Should a SAHM do EVERYTHING to do with running the house?

[PrettyUselessHousewife]

Not sure this is the right topic but it's a major relationship issue for me and I could really do with some opinions from some more experienced parents.

My dh and I have been through a lot since my ds was born (over a year ago now) and I thought we were starting to get our relationship back on track. But then he said something about me being a housewife and now I'm not sure what to think

I thought I was staying at home to care for my ds, planning my day around taking him to toddler groups and such like. But my dh says I'm a housewife and the default position should be me doing all the housework, shopping, cooking, managing the finances etc with him helping out here and there.

I'm happy to take on doing more of the washing and general stuff like food shopping that's easier to do in the day, but I don't consider myself to be a "housewife" and I think we should share chores fairly equally. To me, it doesn't seem fair for my dh to sit on the sofa watching telly of an evening while I spend all my spare time on chores. But he says that's the role I've chosen

I just feel confused - I didn't think being a SAHM meant doing EVERYTHING but he thinks it does (even though he will help out if asked).

Am I being stupid? Is everyone else in my position doing EVERYTHING?

It's terrible that the term "housewife" is seen as so derogatory. My Mum used to call her occupation "household manager".

There is no "should". Inevitably, I believe, a full time SAHP will do more of the work involving the running of the household than a full time WOHP. But you have to negotiate a division of labour that is fair to both parties.

IMVHO, I think that if you only have one baby of a year, you ought to manage to fit your chores in during the day and not have to do them after supper! How much housework can one baby and two adults make?

I have never been in the position of having only one child, as I have two DSSs who spend half their time with us. When my DD was your DS's age, I never did chores at the weekend bar cooking meals - and I never, ever do chores after supper (though my days are quite long).

I think it is reasonable to expect your husband to help out when he is at home - with certain things.

For example, it's only fair that if you do the cooking he should wash and dry up, perhaps while you get five minutes with a cup of tea.

I also agree with the poster who said that you should be able to leave the house at the weekends without it being a palaver over him looking after your child.

The way my husband and I work (when he is around) is as follows:

Neither of us gets a lie-in unless we're unwell or it's a special occasion. We do breakfast between us and then, while my husband has a coffee and watches the boys, I run around loading the washing machine and getting sorted for the day. Basically, we help each other out.

When my husband isn't here (which is most of the time, sadly) then I find that a routine is vital to keeping on top of the havoc that two small boys make! If you get into a regular way of doing things, then you do get time to yourself - not just in the evening but during the day too.

Doing little and often is the key (or so my mother taught me - she ran a house with four lively children and a disabled husband). I have my cleaning done by lunchtime - certainly by 2pm - allowing me an hour or so to do things with the boys/read a book/have a coffee/tackle the admin - then it's dinner and bathtime and bed by 1930h. Usually the only chore I do after the boys have gone to bed is ironing - simply because I don't like the iron being on around a crawling baby. Once he's a wee bit older I'll return to doing it in the day.

I'm lucky in that when I have a big job to do that will take a lot of concentration, my Mum will take the boys so I can get it done without interruption. I also have health issues that flare up periodically and my Mum will help when that happens.

My husband always said that precision and routine were the key to running the house (based on his observations of my mother and me) but perhaps a military man would say that!

Maybe the starting point is, if OH is working 5 days, do you get one lie-in each at the weekend or is it your job to get up with the children.

If OH gets to lie in both days and you never get one then that is intrinsically unfair and a good place to start sorting things out.

Some of my friends have not had a lie in for 5 years. I would have gone mad by now.

I don't expect my dh to do hosuework as such but I do want him to tidy after himself. I have 4 dc's so my life is busy but then my dh works long hours aswell.
I think the general cleaning and managing the house (and finances) is my call and yes I always wash up and tidy kitchen after kids are in bed, which I also (mostly) do singlehanded.

However i do react when dh calls me a housewife - I am NOT married to the house.

I thought Solid made some really good points, that because the amount of work ouside the home done by each person varies from couple to couple, a good way to measure what is a fair split of housework is to measure how much free time each person gets and try to arrange it so that they both get equal free time.

The other point she made that struck me was that how much work involved in housework can vary depending on what standards you both expect. My DH doesn't expect to have to do any housework at all (not including childcare which he does do some of). If I was doing the housework to the same high standard of some people I know I don't think I would manage to do it all and do most of the childcare without getting stressed.

I only clean bathrooms once per week. I only wash up once per day so there is normally dirty crockery in the kitchen. I only iron DH's work shirts and DD's school uniform, everything else I fold up and put in a pile and hope it flattens itself! I don't always have time to put away clean laundry so it is often in bin bags lying around in our bedroom. I only dust and hoover when it is noticeably dirty and don't hoover under furniture or dust areas you can't see. I try to cook things that don't take very long. My standards are, so long as there is clean crockery to eat from and clean clothes to wear and nothing is so filthy that we are likely to get ill from it, then it is ok.

I expect DH to be satisfied with these standards if he doesn't want to help me do it, and he is.

I am SAHD now but my DW is also at home with me at the moment and we share all work equally.

She is going to be working F/T from January next year and I expect to do everything in the home from that point.

I want to be able to have free time with her and DSs when she/they come home not doing chores. I wil not expect her to do anything except perhaps her ironing. I will also have a bit of time to myself to work from home as well as our DSDs are 9 and 7 year old so they are out at school and after school care a lot of the time.

If DSs were younger children there would be a lot more 'caring work' no doubt about that and I woudl not be able to do anything more than just be a house husband.

I do not expect my DW to do anything when she gets home during the week form January. Helping out at weekends with the children yes of course I wil expect her to do that.

OP, you say that as your DS is 16months you can't do kitchen jobs whilst he is there, like what?
I have 3 children and if I need to do the kitchen they will be sat at the table with an activity, the 1yr old in his highchair. If I need to do the bedrooms I will put him in his cot with some toys, if I need to do the washing he can sit the washing pile whilst I do it around him etc so I can still get it done without him getting under my feet.

OP - this is how we work it:
in the beginning, bf'ing Ds was taking up to 2 hours at a time. I was knackered. DH undertook all the cooking and kitchen work because otherwise no one (apart from DS) would have been fed.

Because I was bf'ing, I did all the night work. In exchange for this (DH getting a full night's sleep every night) he continued to do all the cooking and kitchen cleaning (basic - I still do the floors etc). I do all the washing, drying, putting away. Vacuuming gets done when I can persuade DH to do it (I have sciatica) and although I don't expect him to do the tidying, I also expect him to not leave his stuff everywhere, making it more untidy.

I work from home as well as looking after DS full time; quite often my work is done after DS is in bed so I still get less sleep. DH gets 9-10 hours a night. Every now and then he whinges that he shouldn't have to do the cooking and the washing up as he WORKS - I remind him he gets to sleep.

Your DP is having a laugh at your expense there - he is seemingly very old-fashioned and I'm quite surprised he hasn't printed out the spoof 1950s "Ways to keep your husband happy" thing and had it framed for you, to keep you in your place. Doesn't sound like much of a partnership to me.

A SAHP should do the bulk of the housework if the other partner works - its only fair. If both WOH for the same hours then it should be split equally.

A SAHM can easily do the housework and spend quality time with a child and be able to spend time relaxing at night. Housework doesnt take that long if kept on top off and paying the bills online takes only a few minutes.

It depends- if he works full time outside the home, then why hsouldhe be expected to do another day's work when he gets home? That's one view!

I have been married over 20 years- during that time I was a SAHM, worked P/T when DCs were at home, and now still work p/t. DH works 12 hr days, goes away a lot and that includes overseas.

His "jobs" which he has chosen, include putting the rubbish out each evening, cutting the grass and picking up the occasional bit of food if he is in town and passing the supermarket. he also does all the DIY and 90% of decorating and more than 50% of ferrying kids around if needed.

I do- and always have done- all cleaning, cooking, shopping, laundry, gardening, looking after DCs, cooking evening meals (often 2 different ones as DS has allergies).

I chose to work p/t as he was away so much that we could not have managed without paid for child care and it was against my principles. We did without a lot of what other couples take for granted- holidays overseas etc- and put all our spare money into the mortgage. I did have a cleaner for a while when I was getting over an severe illness.

I think you need to negotiate and do what is right for you both.

I think barring violence and other abuse, there are no 'shoulds' in a relationship. Everything is up for negotiation IMO.

I find it quite odd that so many people are strongly of the view that SAHn should do everything. Do you ever get a lie in? What if you have 3 kids and they're all little buggers? What about when you're pg? TBH it should depend on the personal circumstances and people and children involved. This flat "SAHM must do everything of course she must" depresses me.

I don't think a SAHM should do everything, and think in most cases the husband wants to help out where the dc's are concerned which then means quality family play time and gives me a chance to either pop back to bed for an hour or to do something around the house.
I agree it should really depend on situations. For example, my dp had to do a bit more around the house and with ds when I was pregnant, now he does a bit more hands on stuff because there are 2 of the little people, but I don't expect him to come home and clean, on top of working a full week. Remember there's the travelling to and from for the out of home workers too. And tbh, I have found it very hard since the arrival of ds2, but I can manage to keep my flat in some sort of order.

Of course a SAHP shouldn't do everything, and I don't think the majority of the posts on here suggest that, just that as a SAHM it is quite possible to get most of the housework done on a regular basis and maybe if the OP were able to find easier ways to do them she wouldn't feel so put upon and could get time to relax in the evening.

See, I think a lot of SAHP give it the whole 'I was looking after the children' line when there is more they could do. I got it from DP just the other day when I worked and he had the children, (sadly as I'd used it so much myself I had to sigh and agree ). A lot of people do act as if they are completely void of doing housework because they are watching the children, but it is completely possible (most of the time) to do both.

So the question is 'Is the OP doing chores in the evening that she could fit into the day and therefore relax with her DH or does she have so much to do she has to carry on in the evening and DH is a lazyarse'.

OP if you are cleaning, tidying, hoovering, dusting, cooking, washing and pegging out during the day what else is there to do that takes up your weekends and evenings? The only thing I could think of was ironing (which we don't do ). I do think that it is unfair if your ds is not good at getting to sleep for your dh not to be doing half of the settling at least.

Springfleurs - definitely - the term housewife IS obsolete - that's where my anger was coming from. Maybe I need to tell dh to never refer to me as that if he wants a happy home! It even irritates me that it says that on our insurance documents. Household Manager is a much better term, Plimple. LOL at not being married to the house, whyme2!

Acting Normal - I like your style Good point about not trying to live up to other people's high standards. I think that's where a lot of my stress comes from but actually I don't want or need a spotless house.

Sorry I can't reply to you all - ds is determined to "fix" my keyboard with his hammer so I need to be quick. There are some great tips and lots of kicks up the backside for me really as obviously plenty of people are coping with three children and getting all the housework done by lunchtime

nooka - I think the issue is that because historically I haven't been on top of the housework for a LONG time (bad pregnancy followed by a ds who was VERY into breastfeeding and now it seems I'm just disorganised) there is a backlog of big jobs to do - decluttering, gardening, a year's worth of paperwork to file etc. Can never seem to get on top of it as there just isn't enough child-free time and everything takes hours longer with my ds around as he is a little adventurer - will always have to get to the highest point in any room/garden and doesn't take kindly to being removed

My DH cooks the evening meal, looks after the cars and cleans the cat litter trays.

I make sure he has lie ins in at the weekend. I do all the childcare (day & night plus nursing them both), housework and laundry (including ironing which I hate)

I think WOH and SAH jobs are very different. I can (in theory) have a break during the day to catch up with sleep, which is why I do all the night parenting. However in reality with two children this is near impossible and even if they do nap, I am still on call.

Sometimes I dream of a lunch break all to myself like my DH gets everyday. However he also has a hell of a drive twice a day and 40 hours of work confined to one building.

Saying that I love being at home and would not swap with DH for the world

I think it'd be brilliant if they did

I can't tell you how nice it'd be to come back from work every day and find a meal cooked and the house clean and tidy

also prettyuselesshousewife, I think there should be a big disclaimer on mumsnet somewhere that states 'please recognise that in the first couple of years after having a baby, there will be quite a bit of adjustment in your relationship with your partner and try not to get full of resentment and aim to resolve the issues over time' as so many people go through this sort of thing! So don't feel alone. You're in a period of adjustment and you'll eventually settle into a new way of doing things.

Hope you sort it out so you are both happy.

Ah, well I tink there is a huge difference between keeping things clean and tidy when you have a clean and tidy place to start from. I can quite see why you can't do what is in effect a Spring Clean with a toddler (I was thinking of a pre climbing on everything sort of one year old), nor full sort of paperwork, or de-jungling of the garden. I guess you have a number of alternatives:

One, get in help. A full house blitz or garden clear out probably wouldn't take a professional very long or actually cost that much. Think about whether that is a possibility. It should be a one off cost

Two, arrange some child free time. Either get dh to have your ds, or find a childminder or relataive for a few hours a week. Chunk the outstanding work into smaller bundles that can be done in a two or three our slot.

Three, divide the tasks into things you can do and things your dh can do at the weekend. Work out a reasonable schedule so that you both get free time, baby time and task time.

Four, schedule your time and work out how you can start to make inroads on the mountain of stuff that needs to be done. Reduce the routine stuff to a minimum (ie tidy and wash up as you go along, but vacuum rooms once a week for example), and replace with the spring clean type tasks. I expect the flylady threads might help with that. You have to be really realistic with yourself, and get a good balnce of work and free time so that it actually works, and you feel both in control and that you aren't gettign a raw deal. It may take some time, but if you wite the list of tasks on the fridge or somewhere visible and tick them off as you do them it will a) be visible to your dh jut how much stuff needs to be done, and b) give you a sense of accomplishment.

One thing to bear in mind is that unless you have a small house or flat when you have toddlers things will be much more chaotic and much less cleaner than before you had children, and that actually that is OK. There is even some evidence to suggest that children who are brought up in less sanitary conditions (like farms for example) have stronger immune systems.

The other thing is that you may have to get better at asking for help, or even just saying "this is what needs to be done, how shall we best accomplish it?"

Oops - sorry for the length!

cornsilk I bet you are a man!

No, a SAHM (or a SAHD!) shouldn't be expected to do everything around the home. It's quite reasonable for some of the chores to be shared at evenings and weekends. However, I do believe that if one parent is at home then they should do the lion's share. Mainly because it's just more practical that way. If you're at the office you can't put a wash on/shop/prepare dinner! Also, I really don't believe in this day and age that housework has to be a big deal. Throwing some laundry in the washer and switching it takes seconds. Not a lot needs ironing. There's no need to hoover every day. And another thing, is that when you do have jobs to do (shopping, sweeping up, preparing dinner etc) then I think it's good for children to be involved anyway. It's a great way for them to learn. Whisking them round to toddler groups non-stop is honestly not what kids want all the time - they are usually happy as larry pottering around the kitchen or playing around your feet.

The other thing to remember is that working outside the home carries a lot of responsibility in a different way to being in the home. You have to meet other people's deadlines and expectations. At the end of the day, being at home, no one is judging your performance. As I said on another thread, the only deadline I had to meet when I was home on ML with newborn, toddler and 4 yr old was getting us all dressed and walked to school by 8.45, which frankly was a piece of cake compared to getting kids up, off to nursery and then going to work all day. I even used to leave lo's in pj's in their buggy so only me and 4 yr old had to be dressed!

So, in short - no, SAHP should not do everything, but should accept that with that choice, they should take on responsibility for the majority of housework, shopping and general management of the home.