Is my bf stingy, clueless or do I have unreasonable expectation?

[Gabitule]

I’m driving myself crazy trying to make sense of my bf’s behaviour. I am trying to figure out if he is stingy or just a bit ‘unusual’ (or perhaps I’m expecting too much).

For context: We’ve been together 2.5 years. We don’t live together. Neither of us has children (it’s too late for us now). He is reliable, honest, non-confrontational, gentle and non-critical. He earns a good salary, which is double what I earn. We both have disposable income but I have to be careful wirh my spending all the time.

My boyfriend organises events for us and pays for them, but these are mostly for things he wants to do. So overall he spends more than me on our relationship. I never ask to be taken out at his expense, and I never suggest expensive hobbies. I organise things which are cheaper or free and which reflect what I can afford. For example I’d cook a nice meal to reciprocate for him taking me out to an event.

Some behaviour I find unusual:

For our first Christmas together (just the 2 of us), I hosted and paid for all food and drinks from X Eve to Boxing Day eve. I cooked/organised everything. When he asked what to bring, I said two bottles of Bucks Fizz as I forgot to buy them, and that is literally all he brought. No extra treats, no festive gestures other than a jar of cranberry sauce which he wanted and knew I wouldn’t have already bought.

For our second Christmas together (Xmas eve to Boxing day eve) which I also offered to host because he can’t really cook, I asked him to contribute financially. Given that I had paid the bill in full the year before, I hoped he would offer to cover the entire bill this time. Before I even placed the supermarket food order, he randomly transferred £60 into my account towards the food bill. I do appreciate that £60 not a small sum and one can reasonably assume that it covers more than the cost of food and drinks for one person over the festive period, so maybe he genuinely thought he was being generous. But I found it odd that he transferred the money without asking me how much the food costs.

When I calmly asked how he came to £60 or why he didn't ask what the bill actually was he became defensive, deflected, and I didn’t get a straight answer.

Another example:

If I organise a party with friends or a nice dinner, he’ll ask if I need or want him to bring anything. I tend to say no, because I don’t ‘’need’’ anything. So he doesn’t bring anything. But it would be nice if he brought something, in the same way me and my friends bring each-other wine, flowers or chocolate if we visit each-other for dinner (despite also telling each-other that we don’t need anything). At the same time, if I gave him a list of things to bring, he would 100% do it.

On more than one occasion, he brought wine or beers to a dinner/ party at my house but kept it hidden in his bag the entire time, never offered it, and took it back home with him the next day. The first time I randomly discovered the bottle in his bag I told him I found it weird but he has since done it again. Of course I asked why he bothered to bring the bottle if he didn’t plan to give it to me or didn’t even tell me he had it in case it was needed, but I could never get a clear answer out of him, regardless of how I approached the issue.

When we meet his friends he organises nice meals out and fancy cocktail bars.

What is actually happening here? Why bring a bottle of wine, keep it hidden and then take it back home? Why repeat the behaviour after being told him that I found it so weird?

Could his actions come from a calculated, transactional kind of stinginess that perhaps he is not even aware of? Or is he just wired differently and doesn’t have the necessary emotional intelligence to know how he should act?

Equally, is it possible that the issue is a non-issue? Am I being hypocritical in calling out what I perceive as his stinginess when, although I would bring a bottle of wine and chocolates to his special dinner, he spends more than me overall on our holidays and activities (because he has more expensive taste)?

I can’t figure him out at all, and I am normally so good at figuring people out. The issue is not about the amount of money but the gesture and what it symbolises and I am desperate to know if he is calculated or just a bit clueless. I cannot stand stingy people, it’s a massive turn off for me.

I am so confused.

I think hes just very literal. He asked what you want and you said nothing and he took that at face value.

And tbh when hes taking you out hes not asking anything from you either. Sounds like financially he pays for you and doesnt seem to mind hes taking you out and you dont reciprocate.

Youre taking it literally too, he says what do you "need" and you say "nothing"

I think if you want this to work youd be better saying Id really like if you would bring X

He sounds stingy, self-centred and unimaginative - tho' possibly nice enough in other ways. Sounds like you need to take the upper hand and TELL him your expectations, what he needs to do / provide to appear less selfish and self-centred. If he can't step up, I sense that his meanness will eventually give you the ick to the extent you'll bring the relationship to a close.

Re latest update yes I think that’s it. He’s not tuning in to (doesn’t care about?) your priorities.

It depends doesn’t it?

Do you want a boyfriend who needs guidance on simple stuff like this all of the time, who can’t cook, and can’t take the initiative and think about what you would like, what would be appropriate, and what he would like to bring you?

Do you want a bf who literally does what you ask and no more?

Or do you want a bf who thinks for himself, takes the initiative, finds out what might he appropriate but then actually wants to add to it off his own bat without anyone telling him or him asking?

It’s about a certain approach to life and generosity of spirit and if his “careful” approach, which some would call a bit miserly and selfish, extends to other areas of his life and not just social situations then I think op would be well shot of him honestly.

But that’s bc I think women deserve men who don’t do the bare minimum, who don’t close themselves off from important discussions, who don’t hoard wine bottles in their bags, and who don't play the “I’m hard to read” game!

Women deserve men who are loyal, straightforward, and unequivocal, who are unselfish, who don’t need to be given instructions all of the time and who make it demonstrably clear through their actions that they are all in. Life is too short to spend time trying to figure them out.

I find this incredible! How entitled is this? I would never charge someone money for food or drink if I invited them to my house for dinner (regardless of who they were). Plus the fact that he pays for everything when you go out and contributes more. He’s the one who should be complaining! You sound very mean with money.

It's honestly really difficult to say whether:

1. He has a strange approach to money / spending with / on you; or
2. This is a non-issue: or
3. You have a strange approach to money / spending with / on him.

At the risk of coming across as contrary (I'm not trying to be, just, perhaps a different way of looking at things) I actually think number (3) might be it, sorry, OP.

Stepping into his shoes... He has more money than you and might not fully appreciate how much money you don't have (regardless how much you tell him!). His approach could, quite simply, be that you're both mature adults, with proper jobs, so finances shouldn't be an issue by now. As reasonable as it is that you don't have endless cash, he might find it strange that you've not got yourself into a position whereby you have more. I'm not condoning that, by the way.

With the Christmas meal, and how much he sent to you, his approach sounds very much as yours is to hotels - why do you need to spend more than that? You may want a turkey at c.£100, he may have been content with a chicken at c.£6. You could do 3 days of meals for two people on £120 (if you're splitting it) or you could easily spend north of £500.

As to him bringing things to yours, if you're cooking for him then I expect he's taking the view that you're doing something for him, so he's not going to contribute. The thing he seems to do for you is take you on holiday. Maybe he's actually biting his tongue about his gesture being to take you away, and yours being to cook for him. Perhaps, really, he'd expect a bit more thought and something on the extravagant side, as that seems to be his preference (just as you seem to want the simple things - some flowers). I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, it just sounds as though you may have different ideas on life / a relationship and they don't quite marry up.

The wine bottle in the bag does sound weird on the face of it. I feel like there's more to it and, possibly, as said above, some element of him biting his tongue that you're not doing enough and he perhaps resents it a bit. He may feel as though, as his girlfriend, you doing the thing you want to do (hosting a party for your friends and him attending to keep you company when he doesn't really want to be there, in a way akin to him going out with his friends and you not really wanting to spend your money on it because it's not your thing) is for you to pay for. I also think the idea that he switches from "boyfriend" to "guest", and so the expectations of guests applies, is really very odd and not typical of a 2.5 year relationship. Alternatively, you've set out that he seems to like the finer things in life. Has he perhaps brought quite an expensive bottle with him and, therefore, doesn't want to share it? Some people just don't enjoy naff wine, and would rather not drink anything - he may be one of those people, so brought something spenny but felt the moment wasn't right to open it, and so he took it home. It's odd, sure, but not necessarily wrong. There's a lot of cheap wine I cannot abide but I just wouldn't take something to a party I wasn't happy for people to share because I think it's not how it works at parties - usually, the host stocks the fridge to a degree, everyone brings drinks, it all goes into the mix and it's a free for all from there. I don't think it's strange for him to see himself as boyfriend and not guest, and therefore to assume you'd have catered for his "contribution" in the initial stocking of the fridge.

I also wonder whether your approach about how to split paying for things has made the whole financial situation seem transactional and so he's just fitting into that. Don't get me wrong, I totally get it that you can't afford the spending he wants to do, but it may come across that every event has a conversation or comment about money attached to it. If he thinks he's spending a lot on you, he may think you're a bit tight and so is reluctant to contribute to "your" things.

It's worth remembering you're not married, for a reason, so a conversation around expectations and money is probably worth having. If you do, be ready to hear some things you may not like / agree with, regardless how reasonable / explainable your position / take on things is.

Personally, I find the behaviour odd on both sides. If I was hosting a party and I invited my boyfriend, I'd be sure to cater for him, specifically, and want to show him I'd done as much. If I was him, I'd perhaps find it a bit odd to be treated just the same as any guest, rather than a partner. I wouldn't expect my boyfriend to bring me a gift, as if he was a guest, to my party (not that I expect gifts from my guests - when people ask what they can bring, I always say some alcohol will never be unappreciated but there's no pressure) that would just be strange. I'd also be telling him advance what I've bought for him, drinks-wise, so he really shouldn't bring anything.

It might just be that you and your boyfriend are on completely different pages.

I'm not going to tell someone that I ‘need’ flowers or chocolates, because I don't actually need those things but I would be delighted to receive them when these are given from the heart. To me, generosity and thoughtfulness are about someone wanting to do something nice for you without being prompted, not someone responding to a request for an item.

That's your view, and no-one should tell you that you are wrong to have it. But not everyone thinks that way, and not everyone has the skills to make it work.

I don't want someone forcing themselves to be generous or doing it resentfully just because they've been told they should.

@Gabitule you've rather backed yourself into a corner here. You're saying that

• a certain behaviour is important to you;
• your boyfriend doesn't naturally exhibit that behaviour
• AND that you don't want him to fake it.

Seems like you're just not compatible.

I think you're right about the incompatibility.

Funny anecdote... My Dad very rarely bought / buys my Mum flowers. He's a good man but showed / shows his love in other ways. My DH, on the other hand, has always bought me flowers (from the early days of dating to years down the line being married and living together). My parents know my DH is a bit of a romantic and we all live in the same town.

The amount of times my poor Dad would get raised eyebrows, or a comment, from my Mum when they came round and saw DH had bought me more flowers 🤣

Then, one day, DH went into the local shop to get some flowers for me on his way home from work, bumped into Dad in the queue... Dad saw the flowers, made some sort of joking "oh, piss off!" comment, left the queue and went to get Mum some flowers 🤣

I hasten to add, my DH and Dad get on very, very well.

You're missing the point... She doesn't need a token of appreciation, it's good manners and polite to offer one.

You’re right, I have been thinking about this. I guess he is just not naturally thoughtful/ generous so i’ll have to see if I can adapt my expectations. I haven’t had this issue with my previous partners (with one exception) so I know how harmonious a relationship can be from that point of view (but, of course, there were other issues that meant the relationships had to end). It’s just a bit disappointing as, in my view generosity is is linked to kindness and selflessness. I don’t know what I’m saying really… The other day I was visiting my friend. Her partner came from work and got out 2 mangoes from his bag and told my friend that he got them as he knew how much she likes mangoes. So sweet! My boyfriend would never do that. My boyfriend once came to spend a week at my place and brought food items only for himself (of course I had already bought food for both of us but, when getting additional stuff for himself, he didn’t think to buy anything that I could also have). You see, all these things just don’t feel right :(

OP you're doing a LOT of patting yourself on the back for being generous and selfless. Do you want a cookie for that?

You've also said that getting little things for other people makes you feel good. Doesn't that mean you're doing it for your benefit as much as someone who takes you somewhere they also enjoy is doing it for their benefit?

The thing with your approach is that you end up being one of those people who are "generous" all the time but in ways that aren't necessarily wanted. One man I dated ages ago used to buy me flowers and chocolates. I don't like or care about flowers in the slightest. I do like chocolates but not cheap supermarket shit. I told him that and yet whenever he came to my place and passed a Sainsbury's I'd get cheap flowers and cheap chocolates. My housemate at the time was bowled over by how thoughtful he was. I was just annoyed, and then I dumped him. I'm a literal person who likes to choose her own treats and doesn't like surprises - your need for treats that you haven't asked for is a bit alien to me.

You're also the one who's being really transactional about it all, totting up the amounts here and how much enjoyment they derive from it versus how much they're martyring themselves. I genuinely couldn't tell you the equivalent ratio of how DH and I have treated each other over the years, even though it hasn't always been equal, because it hasn't really mattered. I just can't fathom the idea of someone paying for my holiday or a fancy meal, and thinking they weren't generous enough because they enjoyed themselves too.

But you decided to host and therefore how complex or simple (and how cheap or expensive) the event was was down to you

If I was asked to bring a bottle of wine I'd bring a bottle of wine.
I've asked... I shouldn't have to be second guessing and then be judged as failing due to not being a mind reader.

I honestly can't work out what he's supposed to have done wrong there. If OP wanted a specific amount she could have told him that amount at any point in their communication. Absent a specific amount I think £60 is a normal and generous guess for half a Xmas meal for two.

Why do people spend time replying but they don’t bother to read the posts they’re replying to? I don’t get it. Or is the issue a lack of comprehension?

Imagine you have a long term partner that you don’t live with. Every year you celebrate Xmas togeher. Because you’re the only one who can cook and your house is nicer/ warmer you host Xmas every year. Does that mean that every year for the rest of your life you should be the only one buying the food, paying for it and cooking it? And nothing should be expected of him because you are ‘’hosting’’ him?

I have already said that I have cooked DOZENS of meals for him without expecting anything and without being upset when he didn’t turn up with anything. That’s different. But Xmas is not an event I invented, it’s Xmas for both is us. We both want a nice celebration.

No, he doesn’t pay for everything when we go out, I’ve also explained that. Again, imagine you and your partner both agree to do something at the weekend. You obviously both pay for it. But if the following week he asks you to join him for an event that you’re not bothered about, would you pay for your ticket even if it’s something you wouldn’t normally go to (because you don’t like it or you don’t have the money?). I sometines say no, but I can’t say no every time because that would reduce the time we spend together that week. I always buy a round of drinks when we go to the event to say thank you.

But I did go through the menu with him (since this was OUR Xmas meal), asking for his preferences for meats, drinks, deserts. Why didn’t he tell me if he thought I was overdoing it?
it didn’t cross my mind that he would have a cap on the Xmas budget given his willingness to spend silly money on other things/ hobbies.

Hiding booze it wierd of him. But expecting money for christmas hoasting is strange.

‘’Do you want a cookie with that?

Why are you being patronising? And why do you feel you can pass judgment on me, you who dumped a boyfriend because the chocolates and flowers he kept bringing you were too cheap for your liking

But if your mother knew the circumstances in which the flowers were bought, would she have still enjoyed them?
I have a friend who ‘forces’ her husband to buy her flowers and is happy when he does. I wish I was like that, it would resolve lots of issues, but I just can’t rewire my brain to feel differently about things. I could only enjoy the flowers if he bought them unprompted, because he thought of me and thought I might like them.

I agree with all of this. Apart from bringing and not giving the wine, he sounds perfectly reasonable. You may have to be more direct with him.

Then you're with the wrong bloke, because he's never going to do that.

This is a basic incompatibility thing. He's not in the wrong, you're not in the wrong, you just don't match.

I'm being patronising because you're wilfully refusing to accept that you may have communication issues of your own, that your boyfriend's behaviour is fairly normal and that your standard of generosity isn't a universal one.

You even wilfully misread the example from my own life I used to illustrate this - the point wasn't that the chocolates were cheap, it was that a particular type of generosity was being foisted on me even though I didn't want it, because it was more important for this man to see himself as the Generous, Thoughtful Type.

What you call mind-reading, I would call standard courtesy and thoughtfulness. Do not see what the problem is! it’s hardly rocket science or exactly burdensome to work out what someone hosting Christmas might like or need!

Hence he asked her what she wanted him to bring. And she said wine, so he did.

If I'd gone out of my way to offer to bring someone what they wanted, and they said they wanted a specific thing but didn't mention anything else... why would I bring anything other than that specific thing?

Do you not see how it's incumbent on the person answering that question to actually say what they want?

Thank you so much for your well-thought message, it gives me a different perspective.

It never crossed my mind that he might be a bit disappointed that I don’t earn more so I can match his spending power in all the activities we do together. I am more senior than him but work in a different sector so unfortunately I can’t increase my earnings. I never thought this might be an issue because I have my own savings, house, pension, I won’t be a burden on any man. I am good with money in ways which benefit him too- for example, if we go for a weekend hiking I would book an Airbnb and prepare all our meals to save us money, instead of choosing a hotel + eating out like he used to do before he met me. He led me to believe that he was happy with this but I need to ask him if this is really the case.

I don’t think he’ll ever tell me honestly if he is disappointed about me earning less than him.

I think there may be a misunderstanding regarding holidays. He doesn’t pay in full for our holidays. For example, we’re going away next month. The hotels he chose are around £200 more in total than the ones I chose (which were v decent). If he doesn’t want the hotels I chose, we will book his and he will pay the additional £200. Same with the car rental, he chose a fancy car which is more expensive than a regular car, so he will pay the difference. I couldn’t care less which car we drive in. I also bring the holiday costs down for both of us by being organised and booking flights in advance before the prices go up (he’s more of a last minute guy).

But in general my posts are not about who spends more but about whether the lack of small gestures are indicative of stinginess and selfishness or are just because his brain is wired so differently to mine (and the people in my social circle)? If the latter, how can I understand how he thinks, when he is not able to explain it?