. I'm not there yet but I now know where I want and need to be. When are you due btw ?

glad I could help

I'll tell you something else - nearly a year after he left me, I knew that I was really on the road to recovery. His grandparents phoned me (bless them, they were lovely) to warn me of the dangers of horseriding without stirrups, as my ex had just had to have varicose veins stripped in both legs, they believed as a result of this activity. He was 30!! HOW I kept a straight face while on the phone, I don't know - it was only not to upset them because they were genuinely wonderful people - but the thought of him having to wear full length elasticated surgical stockings through Valentine's Day, his anniversary with the OW etc etc had me PMSL. And then I knew I was over him. I had other things to deal with but that was IT as far as he was concerned.

For other people, it will take far less than a year to get to that point, and for yet others it might take longer - but it does happen and it's a great feeling when you recognise it.

Chairmum, I'm sure you know this but if you think you have a UTI drink some cranberry juice - it will help!

Meant to add to this thread yesterday and haven't got time atm to read all replies.

I am a bit further down the line - separated for 3.5 years and divorced for 3.

My marriage took quite a while to crumble so some of the issues were answered while we were still together.

I went to Relate whilst we were togehter but he would not attend - that speaks volumes.

Since we split we have both moved on in different ways but I would still like an acknowledgement/apology from him about his behaviour but i have accepted that I am not going to get it.

I do have a pop at him every now and then about past issues but he never bites and I am too exhausted to exhume everything and also can't see really the point now. Perhaps my way is not that healthy but its realistic.

Hope that helps

I htink time just fades things, and makes them less of an issue. 5 yrs on here. x

Another thing that might help you, I don't know:

Lots of people said to me that I must feel really bad that I wasted so many years of my life with my ex. I said no - not really, they were mostly good years and I wouldn't have got where I was or had a house of my own if I hadn't been with him. I found for me that it helped to see it as a necessary part of my life to get where I was at that time. Wishing it away wasn't going to help, regretting it was no use either, so I took the positives from it and ignored the rest.

I was very glad I didn't have DC with him because of things like what lookingahead said - but if we had had them, then they wouldn't have been them without him, iyswim. It makes sense to me now I have DS - whatever happens in the future between me and DH (no reason to imagine anything bad except that once you've been burnt once you tend to be a bit wary), I will always be glad that we were together to produce DS.

Take the good bits from your relationship, remember those as being nice memories, dump the rest in a mental binbag and put it in a mental recycling unit.

sincity it's tough when you want recognition of what they have put you through. But I suppose the last thing they want to do is really recognise what they've done. That would lead to thumbwitch's "guilt to pain to blame" cycle anyway so they've no reason to indulge it.

lookingahead, in the last couple of years I have often referred to DH as the "stranger in my house who wears my best friend's face". It's so difficult to see the man who used to look at you as though you were the only person in the world just turn away.

pirate, I can't even picture 5 weeks at the moment, the idea that one day it'll be 5 years is (oddly enough) quite soothing.

I've been waiting for him to get better or choose to be kind for a consistent period of time for years. And he wouldn't. I kept waiting and waiting and more time would pass, but we kept coming back to this point. Love isn't the issue (I don't think), but respect is. Now, finally I am demanding to be treated with respect and he has shown that his feelings are more important to him than behaving decently.

Thinking that maybe in a year I will be free of all these feelings, compared to being with him and hoping that one day he would do something that was completely out of my control, is so incredibly liberating.

The sun is shining. I have girly plans for the weekend. And just for the moment I feel a teeny tiny bit positive about the future

Right. I am still feeling really sick but managed to take DS to the park and eat half a sandwich. That is something.

I've also put my recycling/rubbish reminders into the calendar, so it will beep at me to tell me to do it the night before.

However, he's now got flat viewings booked for tomorrow. My head knows this is a good thing, but my digestive system is not happy about it (I think its directly linked to my emotions ) I'm still all churned up about last night.

I need to do something positive but I'm so weak and worked up that I just want to sleep. And now my counsellor has password protected the file we do the stuff in and I can't get in it

Miaow, you're going to be ok. Keep posting.

There've been times I couldn't even make it to the park, so you're beating me already!

Don't think of the future at the moment. Just work through the practical stuff. Bins is a great first step. Then there'll be him finding a flat. Him moving out.

When H moved out another poster suggested rearranging the furniture. So I did. And now when I come downstairs it feels more like MY space and not ours. Little things like that can make you feel better.

Listen to music. Talk to people. Keep busy (my house has never been this tidy!).

Thankyou. I need to keep posting, it stops me from going mad. I pray I can sleep tonight.

I've just finished an email to my counsellor, which often helps but leaves me feeling drained. I'm looking forward to my face to face counselling though, as she often seems to ignore things that seem important to me, or to make pointless comments. It is definitely better than nothing though.

Today I have been painfully honest about some personal aspects of my relationship, in a way that I have never been before, and find myself very upset that I was unable to do this for my husband. I now don't think it would make much difference to him to hear it, but I hope I get the chance to work on it with him, even if we don't get back together.

Things are much easier when I can convince myself he's not going to change his mind, as I don't have to worry about how the hell I am going to get him to communicate with me (communicating about DS isn't such an issue) about things without blanking me as he has always done.

I am trying to save it all up so that when we eventually go to relate (whether to get some closure or to sort things out) I have things clear in my head and can try to work through all the issues as I see them.

Oh and he's just tweeted that he seems to be in a good mood today. Makes me angry

don't blame you, CMM! Why the hell should you care now that he is in a good mood?

Be prepared for that though - that's part of their selfishness, thinking that you are still going to care about them and everything they do.

My ex - he asked me if we could still be friends. I said "would you want to be friends with someone who had kicked you in the teeth and ripped your guts out? No? Thought not." He was surprised. And more surprised that I was bitter about it. He was even surprised that I stopped being around whenever he came over to the house to do maintenance stuff like cleaning the fish tank or mowing the lawn. He "liked to see me" - well fuck off mate, because I didn't like seeing you any more!

Selfish. Only interested in their own feelings. Because that's all they care about now.