Is my bf stingy, clueless or do I have unreasonable expectation?

[Gabitule]

I’m driving myself crazy trying to make sense of my bf’s behaviour. I am trying to figure out if he is stingy or just a bit ‘unusual’ (or perhaps I’m expecting too much).

For context: We’ve been together 2.5 years. We don’t live together. Neither of us has children (it’s too late for us now). He is reliable, honest, non-confrontational, gentle and non-critical. He earns a good salary, which is double what I earn. We both have disposable income but I have to be careful wirh my spending all the time.

My boyfriend organises events for us and pays for them, but these are mostly for things he wants to do. So overall he spends more than me on our relationship. I never ask to be taken out at his expense, and I never suggest expensive hobbies. I organise things which are cheaper or free and which reflect what I can afford. For example I’d cook a nice meal to reciprocate for him taking me out to an event.

Some behaviour I find unusual:

For our first Christmas together (just the 2 of us), I hosted and paid for all food and drinks from X Eve to Boxing Day eve. I cooked/organised everything. When he asked what to bring, I said two bottles of Bucks Fizz as I forgot to buy them, and that is literally all he brought. No extra treats, no festive gestures other than a jar of cranberry sauce which he wanted and knew I wouldn’t have already bought.

For our second Christmas together (Xmas eve to Boxing day eve) which I also offered to host because he can’t really cook, I asked him to contribute financially. Given that I had paid the bill in full the year before, I hoped he would offer to cover the entire bill this time. Before I even placed the supermarket food order, he randomly transferred £60 into my account towards the food bill. I do appreciate that £60 not a small sum and one can reasonably assume that it covers more than the cost of food and drinks for one person over the festive period, so maybe he genuinely thought he was being generous. But I found it odd that he transferred the money without asking me how much the food costs.

When I calmly asked how he came to £60 or why he didn't ask what the bill actually was he became defensive, deflected, and I didn’t get a straight answer.

Another example:

If I organise a party with friends or a nice dinner, he’ll ask if I need or want him to bring anything. I tend to say no, because I don’t ‘’need’’ anything. So he doesn’t bring anything. But it would be nice if he brought something, in the same way me and my friends bring each-other wine, flowers or chocolate if we visit each-other for dinner (despite also telling each-other that we don’t need anything). At the same time, if I gave him a list of things to bring, he would 100% do it.

On more than one occasion, he brought wine or beers to a dinner/ party at my house but kept it hidden in his bag the entire time, never offered it, and took it back home with him the next day. The first time I randomly discovered the bottle in his bag I told him I found it weird but he has since done it again. Of course I asked why he bothered to bring the bottle if he didn’t plan to give it to me or didn’t even tell me he had it in case it was needed, but I could never get a clear answer out of him, regardless of how I approached the issue.

When we meet his friends he organises nice meals out and fancy cocktail bars.

What is actually happening here? Why bring a bottle of wine, keep it hidden and then take it back home? Why repeat the behaviour after being told him that I found it so weird?

Could his actions come from a calculated, transactional kind of stinginess that perhaps he is not even aware of? Or is he just wired differently and doesn’t have the necessary emotional intelligence to know how he should act?

Equally, is it possible that the issue is a non-issue? Am I being hypocritical in calling out what I perceive as his stinginess when, although I would bring a bottle of wine and chocolates to his special dinner, he spends more than me overall on our holidays and activities (because he has more expensive taste)?

I can’t figure him out at all, and I am normally so good at figuring people out. The issue is not about the amount of money but the gesture and what it symbolises and I am desperate to know if he is calculated or just a bit clueless. I cannot stand stingy people, it’s a massive turn off for me.

I am so confused.

Do you want a cookie for the most supercilious post of the day?

it was more important for this man to see himself as the Generous, Thoughtful Type.

Exactly what the OP BF is doing by bringing the wine, hiding it, then taking it home.

I think the OP has certain expectations, as do I, it may be a generational thing?? I was taught to always take a gift for the host, it's good manners and polite. If I go to my BF for the weekend I will take treats that we like, a bottle of fizz whatever, we never turn up empty handed, it's not that it's needed but it's just good manners!

I don't think the OP is well suited to her partner. She clearly values kindness, thoughtfulness, and the little things that make someone feel appreciated. He seems to be trying to mirror her actions, but they don't hit because he comes across as quite mean-spirited and reluctant to put in the same effort and for his gain only.

Predominantly tight with a bit of social clueless (or doesn't care ie the wine). You're on different pages when it comes to being " equal" and generous. Is it something you can live with?

@AbsolutefuckinglegendII the more I read your message, the more it makes me think.
We come from different cultures. My background is more traditional, the man provides more and the woman cooks and cleans more (wirh both partners working but the man contributes more money and the woman contributes more labour). I believe he’s more the kind of person where everything is split more evenly. Earlier in the relationship he said that he sees his role as a ‘protector and provider’ but, when asked what he meant by it, he wasn’t able to explain. He hates cleaning and cooking, so I thought we’d complement each-other well when we live together. Plus, it wouldn’t be fair for us to pay for bills 50/50 but for me to do the cooking and cleaning. Of course I told him how I see things and he agreed. But I need to talk to him again and understand if he is agreeing with me because he sees things in the same way or because he absolutely detests any sort of disagreements. He never lived with anyone before so I can’t ask him what he did in previous relationships.

Very much depends on whether you take people at face value, are a literal thinker or have ASD.
I cannot stand this whole ''said one thing, meant another and I am now going to despise you for literally doing what I said because you should have known I meant something different''
FFS🙄

I completely agree that generosity is not just about money, which is why I am so sad.

And yes, I do want those men who take initiative, can communicate, etc. I’ve been wirh men like that so I know they exist but, in my case, they had other issues: one had a drinking problem, another couldn’t stop sleeping with his ex, another had commitment issues, another moved abroad… So I am not deluding myself that some amazing guy will come along. I do think (most of) the good ones are already taken.
On balance, my life is better wirh him in it than being on my own. But he needs to start talking to tell me who he is and what he wants as there is no way I can spend my life trying to figure him out.

You're playing into that stupid stereotype of women being complicated and not saying what they want. Do better.

He enjoys the company of someone who is great at cooking and wears a pretty dress that he has chosen to impress work colleagues/ friends. A beautiful/ pretty woman who fits his lifestyle. He earns and spents more money and that in his eyes is the trade-off. That is why it doesnt make sense to him. He doesnt want to cook because he pays others or looks for best way for others mostly women do it for him. You need someone to take a turn at cooking when u have come from work too when you are tired. Xmas dinner this year is going to be £200.....remind him £100 is 50%.... you match his energy and become transactional as he is. Let him know a month in advance so he wont forget. Women are brought up to acquiesce to needs of men and be kind or caring to their needs so show him you are an equal not a resource.

'We come from different cultures. My background is more traditional, the man provides more and the woman cooks and cleans more (wirh both partners working but the man contributes more money and the woman contributes more labour). I believe he’s more the kind of person where everything is split more evenly. Earlier in the relationship he said that he sees his role as a ‘protector and provider’ but, when asked what he meant by it, he wasn’t able to explain. He hates cleaning and cooking, so I thought we’d complement each-other well when we live together. Plus, it wouldn’t be fair for us to pay for bills 50/50 but for me to do the cooking and cleaning. '

You don't live together !

So why all this talk from you about cooking and cleaning ?

Are you believing this is the next step in the very near future ?

besides would it really be 50/50 for bills if you did live together ? as you can't afford that can you ? with him earning so much more than you.

so you would be agreeing to either put in the same amount of money each say £800 and if you only have £800 left over and he has £2,800 left over that's because he earns more.

or you would pay 30% of the bills while he pays 70% of the bills etc, in proportion to each of your earnings ?

He is already paying more on holidays, or he has to compromise by going to an airb+b and eating in.

Here’s an example of how he responds, it drives me craaaazy. Nobody has ever made me feel more furious

me: why did you transfer £60?
him: well, how much does it cost?
me: I haven’t yet placed the food order so I don’t know how much it will cost. I’m asking as I’m curious why you sent me £60, why not £40 or £70 etc? What is £60 based on?
him: if £60 is not enough, tell me how much more I need to send you.
me: I’m not saying £60 is not enough, I don’t know how much the food will cost. I’m only asking as I’m trying to understand you, this is not a criticism.
him: well, tell me how much it costs once you know and, if £60 is not enough, I’ll send more.

He will simply not answer my questions. If it escalates he goes into victim mode ‘’i am the most horrible boyfriend, from now on I’ll send you all my money, etc etc’

i don’t think he is malicious, just immature.

or

me: why did you bring wine, kept it in your bag and then took it back home?
him: you said you didn’t need wine.
me: that’s true, so why did you bring it? And, if you did bring I as a gesture, why didn’t you give it to me?
him: well, you said you need wine.

half an hour later and after many attempts to explain what I mean, I start getting really upset and frustrated and threaten to end the relationship due to the mindfuck that is his communication

him: what’s the issue, explain again what the issue is, I don’t understand

so I explain again

and we go back to the beginning.

Eventually he says ‘’I am the worst bf ever, from now on I’ll bring wine every time I come over etc etc.

there we go!

Yes, we are talking about moving in together.

Yes, I can afford 50% of the bills, I just can’t afford to spend hundreds of pounds on events/ hobbies.

yes; I think it would be fair for each of us to pay £800 for bills and for him to keep much more disposable income. It’s his money! But I don’t think it’s fair for each of us to pay £800 and for me to do 70% or the cooking and 90% of the cleaning.

I appreciate he has to compromise by choosing my cheaper accomodation, but I am simply not able to compromise by going with his more expensive choices. The ‘cheaper’ accomodation i choose is already a bit more expensive than I would normally choose (if I went on holiday wirh a friend who has the same disposable income as me).
In this scenario the compromise can only be his

It clearly didn't cross his mind that you had an unspoken expectation about how much he'd contribute and were then disappointed that he didn't magically meet it.

I can't see this relationship lasting, tbh.🤔

Boyfriends behavior isn’t normal. He is very stingy. And your comments are needlessly rude. And it is you who were very transactional and quite unpleasant dumping a man for the wrong kind of flowers and chocolate. Nothing wrong with it but you can’t blame her for being unreasonable when you pride yourself on having dumped a man for similar behavior.

Is he refusing to cook / clean / do laundry if you live together

He could pay for a cleaner to do his share with his additional high income.

You can't communicate with each other, please don't move in together, it'll be a disaster.

"there is no way I can spend my life trying to figure him out" but he is showing you, exactly who he is @Gabitule

He is a ~50 year old man displaying behaviour that typically reflects his true priorities. He sees his financial resources as purely for his own enjoyment.

He has low empathy, he struggles to see how his actions hurt you.

Rather than addressing your concerns and your explanations, he becomes defensive and deflects you raising it with him, into him interpreting it, as a sweeping attack on his entire character so he says crap like;

"Eventually he says ‘’I am the worst bf ever, from now on I’ll bring wine every time I come over etc etc."

No doubt this tactic probably works when, you, as the more generous one, stops talking about your boundary and may even say, along the lines of "No, you're not the worst, I didn't mean it like that." and so he shuts you down, again

Essentially, @Gabitule it appears that you have high empathy and are emotionally mature, he has neither, sadly.

He could take on board your concerns, but from all the interactions you've described, he is neither prepared nor willing to do so.

He will not change, you are making far more effort within your relationship and should you decide to actually move in together your dynamic will not magically improve.

A lot for you to think about but use your head @Gabitule, not your heart 🌺

She just found it funny.

She knows that my Dad just doesn't think like that. He's not sentimental and wouldn't even register that it's his own birthday, if we didn't tell him, let alone remember a date significant to someone else. That came to a head when it was something random like the anniversary of my Nan going into hospital (Mum's Mum who then died a couple of months later) and she was upset but he was completely oblivious to the significance of the date (Mum remembers alllll dates that affect her and others). He got an earful. A bit ridiculous, in my opinion, but I guess grief can do that to people. Anyway, he and I sat down and put as many dates in his phone as we could think of so he could be on hand, with his softer side, for Mum, when she needed it. It was absolutely forced and unnatural but he couldn't miraculously start remembering dates and acting on them.

People can't change who they are or what comes naturally to them. I've learned, for example, that what's obvious to my Mum is completely missing from my line of thought. It doesn't mean I love or care for her any less - I just think in a completely different way.

I havent read replies but this my take.

He is stingy unless asked directly (which he probably worked out you won’t do often). He is ok to organise meet ups with friends in fancy bars because that is about showing off so he sees the value in doing that. I bet his friends are of similar or higher ‘status’ so this is about leveling up etc.

Reading that reminds me of some conversations with my DH. It doesn't matter how clearly I explain something, he just doesn't get it.

Since finding out he's autistic we can now laugh about it when it comes up but early on in the relationship it would drive me up the wall.

If you really do like/love him and want to stay with him, perhaps just accept it's a quirk of his personality, roll your eyes internally and move on. And if you want flowers or chocolates either ask him to bring them in or buy them yourself because he's probably never gonna do it himself unfortunately ❤️

Do Not Move in together

They wouldn't need a £90 turkey for two people! £60 would probably easily cover his contribution. But also if he doesn't cook he won't know he is more ch things cost.
If I invite people for Christmas dinner I don't expect them to contribute anything.
I don't think he sounds mean or stingy at all, he asked what she wanted him up bring and he brought what she said, he pays when they go out including for meals out which can't be cheap.
It sounds as though he is someone who takes things literally so if OP wants him to contribute more she should tell him.

If he asked and you said no, then yabu

I caught up with the thread now.

What stands out the most is, your bf, when challenged or asked a simple question goes on to defect and blame you, he seems to be very good at getting you to explain yourself, over and over again. And then asks you to explain some more because he ‘doesnt understand’. And you happily go on this marry go round.

Such behaviour is a manipulation technique. Do you find yourself exhausted and confused by the end of those conversations? Do you feel like you’re not making sense? Do you regret asking the question/bringing up the issue in the first place?

If the answer is ‘yes’, his technique is working. As time gies by you will be less and less likely to bring up issues because you will doubt yourself and you will know any discussion will leave you confused and mentally exhausted.

Why are you so insistent you need to ‘understand how his mind works’? You don’t need to. Fact is, some stuff just makes no sense and leaves you baffled. And talking to him brings even more confusion with him playing the victim. Who cares why he is like that? It’s not working for you, is it. That’s what matters.

No problem. I can understand your questions and thoughts. I can also see it from the other side. Rather than condemn someone, one way or the other, I think it's most helpful to shine a light on the possible alternatives so someone seeking input from outsiders can weigh it all up, in the round. It's food for thought ☺️

All these people saying it's dead in the water. It may be... It may not be. None of us can know because it's a feeling personal to you.

What I would say, if you want to give this a go, is to have a conversation with him. Explain, in black and white, what you want / expect and ask him to do the same. Set out however it is you feel about him but the issues of X, Y and Z make you question how he feels about you and what the prospects of the relationship are. He needs to know it's a serious one!

Also, I do get that this isn't a "who spends what" thing - it's about what the spending reflects or, more importantly, the thought that goes into it.

I'm crap at small gestures, always have been. I try to show my love in other ways on a daily basis, for example, unless something really bothers me, I'll go with my husband's preference - he knows I do this and he really appreciates it. Then I like to arrange a big, occasional gesture (night or weekend away, sort of thing) where everything has some meaning... I'll spend months on it! But, even then, we often have part of it where I say I have absolutely sweet FA planned so we can do whatever he wants and be spontaneous.

I do hope you work things out. Please update us, if you do have a chat ☺️