There We Are Then - part 2

[mummy917]

Follow on from previous

Honestly I wouldn’t change the time.

The reason is that you said this: ”The only time I’ll ever need him to have them later than 7am realistically is if I do a Thursday night shift.”

That means that any time you do need him to have them past 7am, he’ll kick off and make it difficult. And it will become him “doing you a favour”….if he agrees.

You said that the reason for the later drop off is do he can take two of them to school. Perhaps In September when school is back, he won’t be reneging on the agreement - it’s just in the holidays when there’s no school, he’s in a rush to get rid of them.

If you were feeling kind, you could just accept them back at whatever time they arrive, without insisting he waits until 10am.

If you aren’t feeling charitable, I’d make him wait until 10am every time.

I think because you’re currently trying to establish boundaries and because you might sometimes need that later drop off, I’d be inclined to stick to 10am. Nice and clear, no exceptions, everyone knows where they stand. The moment you need to start saying “well it will need to be later than 7am this week,” the more trouble you court for yourself.

It’s not about punishing him, if you didn’t need the flexibility of a later drop off for some weeks I’d say let it go. But you can’t rely on him to be fair or reasonable so it’s better you take the necessary steps to make sure the arrangements work for you.

I think he is a very unpleasant man, no excuses for him, or his behaviour

But I also agree with PP, who advise that you are flexible with his friday drop off, unless you're physically at work. Not for his sake, but yours. This removes his ability to toy with you and cause anxiety in the preceding days. you're also removing the possibility that he may be irritable with the kids on the Friday morning before he is able to eject them at 10am. I know you want your kids to enjoy their time with him, even if he does not prioritise this.

Personally I don't think earoy morning handovers are really fair on anyone, including the kids. They may be up at 5 now, but that will likely eventually change. Also, just because they are up doesn't meant they want to be up and out at stupid o clock. Fair enough where there's no alternative for work, but otherwise 9 or later seems more normal to me.

You’re so positive and gracious OP.

The point of the mediation and you initiating it is it shows YOU are super reasonable and have the kids best interests at heart.

If he refuses to attend or attends, agrees to things then does something else, it proves quite clearly, he is unreasonable and has his own best interests as a higher priority than his kids.

And that is valuable evidence that he is a twat.

@WiddlinDiddlin - I couldn’t agree more. Presumably your solicitor @mummy917 will guide you as to when to arrange mediation?

I know it sounds pathetic but the thought has crossed my mind that he brings them home at 7am on a Friday as 1) a way to get back at me for taking them to him so early on a Wednesday morning when I have work and 2) so I don’t get to sleep much later than if I had the kids anyway.

Not pathetic at all, and I suspect you're right about him trying to get back at you. Also the earlier he brings the children back, the sooner he can zoom off to his bit on the side.

There is probably an element of that.

But you mentioned the possibility of taking Thursday night shifts previously, and a 7am drop off wouldn't work for you in that case. A factor in why the 10am drop off was agreed previously. He also had things he claimed he wanted to do with them (school drop off, etc) and making it a true 50/50 of doing the heavy lifting of having his own children.

He wanted this too. He agreed to this. Yet he's tried to change it twice the first month of having them on those days ... in spite of being told no, it doesn't work for you and that wasn't the agreement.

Just keep keeping track of his behaviour and failure to stick to agreed times of drop offs etc and his willingness to upset the children with his behaviour. Because pounding on a door when you said 'no' for whatever reason hours before an agreed drop off that early in the morning IS upsetting and unreasonable.

He is breaking your boundaries to show you he can.

If you concede on this, then there will be something else.

I know it's hard, but if a man makes an agreement and immediately breaks it, then it says that he is not taking you seriously. Even though it may be more convenient for you, it's important to hold the line because then he will do something else.

I do feel for you and your children, but you are not the bad guy here, he is.

It does seem, from everything else you have told us, that he WOULD be that petty.

There we are then.

I agree with other posters who are encouraging you to stick the the boundaries that HE AGREED WITH YOU.

He pushes you to break these because …
He can
He has no respect for you
He is -and always was - the ‘controlling’ one
He cares more anoint point scoring against you than he does about what’s best for his children
He is selfish
He is a knob

etc

If you allow him to break this boundary now, so early into the ‘agreement’, more boundary pushing will undoubtedly follow.

I do hope you are feeling better and are enjoying a happy Sunday with your children x

I agree with not trying to change the drop off time due to the possibility of your needing it sometimes. Keep a note of the pounding on the door at 7.40, along with evidence (emails etc?) that you were due in at work - then if you need to raise the early drop off and how destabilising it would have been for the children he can't turn around and say you were making up the being at work. It then makes him look terrible that he a) risked the children being upset that you weren't in when you had said you wouldn't be and b) tried to justify his thoughtlessness by accusing you of lying when you weren't

I would say,
Remember YOU left me, you abandoned me the family unit. You threw a grenade into the children's lives, & now you are playing silly buggars repeatedly fucking about with drop off, its not a competition, no one is chalking up the score.
YOU chose this, YOU chose the days/times.
You have messed the children around enough.
You have what you wanted, just grow up. Your hair cut, your tattoo, your garage appointment, your colleague are YOUR responsibility on YOUR time. I dont care what you do or with whom. Simply fucking around with your children’s schedule is NOT happening.

I would love to say this to him but don’t want him to think he’s getting under my skin.

I don’t know if it’s with me being poorly on Thursday and into or if it’s because tomorrow is our first holiday without him, but I’ve felt very sad this weekend and as though I’m missing him again. It’s starting to feel like a never ending loop.

I think you should send that message without the swearing and the caps. It is worth pointing out.

Hi op your in a awkward position with him because he wants to control your life go and enjoy your holiday yes you will miss him that’s normal but he chose the situation so no matter how much you miss him he’s not coming back so I would go and have a good time without him bossing you about. It’s all emotional right now and it will definitely get easier in time. I would also stick with the agreement now because he will keep moving the goalposts sadly he’s not putting his kids needs first he just wants to one over on you. A decent dad would do what’s right for the kids he’s doing it to save money. You can’t negotiate with this type of twat I’m afraid.

If you do ask him if he wants to change Friday drop off, you absolutely must phrase it as- ‘you chose the contact times, and you chose the Friday 10am drop off partly because you said you want to do the school run with the kids, but since we started the schedule you’ve booked something in for yourself early on just about every Friday morning, tattoos, haircuts, car services. Do you not want to do the school run with them on Fridays anymore?

make him say no I don’t want that bit of parenting? Make him see he’s as transparent as glass to you.

@mummy917 this first holiday without him is bound to be emotional, I’m glad you have your parents there to support you. I really hope he doesn’t contact you and try and ruin it for you.

How are the children coping with the going between houses? Do they seem happy to go always?

Yes, too much swearing ! Sorry.
Enjoy your holiday, love your kids, & thanks for your supportive parents.
Forget TWAT.
I would not be answering the phone, or read his messages. It can all wait.
Kids can call him if they request it. Otherwise. Dont let him into your head !

Imo, not nearly enough swearing! 😂

But op is far nicer than I would ever be. I would have closed the discussion right at the beginning when he said 'I don't have.....insert mattress/potty/inclination etc.... " and just said "Well, contact me when you do".

I don’t intend on speaking with him unless the kids ask to ring him. I’m hoping the holiday overall will help shift my mindset.

The twins and the eldest are coping okay with going between houses but my 4 year old daughter is struggling with all the change. She does enjoy spending time with her dad and looks forward to going, but she gets very upset when it is time to go there initially.

Is Twattoo aware she is struggling? I’m sure in time she’ll get used to it and it will become more normal for her. It’s such an adjustment for her and must be so upsetting for you seeing her so upset.

The holiday will be a lovely break and a change of scene will do you the world of good I’m sure. I’m sure the kids are really excited too.

It’s another first….

Hopefully you are feeling better?

Certainly, we’re not at our best when poorly.

I can see your point about not wanting him to think he’s got under your skin, and it’s a tough balance to strike. However, I do feel a calm, considered, factual message about him agreeing to the times, and the subsequent impact of him messing about with drop offs, would be helpful for the kids to feel secure. He’s fucking about with the time because he’s a selfish arse and has no respect for you or your boundaries, nor thinking about what is best for the kids.

Presumably he also is now as he knows he can too, when the kids are at school, your at work etc., it’ll be different?

Have your holiday and let your subconscious reflect on it, and you can decide later.

Have a lovely time!!

I think this is fantastic as it gives him an out but also reiterates that he is the one continuously letting you down and its there in black and white so it shows its noticed to be a pattern.

I think either way he comes out looking not great and I dont think he would muck you about any more without him looking unreasonable.