Dh never happy about our sex life

[dofuckoff]

so pissed off right now and need a third party perspective.
long term marriage.
dh always complaining that I don’t initiate sex enough. Long term complaint. Recently I’ve started to initiate (even though I don’t feel like I want it but usually am ok when I get going), and he’s started saying no because it’s not passionate/no effort from me, and I expect to just lie there and him to get on with it. I don’t but that’s what he feels. The more he complains the less I want it because I’m so pissed off now I’m initiating and he’s saying no.
I just feel like he’s always looking for a reason to be dissatisfied.
I just told him he’s being very feminine for wanting passionate, foreplay, effort sex and I said I’m not the one with the dick. He said he couldn’t believe how narrow minded I was being and went downstairs.
ok I’m a dick for saying all that but I just feel like he’s being a fucking princess and should be glad he’s getting any sex at all. His drive is very high (every day) whereas mine is pretty much non existent. No fucking surprises.

why throw away a 20 year marriage

The sunk cost fallacy. The fact that she has already wasted 20 years staying with someone who pesters her for sex and is moany, is not a reason to continue to do it.

Sorry, age or health has little to do with it most of the time? We all have different sex drives throughout all our lives too. My sex drive has had fluctuations throughout my life, depending on a lot of things, not my age.
Sex drive is complicated, for some people it can be dependent on so many things, how we perceive sex, ourselves, what's going on in our lives and those around us etc. Not age imo.

The OP, it sounds like their differences in sex drive for many years has become some sort of a power play guilt trip weirdness. They need to work through that.

Wow - what an absolute bitchy thing to say mid sex. Do the guy a favour and leave him.

probably not had the best messages about sex growing up.

he makes sure I orgasm first every single time, so the enjoyment part isn’t the issue: it’s getting to the enjoyment part sometimes.

To a certain extent, I see his point.
If you initiate but are not at all enthusiastic, for him to proceed would be completely wrong in my book. Enthusiastic consent Vs coercion basically.

I don't see why men don't need foreplay, most enjoy a hand job or oral, they might not need it to get hard but it's all part of sex right? In the same way as if a lady is turned on she might not 'need' foreplay, but it's, usually, still enjoyable. (Again, generalising here)

I'm not sure if there's an age gap but at early 40's thats not that old for his sex drive to still be high.

There are many more years ahead of you. Normally on these threads it because the woman is bearing the burden of the life admin, the kids, running the house etc, which of course will kill a sex drive! But you've not mentioned this, how is the relationship generally?
It doesn't sound like you're communicating well with this, could you consider counselling or seeing a sex therapist? I don't think sex as part of a relationship is unreasonsble.

Though I agree, daily is unreasonable and he shouldn't be getting in a huff with you if you say no! Hence the suggestion of counselling etc to help you have healthy communication.

If it's this unbearable, you need to think about splitting. Or, how would you feel about opening the relationship up for him to see other women on a physical basis? If everything else is good and you can set some clear boundaries about expectations on both sides, maybe this could help?

Ok it’s morning now and I’m not angry anymore - he changed his mind last night and came back up and brought the passion and effort with him, so he’s realised that he can’t just keep moving the goalposts and I’m going to keep jumping through them. If you want passionate sex , bring the passion and I’ll meet you there.

however I do agree we need to have a proper talk about this.

He wants to feel desired. He knows you don't desire him.
Sounds like you have fundamentally different needs and this issue isn't going to go away. You need couples therapy and if you can't find a way forward then you may have to separate.

I think essentially your husband would like you to want to have sex with him. You are initiating sex, but he knows it's not because you actually want sex with him. You initiate sex, but there's zero enthusiasm or real input on your part. I don't think your husband is unreasonable for feeling unwanted and unloved.

You might be having sex 3 times a week, but it's sex you don't want and aren't interested in. Your husband shouldn't be pestering you though, that's a sure way of putting you off sex. I will say though, you have some odd misconceptions regarding foreplay, and sex generally...men enjoy foreplay, just as much as women! I don't think these attitudes are helping. Men aren't robots, they do have feelings, emotions etc.

Sex is an important part of a relationship. No, it's not the be all and end all of it, but it's a fundamental part of it. You aren't unreasonable for not wanting sex, but equally your husband isn't unreasonable for wanting sex with his wife. If you don't want sex with your husband, then I think you need to be honest with him. If you think the lack of drive is hormonal, see your GP. My sex drive has been up/down over the years, the contraceptive pill, destroyed it. Perimenopause is now not helping either. In my younger years, my sex drive was crazy, but I often wonder if that was due to sexual chemistry with my then boyfriend!!

I completely agree that sex drive fluctuates but it’s one of the biggest indicators of health in women.

If this has been going on for many years then there’s a reason why OP has stayed.
Perhaps everything else has been perfect apart from this one issue.
I can’t see her leaving if she’s not left before now tbh.

OP needs to work out whether she naturally has a low sex drive (she has a very unhealthy attitude towards sex), whether it’s more of a medical thing that may change or whether the reason she has no sex drive is down to her DH.

If it’s genuinely a health issue then there may be hope to save the relationship.
If it’s not, then OP needs to just give it up and end things.

I can imagine OP living alone and not having to deal with any of this every day.

YABVU for accusing him of being ‘feminine’ for wanting sex that includes some actual interest and affection and some caring about each other’s pleasure. What the hell is ‘feminine’ about wanting a fulfilling sex life? Why does he have to be grateful because you throw him a few crumbs?!

If my only chance of sex was crap sex that I was expected to be grateful for even though it was obviously devoid of passion and affection, I wouldn’t want it either.

Can you explain how he’s bringing the passion and effort with him?

What are you doing during this time? Just lying on your back?

I couldn’t think of anything more of a turn off than a man who just lies there, never gives me passionate foreplay, never truly initiates things because he finds me so irresistible, never makes me feel special and desired.

You sound like you’re just a blow up doll.

Generally he helps out around the house, we go out as a couple often. The kids are older. We don’t really have any big issues, I just got angry last night because he’s gone on about initiating so much and last night when I did (and actually wanted it) he said I just wanted to lie there and have things done to me because I said I am tired but I would like to have sex. He said I always do that , talk about sex and say things like ‘let’s have sex and it puts him off because I’m planning it like a thing to tick off my to do list rather than letting it happen naturally. I have on an occasion (or two) said to him let’s do it so I can read my book 😂 … that does sound terrible but when you’re initiating for the other person then it is going to start off cold?!

I’m on a similar situation 20 odd years in. I enjoy once I get going but am exhausted!

I initiate and then he says what are you going to wear for me, erm nothing that’s the point - he expects some kind of outfit toys the lot every time - just ridiculous in real life with full time jobs and kids. Puts me right off and makes me feel like I’m not attractive enough without something added. I have tried telling him he’d get far more if he was up for sex when we can rather than some fucking performance

porn has skewed very much what men expect from sex to the detriment of women. If they don’t get a ‘performance’ they compare it with what they have seen and are disappointed and short changed. They don’t realise porn are actresses pretending.

Hi @dofuckoff

Those are some mighty interesting views on sex.

Sex isnt something men "do" to women. Both play a role. Many women play an active part in the process and it isnt always about a penis. Men shouldnt have to lead, thats just a rather unusual viewpoint. Sex isnt for men's benefit; it is for intimacy, connection and satisfaction for both parties.

I feel I am getting a slight bit of misogyny in your posts. Why is femininity a bad thing? Also not all women want passion and excitment with foreplay etc.

I think you see men as a mindless penis. Once he is hard why would it matter if you just lay there? Why would a man want foreplay etc? Because men arent mindless, many want connection.

Men dont see women as "just a hole". If they just wanted release theyd just have a wank.

Nobody (male or female) likes to have sex with someone who just lays there like.a cardboard cutout. People like to feel attractive and sexy to their partner.

I do think longer term infidelity is on the cards. Not 100% obviously but he is clearly giving you the message that he isnt happy sexually. I have known people say "I told you I wanted more intimacy, you wouldnt give it to me, so I went elsewhere."

I assume you have spoken about open relationships etc. Not advocating for them but with rules they can provide a solution. Not for most people mind and it would drive me insane.

He may sound reasonable to some, but should he also recognise that menopause causes declining libido (not sure how old OP is) So, it's his turn to initiate because she hardly feels like it. I wonder whether he's laying the groundwork with his demands for an exit or extra marital 'satisfaction'. OP, how would you feel if he went elsewhere ?. Do you still llove him ? I'm not saying you should cave to his demands it's just another marital hurdle . For some women, I've heard that their libido returns with a vengeance later on so you both might need to talk about this. Your marriage should not be purely about sec. Yes it's an important part for some, but so is understanding that we all change and things won't be the same after decades together. All the best OP. XXX

OMG this is almost worse than the sex issue. He sounds like a complete arsehole. Are you happy?

I actually didn’t realise I had these views about sex but it looks like they’ve surfaced in anger and now when I think about it honestly to myself , I mostly believe this and have believed it since forever.

Generally he helps out around the house

That doesn't sound like 50%. Does he do anything you find attractive? Does he do anything of effort outside the bed just for you?

(to me the constant restaurant moaning thing would be wildly unattractive and he wouldn't have lasted beyond the first dinner date)

But has he asked for a 'performance' or did he just want it to feel genuine?

Obviously he shouldn't be pestering or cajoling OP into anything. Equally, if sex (given that he's talked about passion in particular) is a fundamental way that he feels connected then dismissing that or, even worse, making it clear you're doing it even though you don't want to, means his needs in this relationship are going unmet.

Imagine if he refused to give OP a hug when she were sad and desperate for some emotional intimacy, then did it unwillingly as if it were the last thing he wants to be doing, and to add a cherry on top made a mean comment about her femininity in the process.

We really need to stop tarnishing all men as sex pests, when sex is a really fundamental part of intimacy for most people and, although no-one owes anybody anything, it is so beyond unreasonable to expect someone to be happy going without, or making do with a half hearted attempt at connection through it.

Sorry but I do see where your partner's coming from here. All he wants is for you to want it (want him) and you don't. It can be grounds for separation actually although it seems a bit unfair if you have a full life otherwise together, and you have to be honest in the fact if you dont he might get it from elsewhere if you keep making him feel shamed for wanting it or might just leave you. Youre right in the fact you're now doing it (trying to meet in the middle) but it sounds very begrudgingly on your part and we all know what a turn off that is, noone wants sex with someone who doesnt really want it married or not. He sounds totally excessive in his every day demand though, once a week maybe and with some counselling for your issues on both sides you MIGHT feel more inclined to do it now and again. Therapy does sound ideal for both of you. You to get back at least a scrap of passion and him for his excessive demand.

Wow. Sorry but it really does sound like you are the problem. I liked the previous posters analogy of the cooking meals. If you’d agreed to share the cooking 3 nights a week and he offered beans on toast, pot noodle and hotdogs as his 3 “meals” would that be considered a fair contribution? Your “hurry up and get on with it” or “let’s do it so I can read my book” are very much the sex equivalent. Technically you’re meeting your side of the bargain but it really is half arsed and I actually feel for your husband.
Some reflection for both of you is in order- him about his moaning tendencies and you about your unhealthy views of gendered sex roles and critical comments. I do think of you address these and connect on a
more honest level you could both really benefit. He needs to know that good connected sex 2-3 times per week would be a better solution than perfunctory duty sex every night.

You can’t win, by the sounds of it

Hmm. I don’t think he wants a porn perfomance - he doesn’t really care about dressing up under wear etc and usually says he finds me most attractive in my every day clothes (or naked obvs) He’s not a porn guy. I know he doesn’t watch it.
it probably is the fact he wants to feel loved and wanted.
I feel bad now.

This is totally a thing. For Women who’ve been in long term relationships sex very often becomes reactive not proactive. So most of us would be up for sex once touching etc starts, but would rarely initiate it. Where as sex is proactive for men. It’s absolutely a thing. And I think once you know this you work with it.

it’s the same for me. I’ve been with my partner over 20 years. And I’ve explained to him about how I don’t want it unless we start foreplay etc. knowing this has massively helped him understand why I never initiate.