Is my bf stingy, clueless or do I have unreasonable expectation?

[Gabitule]

I’m driving myself crazy trying to make sense of my bf’s behaviour. I am trying to figure out if he is stingy or just a bit ‘unusual’ (or perhaps I’m expecting too much).

For context: We’ve been together 2.5 years. We don’t live together. Neither of us has children (it’s too late for us now). He is reliable, honest, non-confrontational, gentle and non-critical. He earns a good salary, which is double what I earn. We both have disposable income but I have to be careful wirh my spending all the time.

My boyfriend organises events for us and pays for them, but these are mostly for things he wants to do. So overall he spends more than me on our relationship. I never ask to be taken out at his expense, and I never suggest expensive hobbies. I organise things which are cheaper or free and which reflect what I can afford. For example I’d cook a nice meal to reciprocate for him taking me out to an event.

Some behaviour I find unusual:

For our first Christmas together (just the 2 of us), I hosted and paid for all food and drinks from X Eve to Boxing Day eve. I cooked/organised everything. When he asked what to bring, I said two bottles of Bucks Fizz as I forgot to buy them, and that is literally all he brought. No extra treats, no festive gestures other than a jar of cranberry sauce which he wanted and knew I wouldn’t have already bought.

For our second Christmas together (Xmas eve to Boxing day eve) which I also offered to host because he can’t really cook, I asked him to contribute financially. Given that I had paid the bill in full the year before, I hoped he would offer to cover the entire bill this time. Before I even placed the supermarket food order, he randomly transferred £60 into my account towards the food bill. I do appreciate that £60 not a small sum and one can reasonably assume that it covers more than the cost of food and drinks for one person over the festive period, so maybe he genuinely thought he was being generous. But I found it odd that he transferred the money without asking me how much the food costs.

When I calmly asked how he came to £60 or why he didn't ask what the bill actually was he became defensive, deflected, and I didn’t get a straight answer.

Another example:

If I organise a party with friends or a nice dinner, he’ll ask if I need or want him to bring anything. I tend to say no, because I don’t ‘’need’’ anything. So he doesn’t bring anything. But it would be nice if he brought something, in the same way me and my friends bring each-other wine, flowers or chocolate if we visit each-other for dinner (despite also telling each-other that we don’t need anything). At the same time, if I gave him a list of things to bring, he would 100% do it.

On more than one occasion, he brought wine or beers to a dinner/ party at my house but kept it hidden in his bag the entire time, never offered it, and took it back home with him the next day. The first time I randomly discovered the bottle in his bag I told him I found it weird but he has since done it again. Of course I asked why he bothered to bring the bottle if he didn’t plan to give it to me or didn’t even tell me he had it in case it was needed, but I could never get a clear answer out of him, regardless of how I approached the issue.

When we meet his friends he organises nice meals out and fancy cocktail bars.

What is actually happening here? Why bring a bottle of wine, keep it hidden and then take it back home? Why repeat the behaviour after being told him that I found it so weird?

Could his actions come from a calculated, transactional kind of stinginess that perhaps he is not even aware of? Or is he just wired differently and doesn’t have the necessary emotional intelligence to know how he should act?

Equally, is it possible that the issue is a non-issue? Am I being hypocritical in calling out what I perceive as his stinginess when, although I would bring a bottle of wine and chocolates to his special dinner, he spends more than me overall on our holidays and activities (because he has more expensive taste)?

I can’t figure him out at all, and I am normally so good at figuring people out. The issue is not about the amount of money but the gesture and what it symbolises and I am desperate to know if he is calculated or just a bit clueless. I cannot stand stingy people, it’s a massive turn off for me.

I am so confused.

Could you just cut back on spends/effort for hosting him if you think you're doing too much?

It sounds like this is where the resentment is creeping in, especially with cost of living going up.

Let him pay what he wants if he's treating you and don't try to exactly match it.

It sounds a bit like you're pressurising yourself to match his financial spending on dates by giving him perfect home dates.

People are happy being hosted as long as they get some hot food and booze.

They're not expecting the gourmet experience or the host slaving away for days on perfect homemade dishes.

for Xmas do a basic nice roast dinner and tell him to bring alcohol and a pudding and sides and be specific about what exactly he needs to buy from where.

I can sort of see that he is taking you at face value when he brings nothing when you say that you don’t need anything . I think it is stingy behaviour to not bring anything , especially when there is a large disparity in your incomes .

I think it is lovely when people are generous and are wanting to treat the person they are in a relationship with and to show their appreciation . That doesn’t need to be financial i.e you have said you will often cook him meals .

I think it is a character flaw to be penny pinching and does portray a selfish side to him . He is willing to spend on himself and his interests , although in his favour he will pay for you . Would he be willing to do something that you wanted to do that wasn’t just having a meal cooked by you ? Would his expectation be that you paid for him , if your choice ?

I do think it is weird to bring a bottle of wine etc and not leave it with you .
I do think you could try and be more explicit and tell him exactly what would be fair for him to bring . I assume that he must know the disparity in your incomes and if so , he should acutely be aware of you not subsiding him .
Is he generous in buying presents for you e.g birthday etc ?

I think for you it is a red flag to note , as he appears very transactional and would a long term future consist of accounting for every penny and balancing all payments out ? I would personally find this a bit depressing , but you may accept this if his other qualities outweigh this potential flaw .

Is he really inarticulate tho... that he isn't able to explain. He simply does not want to explain.

Another point is that you said that you can't really afford to keep up with his expensive tastes and that when its an outing for something he wants to do and he doesn't want to go alone but its not something you are fussed about because its expensive, he will pay.

People have been doing equations about whether he's paying his way or not, but I don't think you can include those things, because its not something you really want to do, its to keep him company.

Also. if its ultimately costing you too much to keep up with him as you say, and it sounds like it was at Christmas. Then there is still a disparity. All the planning, preparation and work you did. He just turned up, tapped £60 in his phone and let you get on with it.

You like giving and receiving presents.. He wants to celebrate with experiences, so you can only have a Christmas gift which you had to negotiate. I hope you on your birthday its an experience you want to do and not one of his! What on earth is so hard about spending £30 on a thoughtful birthday gift, if you know your partner would enjoy it and she's even said she didn't get many presents as a child, even if there's some sort of day out too. I think its because of the extra effort that goes into thinking about it and planning. We do both for our DC.. otherwise its just a day out for all the family.

Sorry to be negative OP. But the wine issue, I just can't believe that anyone could be unaware. If they were that unaware, they wouldn't bring wine in the first place. He arrives with the wine. So that the host says thankyou... but then quietly takes it home again. That is just flashing the wine for social credit and keeping it for himself. There's something very dishonest about that.

I’m sorry but a bf/gf relationship shouldn’t just be tit for tat. A bf or gf normally takes pleasure in treating their other half and surprising them with a thoughtful gift once in a while. It’s not about money per se but kindness and generosity. And if they have to consult over every receipt then where is the element of surprise or romance?

And call me sexist but I think a good man should want to look after their partner to a degree even if she is more than capable of doing that, and does that normall, herself . . It doesn’t apply in this situation but that is usually an indicator of whether he will be a good provider when dc arrive on the scene and she is earning less.

A grown man shouldn’t have to have it spelt out to him that his gf, who earns exactly half his wage, and who is cooking Christmas dinner for him, might appreciate some fancy treats, a selection of chocolates or a bunch of flowers?

But my question remains: why don't you just talk to him about all these things? I think that is what I am struggling to get my head around.

If you have had 2 Christmases together already why can't you just have open, honest chats about money, expenses, budgeting and expectations.

Asking him to read your mind feels like making hard work for yourself.

and here is another stingy cocklodger his joined in the conversation 😂😂😂🤣

I think part of the reason that the OP doesn’t just keep talking to him straightforwardly (and it sounds like the has done a lot) is that it is important to her to be with someone intuitively generous. She’s said she didn’t get gifts as a child and doesn’t seem to like that memory. Perhaps it is one of her main ‘love languages’ to be intuitively treated. In which case he’s not a great match for your needs perhaps, OP.

Is he a fairly sensitive guy OP? More privileged background than you? Give us some personality pointers.

Its a mistake to be with someone whose reasoning and communication styles are so foreign to you that you have to guess at their motivations and goals. At best its a frustrating waste if time and at worst you are setting yourself up for being gaslit all the time.

Its rude to show up without flowers/wine/chocolate when your gf hosts. It just is. Its rude to minimize your contribution to exactly one thing specifically asked for. Its rude to bring wine and not share it ir leave it as a gift. This isn’t some secret mystery of the tribe. Its in every book and movie. Its common knowledge. You can bet he doesn’t neglect important friends with some bollocks of an excuse.

all the money talk is just ick inducing. Surprised if both of you will make another christmas as I can’t see you even fancy him

No, he is not expected to bring anything when he comes over (every week or every other week for 2.5 years), but only at ‘special events’ like Xmas, special dinners, parties.

Yes, I always contribute when we go out, if he gets tickets to an exhibition I’ll buy the drinks.

yes, he knows how I feel. He knows how much I earn, spend, etc.

My questions wasnt really about what’s fair in terms of how much each of us should spend but if his behaviour in those examples I gave is indicative of calculated, stingy behaviour when it comes to things that don’t directly benefit him (in the same way as going to an event he wants to attend would).

Of course there’s more to it, I just chose the main examples

I know you are right about the communication. I’ve never had this issue before in a relationship. I just dont understand how his brain is wired. I don’t know why he is not able to explain, or perhaps I am refusing to understand because the lack of an answer is indeed an answer, one I don’t want to hear

The irony of you complaining that he doesn't tell you how he thinks when you're also complaining that he can't read your mind and so realise that when you say "no" you actually mean "yes".

If you’re expending this much energy trying to work how your boyfriend’s mind works (your words), then he’s not the man for you.

It's astonishing that you think he should communicate better when you're the one telling him to bring X, then getting annoyed he only brought X and not Y and Z. The only person behaving weirdly over the Xmas incidents is you. If you wanted more than Bucks Fizz then you should have told him that when he literally asked you. And I think £60 is a very reasonable, generous amount to transfer you - if you wanted a specific amount you should have said so, and if you needed more than £60 you should have said so (this is you not communicating well).

As for the wine... tbh when DH and I were dating but not living together, neither of us would have expected the other to bring a host/ess gift if they were coming to a party at the other's place. I assume he was in two minds about that and picked up some cheap supermarket wine just in case, then saw it wasn't necessary.

Or in case the party went on into the small hours - you can never tell when a party will do this, and it's always sensible to hold some booze back just in case the party's going on after the nearest shops shut.

Tbh the wine thing doesn't bear overthinking, but what really jumps out about your posts is that you don't seem to like him much anyway, and the one who's nitpicking about £60 here and a bottle of cheap wine there is you.

This is exactly it, but seeing how many people on here don’t understand this (despite my multiple messages trying to explain things) then perhaps he doesn’t understand it either

Are you one of those people who think that generosity doesn't count if the person spending money derives any enjoyment from it at all? I was once told on here that DH was stingy for taking me to a Michelin-starred restaurant for my birthday because he was enjoying the meal at all. (For context we take each other out to fancy restaurants for all birthdays.) That poster seemed to think he should have treated me to a solo tasting menu, by myself in a restaurant for several hours, while he nobly waited outside in the rain.

Also is "stingy" something you assess women for, or only men? I have hardly ever seen women criticised as "stingy".

Also one person's "calculated and stingy" is another person's "frugal and sensible" and quite frankly I prefer the latter (aside from Michelin tasting menus of course).

Oh I hate the “just bring a bottle of Buck’s Fizz” then “why did he just do exactly as I asked ? “
And
”don’t bring anything “ means “brings wine and flowers “ - say what you mean to save me having to have a dictionary in my head

and you saying he lacks emotional intelligence- I could say you are lacking as you don’t see him doing as you ask as a sign of respect

I completely disagree. Who the hell turns up at Christmas, that someone else has worked so hard over empty handed? Everyone knows how expensive Christmas is. He’s leaving his wine is his bag as he’s waiting for others to open theirs ans he’ll get to keep his to himself.

There are posters on mumsnet who will ruin a thread because they can't, or won't, understand other people's point of view and try their hardest to make you out to be the problem.

As I said, you just want him to be more thoughtful without you having to explain it to him.

The wine in the bag is hilarious though. I'd be telling him to get his alcohol out and make a point of drinking it 😂

.

He didn’t, he paid for half, brought 2 bottles of Buck’s Fizz and a gift for the OP.

I think a lot of this is maybe a difference of people, I’m the same as you OP and would never turn up to dinner with a friend empty handed, whereas my BIL is quite like your partner in that if he has been told he doesn’t need to bring anything he wouldn’t think to take anything. It’s not that he is stingy because if I said “ah can you bring XYZ” he would absolutely be happy to pay and bring whatever I asked, it just wouldn’t occur to him to go and get something if I’ve said no nothing needed.

The Christmas thing is different in my opinion though. If I was spending Christmas with someone, with all the food/snacks/drinks/effort that goes into hosting I would absolutely be paying towards that if not paying for all of that. We spend every Christmas with my parents, my mum loves doing the dinner, she enjoys the cooking and she loves hosting Christmas for everyone and so my siblings & I have always paid for everything as acknowledgement that hosting & cooking is the hard work she does, so they don’t have to cover it financially on top of that.

God I hate it when people list basic life activities like this, trying to spread it out into different components to make it seem like an exhaustive complicated exertion.

Basically you planned what you wanted to eat and then made it.

For two people!

So basically what you do anyway every other day of the year?

Christmas can be a faff to host if you're juggling small excited children, elderly parents, different allergies and likes/dislikes, all over excited and crowded in a space to lo small to fit everyone.

But you didnt have to do any of that. You basically just went shopping, bought what you fancied, and ate it. You didn't even have to duplicate portions because its no harder to cook a roast for two than one.

If you wanted help you should have just said "hang on mate, Ive Just cooked you a nice christmas dinner, you can do the washing up!" before he sat down. If you cant say that to the person you're dating and would prefer to do the martyr sulk in the kitchen, thats the issue with the relationship not his attitude to money.

Same with if you wanted him to bring something else SAY "Ill sort christmas day, you bring us something nice I can stick in the oven and dessert for boxing day." But if you do so you cant also expect him to give you money, which it sounds like you want!

Did you really eat four different elaborate meals that all needed a lot of prep? Because, again, if you did thats all on you! You could have just done christmas dinner, which is essentially just a slightly fancier roast, and left overs. Or a different but easy meal (chucked a salmon in the oven, pre-made pie, quick stirfry) on boxing day.

You could have got the nicest ingredients and easily had two decent meals plus more than enough leftovers and another bottle or three of wine for well under £120.

Should he have helped more? Yes, of course, but you need to take some accountability too. I imagine he could write an equally scathing op from the other POV.

Why are people still replying on here to tell OP she is wrong? She only replies to those agreeing with her…she doesn’t actually care what anyone thinks unless it’s that she is right

You said that ‘overall he spends more than me on our relationship’. Perhaps because he organises and pays for events and holidays he feels you can pay for other things like food? He may have more expensive tastes but you are still letting him pay and going with him. If you had an issue with it, you shouldn’t go.

I think you need to be really clear with him.
It’s stingy to bring a bottle of wine to a dinner and not give it to the host. Next time you are hosting Christmas tell him you’re happy to host but it is expensive for you, would he mind splitting the cost? You’ll let him know.

Some people through upbringing where there has been very little money are naturally parsimonious and very awkward about gift giving. However it sounds like he should be old enough to have got over this.

I have a fantastic friend who earns a lot of money, she came to my house for the weekend once and brought a bottle of beer!! I take wine, flowers and often another small gift when I go to her house. Was she writing this off against the train fare?? No idea but I was really quite surprised and it leaves a slightly strange taste. I know she had a long period in her life when she had very little money and I put it down to that.

Autistic people are likely to take you at your word - so next time he asks what to bring maybe you need to say “some wine and beer for everyone.”