Narsissistic personality disorder

[therealme]

I'm English, living overseas. I'm married for 17 yrs and most of that has been pretty awful. I recently 'came clean' about my abusive relationship with dh on a parenting site where I live and I have had my eyes opened for the first time that maybe it's not all my fault anymore. I have blamed myself for everything that has 'gone wrong' in my marriage - although I have genuinly messsed up on more than one occasion.

I received a lot of support from people but didn't believe I was worthy of it. Then somebody suggested I google Narsissistic Personality Disorder and that is the moment my whole world changed. For the very fist time I began to see that maybe it wasn't ME that might have all the problems. I saw my 'perfect' dh described in black and white and the words 'personality disorder' were attached to his behaviours. To say the ground shifted from under me would be an understatement.

So now I find myself at a turning point in my life. I know I have to end my marriage. It's emotionally, verbally and mentally abusive. I now recognise that I am a shell of the person that I once was, have had the life blood drained out of me, but still have enough of a spark in me to want to fight for some peace of life at 42! I have 3 children whom I love and adore - but who also love their Daddy. I'm living financially independently from my dh who refused to support me financially after ds 2 was born 6 yrs ago. I want him out of the house and out of my life!

I've made my mind up, but I am still so weak when it comes to taking action. I have spent so long living in a confused and guilt-ridden state, does that make sense?
Is there anybody out there who has experience of living with a narsissistic partner? How do you make the break? How do you ever find the strength to stand up to them in order that you might have some quality of life left for yourself? Please advise.....

Therealme: I am wondering why exactly he wants you to wait 6 months before going to mediation. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with any reason he has given you. Does he plan to spend money like it's going out of fashion on the children, and seek to buy their affection? What's in this 6 months for him, in other words... and why is he dangling the carrot of the replacement car for you? They don't have an altruistic bone in their bodies -- beware. I would be inclined to do the mediation asap (at least get your names on a list because there's probably a wait anyway). The longer the visitation question is up in the air, the more wiggle room he feels he can have as far as access to the DCs goes, plus he can continue to pop in and out informally and drive you nuts, especially with Christmas included in the 6 months. And he may well try to use the 6 months to gather evidence of what a devoted father he is capable of being.

As for your memories and the mental roller coaster -- facts can definitely be distorted, but emotions can't be erased. How did your feel on those occasions that you remember? What little things that may seem insignificant spring to your mind out of nowhere? These are important things.

Therealme - I wouldn't try to play him at his own game re negotations over 6 months leeway. You are not an N - you can't do it.

I would advise not enterting into any negotiation over 6 months - you have started the process - don't let it drag on as mathanxiety says - he will certainly manipulate it to his own advantage.

I think your sanity is more important than playing dangerous mind games in order to get a new car. Let the solicitor and courts do the maintenance stuff - they are teh experts.

I agree. No 6 months delay. N way. You are doing this on your terms now. 6 months is a very long time.

If he can buy you a car now then ask him to buy you the car - you need it for the DCs. He is not giving you money tell him, he is supporting his dcs..so if he is being mr perfect dad he should provide the car for his dcs mother.

If he can't afford the car now can you get a loan if you really need one? At worst borrow from a friend or relative? Just a second-hand number for a couple of grand or less?

They do absolutely deny reality. I remember when things first began going sort of wrong with my exh about a year after we got together; he would say 'but I told you about thisxxx two weeks ago' and he categorically had not told me, and yet he swore blind he had and I began to think I was going mad.

The severest example was when we were away for a long weekend and he said he had to go home a day early to see the girls (his dds by ex) and this was fine. Yet when I rang him later he was with the girls and his best friend (chap I had not yet met) who had come over from Ireland and down to see him for a couple of days. I said to him 'but you didn't tell me he was coming or else I would have come back too - I really want to meet him' and of course xh calmly kept repeating to me down the phone (within earshot of girls and friend) 'but I DID tell you he was coming. I told you a few weeks ago. You knew he was coming.'

It was the weirdest thing - and of course I ended up shouting down thne phone saying 'you bloody did not tell me. Do you think I'd forget something like that? A nd anyway why didn't you bloody remind me then and I would have come back too.' Of course I sounded like a mad ranting loon - he was probably rolling his eyes at his mate and holding the phone away from his ears, or more likely playing the 'poor me. This is what I have to put up with from my mad girlfriend.'

They are psychos in this respect quite right Sakura.

And as for my N parents (mum N dad co-dependent enabler) he remembers fuck all apparently - well, he can remember his after-dinner cricket speeches word for word but he can't remember hitting us or giving my brother the belt or any of the other shit.

Realme, you are so early into this nightmare. It took me as I say about four months before I began to start to sleep and eat properly. You ill get there lovely, you just have to plough on while your brain continues to get the plasters and bandages out of its little mental medical box and heal itself.

Do not wait six months before mediation (in fact mediation will be a bloody nightmare with him anyway and you will be feeling a bit better in six months so it would set you back terribly) Also, waiting might make light of all the very serious effort you went to of getting the court order, not to mention the judge's decision to grant it.

Hugs.

Oh yes, their twisting and denial of reality is one of the worst and most damaging aspects to recover from.
This is why its very important to keep a diary, it records the events and maybe your feelings as well.
Ex-N is still trying to get me to see him when he picks up DD. I wont.
He made out that I was being unreasonable not seeing him because he wanted to ask me about DD and claimed he knew nothing about her life.
I texted "So phone me occasionally?"
He replied that I never answered.
I really wanted to reply that he never phoned, but instead texted that if he wanted to phone I would talk to him quite happily.

Its all BS. He's not remotely interested in DD. He never calls, or emails asking about her.
Saddest thing is that my friend who does handovers for me told me that DD's face did not light up when she saw him, but did when my friend picked her up.

I feel like I have little right to post here because I have by and large managed to protect myself from my N and you brave ladies are right in the thick of it, putting up with their cruel bullying behaviour all the time.

I do agree about the night waking thing though. Its a "safe" time to process. I do this a lot.

A good book is "COntrolling People" by Susan Forward (I think). She says that controlling men have a cardboard cut-out image of their partner. THey never see the real core person that they are with, only the imagined "Perfect" partner. So when the partner begins to show signs of authenticity or individuality, they react with hostility.

Anyway, one thing she talks about is this tendency to say "I did tell you that" when they clearly didn`T. Forward explains that in the mind of a controlling man, the cardboard cut-out partner would know these things. When you deny that you know things he belives you should know, you are showing your real, authentic self. This infuriates the controlling abuser.

My father keeps doing a weird one. I just received a letter today and in it he asks me yet again whether Im driving yet and how I cope with the public transport here in Japan. My father is sexist, a mysoginist. He cannot cope with the idea that I am independent and that Ive been driving since the first month I arrived here 4 years ago.
He cant cope with the idea that I am no longer a child. But what is weird is that IVe repeatedly told him that I drive. My brother visited 3 years ago and I drove him everywhere to show him the sights. Its so infuriating that I am just a cardboard cut-out daughter to my father. The real me is lost to him

Have long suspected my ex dh of this.

Or is it just they are children, who won't grow up.

my ex left me and dc.

blames dc for his own lack of commitment to ongoing plans, ie access, and making a god relationship with dd.
blames me for everything.
No matter what support i haver given his and dd's relationship, it is always my fault. The just gives up when things dont go his way. Didn't allow me to have any opinion over dd's well being over his lack of care.

Then, if i have managed to get thru to him verbally, in a very infrequent phonecall (say twice a yr) of the efect it's having, he sort of understands. then within about 3 weeks he cocks up again.

The latest was in march when he didn't contact dd for 3 months, then claimed he's had a breakdown. Then it was tears and a thankyou to me for 'helping' the situation, then after about a month he messed up again.

On hearing dd's recent lambasting of him, all i got was 'oh it's not fair why does she hate me'.

Then after yet another visit, whee i had to force dd to see him, (becuase this cyle needed to be broken), he was all nice to me, and complimentary and stuff.
wtf is all that about.

I'm only adding to what's been said here, but my x would do that. The morning after he'd tried to strangle me, he's say "what? you're hallucinating, you're delusional, you're insane!".

I was never sure whether he actually believed that I had made it up and he really didn't remember it.... or if it was like strangling me again, but worse.

HOW can a person not remember what they did and said the night before.

that wasn't an isolated incident either. over the years he kicked down doors and hurt me loads of times. I think he doesn't remember a single time. He remembers the doors because he put them back on their hinges I suppose. Although I'm not even sure of that.

If they don't remember I think its because their way of dealing with it was denial IYSWIM - when they shout or get violent it's because we have attempted to undermine their reality which they will go to desperate lengths to stop, so they just block it out, no matter how extreme the situation or events.

Which does not excuse it any way, of course, but may help us to remember that WE are the sane ones.

I agree with all the comments, it solves nothing to let him drag this out over months, he only has a chance to gain control over you, he knows how to do it he did it for years he thinks he just needs the time to ware you down. He is doing what he does best, unsetteling you taking away your control, removing the barriers that can hold him back, and ultimatley gaining back his control. As for the memories, I know I have thousands, and some apparently never happened!!!!, and some are fuzzy and a little unsure, but I know this, you have lived this and only known this for so long, you are conditioned to second guess yourself, thats how its always been, he has been your Lord and Master and you learnt to dance to his tune, and now you have choices, and strength and he doesnt like it, simple as that. Dont give up on yourself TRM, you have brought me this far with just your words, you can do it.

It was my bday yesterday, the first occasion in years where there has been no trouble arguments etc, was very boring very quiet, but ohhh Peace!!

I went to my accountants today, he has issued ex N with his P45, would love to see his face when that lands on his door, not so superior now is he!! I sacked his ass!!

Although, I have been instructed to close my business as exN has depleted the little we did have, and I now have creditors calling, so I have been told that I should have 30days bring in as much assets as possible, pay my debts and close, remove him from every part of my life. My accountant was so nice, I explained only slightly and he said that he works closely with Womens refuge and that he is appauled as a man how women are beaten down on all levels by their partners, he was wonderful, a great adversory to have at this time, and he convinced me to sack him, so I did, he also said if I ever took him back he would feed me to the VAT man!

Slowly but surely it is becoming clearer, not easier, but clearer.

therealme.....a word of warning.

You CANNOT OUT PSYCHO A PSYCHO!

so don't even go there.

The gaslighting thing is of course insane making in the victim. They loook calm and rational to any casual observer....you look like an insane loon....which of course is the point of it!!!

Sakura, I always felt that exH had an image of me that was completely different from reality, and when I read that book I knew this was true. I actually felt I had been, for him, a sort of mail-order bride, so different was his expectation of how I would behave and adapt to life in his native country, and what I would be able to accomplish, job-wise, when we were first married. He 'helped' me with my cv and insisted on putting down computer publishing skills I absolutely did not have (this was 20 years ago when not too many people had skills like this). I can still remember my sickening fear of being unmasked at an interview when I sent out applications (ended up getting a job from someone I knew in an area I could manage in the end). What he did with my cv was really cruel to me. He couldn't see what I was miserable about and why I was so afraid of lying on the cv with the kind us flat-out untruths he put there. I think they essentially do not see other people in 3-D. Nobody else matters to them. Words that the rest of society assigns a certain meaning to, such as 'love', 'honour', 'respect', 'cherish' are just words, promises are just words, and words are just ways for them to get what they want.

I wonder if they have a cardboard image of themselves in their head, and are actually very 'split' and unable to acknowledge themselves, warts and all, so it seems reasonable to them that they couldn't possibly have said or done the things they said or did because that's not what the kind of marvelous person they believe themselves to be would ever do (sorry, bad sentence).

Therealme: I would start looking for a car for yourself and try to ease yourself out of the mindset that you must accept the crumbs he throws in your direction and that the material things in your life must come from him, and you can't or shouldn't or it's too difficult to branch out and forage for yourself. He wants to keep you feeling dependent on him so hence the promise of the car for good behaviour? Put out feelers among your neighbours for a car there's bound to be someone who knows someone who wants to sell one.

Actually, I don't know if anybody remembers, but years ago on Eastenders, Phil and his mtoher Peggy did this to the character Lisa. That was a bit of a ding dong omg moment for me. I was sitting at home watching it thinking, this is how treats me.

Eastenders is shit, but that was so realistic I could hardly watch it. I think I was prg with dc1 then :-(

Another example of 'gaslighting' in fiction, Philippa Gregory's "the little house". In that case it was the MIL. I'm not recommending it, it was almost unbearable to read. I only stumbled on it because I love her tudor series.

Hi Therealme,
I hope you are ok.

Imho, you really need to disconnect 100%. Remember the little bit drip to increase more and more to manipulate you?

6 months doesn't seem like much? It is part of an agenda- his agenda.

He might have someone coaching him (just like you do ). I am guessing, but maybe what was posted earlier (sorry I haven't gone back to do the proper credit) about him perhaps being required to give you a car (or funds for one) as child support at some point down the line is behind the wonderful promise. He may be simply giving it to you early to use it for his maximum gain in a power play. It is, I believe, just another form of bait. And behind doooor number three.....
Will he promise a second honeymoon next?

Leave it. You can depend on yourself for ALL your needs.

Got to dash--
remember: not even f^^ing Buckingham Palace!

Yes, you are all right. I've been thinking about his 'suggestion' about the car/delayed mediation all day. It is all just another 'master plan' in the making. There have been so many over the years. He gets an idea into his head and starts hatching a plan, often complex and with many spin offs, but the main objective has always been to benefit himself in some form or another. I rarely got anything out of it and have been let down time and time again. Why the hell should this be any different?

He doesn't want to go into mediation now because it will expose his high disposable income. He will be hit hard for maintanance. So he wants to delay for 6 months to stash some money and the bait for me is a car. I've been promised things before and they have never materialised, always some logical excuse or explanation as to why.
He is also very un-keen to have the dc on overnight access while at his mothers. It is impractical, I know, but not really my problem anymore. He could always go rent a place if he was that interested in having his dc overnight. But no, instead he wants me to co operate in order for him to save to put a deposit on a house. He could have done that 5 years ago when he decided to keep all his money to himself!

Not only that, but I have been really shaken up by his denial of having smashed the bedroom mirrors. This happened within the last year so I know I didn't imagine it. It has really hit me hard, this evidence that he is not functioning on a normal level; that he can so blatently deny something as dramatic and not blink an eye.

So what I see happening is him sucking me in once more to his fantasy world where he has all these grand notions of buying a house in order that he can play happy families with his dc, where he has total control because it is not being witnessed by his mother in her house. He needs me to co operate with his plan so I am promised something he knows I really need.
It's all fantasy-in-his-head-land again.
This 'owning his own house' obsession has been going on for years. He repeatedly blamed me for not wanting to buy a run down shack miles away from where we lived soon after we married. When we did buy a house it was me that organised and found the property - the first time he saw the house was the day we moved in! I then agreed to sell the house and move back to the U.K. as penance for having been unfaithful. We sold up but stayed here - he now denies this was the reason why we sold. Ever since then he has blamed me for having been forced to rent, constantly telling me that he should have been almost mortgage free in his nice suburban semi by now. That he is entitled to spend lavishly on himself as this could have been the case if I hadn't fucked up and left him in this position.
He has lived rent and bill free for years and saved nothing. He could have put many deposits on many houses with his disposable cash over the past few years. But he didn't. His story now just doesn't add up.

hey therealme I am listening to music. Your man is making me giggle a bit. I mean, all those years ago why didn't he invest in one of these if he wanted to put a roof over his family? Twerp

Why indeed UA.
But can guarentee it was all my fault

Unlikely

I was also going to say, Therealme, "believe it when you see it". But you've probably learned that one in spades.

No material object will justify sacrificing your mental/physical health. You need to be there, in total, for your dc.

Do you realize, therealme, that you are winning?

If he thought he was winning, you'd never see/hear from him. Don't you think? All this contact is because he is in deep panic mode and is scrambling for even the slightest hair to grab on to.

On the gaslighting-just say that his denial (or lies) does not change the truth of it or the effect of it. Memorize, rehearse it and give it back to him every time he pulls that crap with you. Just in a flat matter of fact voice-"your denying it does not change the fact of it or the effect of it".

Best word in your vocabulary: No You don't even need to think about it, therealme.

Is 8 Oct still the court date? What has your solicitor said? If you haven't already, you might consider keeping the solicitor up to date with x h's strategems of manipulations and emotional abuse (the gaslighting).

Stay focused. Watch out for the second hand smoke for the dc , and more salad, please.

You are doing it!! You are winning!!

I've just been on the phone to him.
He rang me. I questioned his 'master plan'. I voiced my doubts over the car promise.
As a result I was told that he was documenting our conversation as he suspected I had an alcohol problem, that I had 'mood swings' which suggested I was not mentally sound.
He refused to talk about his 'lack of memory' re the smashed mirrors.
Accused me of having been abusive to him...? Talked about diary evidence he had on me.

His true vicious, nasty self in full swing. I challenged him and I got the full brunt of his anger.

He refers to my mood swings having started this Summer. Sure they did! They started in June, from the very first night I posted about my life on RC.

Fuck him, he is a nasty piece of work. As soon as I stopped going along with his plans he unleashes his true self.
This is why I wanted out.

Ok, I hear you all shouting 'told you so'. I'm obviously thicker then I thought I was though. Or found it harder to break myself off mentally from him. He's gotten to me again - I'm feeling like crap and guilty of something. He has me afraid and once more put in my place. I can't rise to his anger and maliciousness so will always come out the loser

NOt the loser. You are so winning. Like others have said, he is grasping at straws and scrabbling about to gain some footing. I think definitely tell your solicitor about his mental health issues. His "memory loss" over violent incidences. As I said before I think that memory loss over frightening incidences is more frightening than the incident itself.

But TMSB I haven't heard or seen from mine in over a year...does that mean he is winning??

Let's see..

A Wankers Itinery

1. Start out jubilantly on five hour drive to Heathrow
2. Stop for lunch on way - prawn sandwich washed down with Evian and, to read, a back-copy of Private Eye I keep hidden in my underpants for occasions when I need to look impressive and intelligent.
3. Polish raybans before leaving Little Chef then try to attract attention of other birds on the motorway in anticipation of shag-fest-life to come.
4. Get to airport. Feel excited at whole new irresponsible shaggery-doo life ahead. Buy a tie and a diving watch as I am bound to go diving. I am Different Now.
5. Dump car and post keys back to no-longer wife as I have just left her to shag whores therefore I am technically free and single.

3.Get on airport bus to the long-haul terminal

1. Buy baguette and polish raybans again.
2. Stupid wife has asked airport police to check I am ok. Of course I am fucking ok. I just got rid of all my children and exes and have nicked twenty grand and now I am catching a plane to thailand where all respectable middle-class men go. Fuckity-off mr silly copper-twat.
3. Get on plane
4. Order lots of tiny plastic bottles of wine and salted peanuts. Read FHM and pretend I am 19.
5. Polish raybans again (sunny as we fly into bangland}
6. Heave a huge sigh of relief as there is no CSA here and I can now flourish my CV which says I am a 'multi-talented self-starter with excellent teaching credentials and all my own lies teeth'
7. Find hotel, wash up, rub willy down with a damp cloth, polish raybans, go downtown.

10. Start being a wanker all over again.

Our Lord, Who art in Google,
Hallowed be thy search engine.
Thy lies be spun
My will be done
In Blighty as it is in bangland
Give you this day your dose of clap
And forgive you your shittiness
as I forgive you for the hell I had.
And lead me not back into the sticky web
but deliver me from doughnuts
For mine is the King Size Cone,
now and forever and hopefully you will be arrested and banged up just moments after paying for the flake.

Amen

Im also reading "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. Lundy Bancroft is very good. His book is based on the results of having councelled 2000 abusive men and their partners. He briefly mentions NPD, but the main focus of the book is the range of abusive behaviours. WHat I found interesting is how abuse can vary from man to man. So white, Anglo Saxon, middle class abusers have a big problem with their wife "answering back" or standing up for themselves. Whereas Latino men donT care as much about that but don`T allow their spouses any interaction with other men.
He also says that some very abusive men may be very helpful domestically, helping out a lot with the kids and housework, while at the same time demanding that a woman tell him all about her comings and goings. Another may allow his partner to have friends and encourage her in her work, but will expect to be waited on hands and foot at home. It was an interesting read.

ROFL at your last post UA.

Therealme nobody thinks you are stupid. You have always been clear and you know what you are dealing with.

They reel you in that's all. Don't be hard on yourself. It is just another twatty phone call from your ex designed to make you doubt yourself and feel terrible.

I am going to post below an email that my H sent to his german employer in march this year (he left in June of last year) just to show you how they discredit, lie and sabotage.

You have a court order. Fact.
I have a court order too - saying that my wanker has to pay all the divorce fees. Of course he wont, I will end up paying them. But it is the principle that matters. Justice has been seen to be done.

Try not engage with your h about anything other than the dcs. Let him blow and fire his worst. Do not engage. Tell your solicitor he is threatening and harassing you - tell your GP and tell your friends.

Hold fast girl.

Here is my h's email to his 'mate' (a presumably stupid and gullible bloke) This is 9 months after he abandoned us. At the time of writing this he has been living with his burmese girlfriend for 7 months in a lovely town house with a roof terrace. He is very depressed indeed

*
Dear TXXX

It?s taken me a long time to write as promised. As you can imagine, it?s been a pretty dismal time for me?. Yes, Amazonian and I split, and it seems she?s been phoning every contact of mine to mess me up as much as possible. I don?t really understand the mindset that makes her want to do that, especially considering it ended up being her idea that I go.

I actually hit a brick wall last year. Amazonian had given up work because of depression, so all the responsibility was on me to keep us going. I was getting up at 5.30 every day, working for an hour before school on lesson planning, getting home at 5, working on more school stuff, then bathing and putting our son to bed, then cooking etc., then spending another hour or more on german colluder work. Amazonian ignored all the warning signs. If I said I was tired, she?d just say ?we?re all tired?.

I ended up going a bit loopy, as you can imagine. At the same time as all of this was going on, Amazonian was fighting with her family (she basically cut all ties with the lot of them), my family were being useless as always, and my ex was being a complete pain in the arse. It was like living in the middle of a perpetual typhoon. I?m a pretty peaceable kind of chap, I was totally devoted to Amazonian and our family, despite everything, and I just wanted a quiet life. But in the time-honoured phrase, nothing was good enough for her.

So I thought ?sod the lot of you? and, after Amazonian had told me it was over for the last time, adding for good measure that she?d do everything she could to stop me seeing our son (she?d chucked me out before, then begged me to come back, only to then chuck me out again), I went to Heathrow and got on a plane. I was going to top myself but wasn?t brave enough. I?m more sanguine now, though it?s taken me months to find a little peace of mind. In fact, your work has been one of the things that have kept me sane. After leaving the UK I ended up in Cambodia but am now living in North Thailand.

That?s why at the moment it?s crucial that I get as much work as possible from you german colluders. Amazonian will take me for almost everything I?ve got, and I need to build something here for the moment. I?ve the time to handle anything you can send me.

TXXX I?m sorry you had to put up with Amazonian's fury. I don?t know what she said, or how often she phoned you, but I hope (and assume) that it?s stopped now. She used to pull that kind of trick when we were together, especially when she was drunk (which was every night). I had no idea that she was going to go that far in her anger.

I just want to be able to resolve things amicably with her, but I?ve no illusions about how difficult that might be.

I do hope you?re all well. And I hope your life contains nothing like any of these dramas. And thanks for getting in touch. You?re the only one of my friends who made an effort to do so, and I appreciate it.

Take care, and remember that my ?door? remains open like before if you have any queries or special projects etc

Analysis please note the phrase 'special projects' ho ho

NB, I am a raging furious lunatic drunk in charge of a 22 month old. So
watch out or I will come over and sit heavily with a view to possibly breaking any spare flowerpots you own.

I mean, you couldn't make this shit up TRM.

Pass the gingernuts.

a really good song to listen to