I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

Emotional manipulation is his last but one card to play the last one being threats to end his life if you don't stay with him. He expects you to feel sorry for him. You need to keep repeating the relationship is over and tell him to stop acting like a 6 year old. Once he has left it will be so peaceful in your home.

I would say that its kinder to just get it done than drag it out honestly, so if you are wavering when you talk, I would remind yourself that keeping on having these conversations where he turns into a wreck is far worse to do over and over than just 1 where things end. Because this constant push and pull and dragging it out isnt helping either of you. I can imagine weeks of this has been utterly draining.

As hard as it feels, I think its far nicer to just have 1 final conversation, let him know you are done and make it clear this is final and then step back and give him time to process but really make it clear this isnt negotiable, this isnt something he can persuade or talk around. Maybe once he is clear this is done rather than just another maybe conversation, maybe he can start to get his head around things too. Because right now it sounds like you are both stuck.

The very fact that you can't discuss it at all is an important reason for ending the relationship.

My first marriage was like this.

When I finally blurted out the word "divorce" his reaction was so dramatic that I slept in the car (on an icy night in January!).

That was many years ago. He grew up a lot after our divorce, because he had to, so you could say I did him a favour. He'd still be leaning on me for everything if we'd stayed together.

I remarried eventually and you won't believe this, but there are men out there who can talk about stuff without losing their shit. Who listen and understand, and say things like "Oh. I've been wanker, sorry. Won't happen again" and mean it. Who do everything they can to make you happy.

I was on my own for quite a few years before I met DH#2 and that was great, too. Certainly much nicer than mollycoddling a giant raging toddler!

I’ve booked a therapy session for myself as this is getting ridiculous now I’m aware. I think I need professional help

he keeps also doing this thing where he hugs me when I am wearing just a towel after a shower. I think it’s a subconscious thing where I am clearly feeling vulnerable so it invokes this weird feeling, or maybe I am just looking into it too much trying to find issues

@PlaidJane you're right - you are being held hostage and that's no exaggeration. The talking is over - I doubt know why you are preoccupied with "telling him" anything - you don't have to say anything - if you can leave our get him him to leave - that's what you need to focus on. I don't understand why you are overcomplicating this so much.

Boundary violation #962...

Gosh OP you seem very naive! Your husband doesn't see you as a person, he sees you as a service provider, and always has. He has behaved in various ways over the years to keep that service available and he is trying various tricks now to get that service provided still. He may or may not be aware he is doing this - he almost certainly wouldn't be describing it to himself that way. But my impression is he cannot see you any other way., than purely in relation to himself. I can't see that changing.

His reactions are all about getting the service he wants, or 'managing' you. He is spending as little time wondering what is in your head, as you have been spending waaaay too much.

Just get out of there (unless you can get him to leave, which seems unlikely unless you have to get him removed by the police). Surely your kids can contribute to a joint rental somewhere?

You are in danger op. Get out and get your kids out now.

This is COMPLETELY not on. This is an absolute boundary violation and takes passive agressive all the way to plain aggression. If you have an adult friend who he respects or fears, or can afford to hire someone, bring them in and sit him down and inform him of the next steps with their support.

He does not have to consent to your ending this relationship. And I think you can see that he won’t. So stop trying to explain it. Just do it. But do it safely with witnesses and support.

This man is radically unsafe. Women get hurt physically or worse by men like this. He is escalating.

Yes I echo @pikkumyy77 s post above..Im worried for you OP

eeew.

”STOP! BACK OFF” and put your hand out with the stop ✋ sign. Firmly and Loud.

Get used to doing that aggressively.

also “im not making you suffer. I’ve told you it’s over and you’re acting like a toddler. YOU are making you suffer”.

how on earth you managed to stop yourself from replying in a fake treenager voice with. You’re runining my lifeeeeee” I don’t know.

Him hugging you when you come out of the shower is creepy af and bordering on assault. It’s a physical threat so no wonder you feel weird. Get used to saying “BACK THE FUCK OFF!”.

He doesn’t have permission to touch you and you need to be firm on that.

Honestly I hope to goodness you put a dressing table in front of your bedroom door at night whilst you sleep because he is one creepy bastard.

And honestly pp I’m genuinely concerned that you are still in that house.

This is the sort of man who will attack you. He already is, hugging you when you are vulnerable.

You could actually report that to the police. That he touches you without consent. Might be enough to have him removed and told to stay away from you.

I think she said they are not old enough for that.

I do worry for your safety OP and the time for long drawn out conversations is over, what more is there to say?

I don't want to be with you anymore, this isn't healthy and I'm not going to change my mind so how can we sort living arrangements to not cause unnecessary stress for us all?

I went to the therapy session and she advised me to book a session to bring him in as a one off, and they can help him listen to a 3rd party perspective.

So she wasn’t saying it to do couples therapy, and I should invite him without giving him false hope, more that they can help ‘uncouple’ people as well. She said I was clearly having issues communicating with him, but I sounded self aware and would this be something I want to try. I’ve tried other things nothing much is helping so far. I did ask whether this was a good idea if I felt like there was emotional abuse and she said that she wasn’t advising us to do couples therapy, more just have another person present who he might listen to and that they were professionals

I asked him if he would join as they have advised for us to have a 3rd party present during communication and he said he would come so we booked it.

We also had yet another long talk but this time I was braver and said felt he was putting too much pressure on me and I felt like an emotional hostage. He wasn’t happy to hear this but he did not kick off this time. He asked what I wanted and I said for him to stop touching me to ask for hugs. He said he would stop

@Sodthesystem

Actually the Op said

' They are technically old enough to leave and live independently, however this would be somewhat of a brutal push and I’ve gone to all the efforts of building us a nice home.'

then later she said

' If I leave I can try to find somewhere for all of us or they could start out on their own due to their age. I just feel pretty terrible about saying hey sorry, we need to find a new home. They have been with us rent free until they find their feet so I can’t afford a 2nd new home plus continue paying the current one, we can’t buy each other out. I assume they wouldn’t want to stay with him if I was the one who left.'

so it would appear that the 3 ? of them could afford to rent somewhere together until the house is sold, and the Op receives her 50%.

I can afford to move out but only if I’ve sold this house. They could contribute yes

The only issue is, the session might give him false hope. You need to be very clear with the therapist you wished to break up with him and need their help with that.

Fingers crossed.

Couples therapy with a manipulative abuser is a bad bad idea. He will pretend to be someone he is not or will just play the victim for sympathy. OP the time for therapy is not now. Now is the time for practical action with support from trusted friends and family and Women's Aid etc to extricate yourself and your kids safely. Stop trying to reason with a mental case. He is incape of being reasonable. You may need to play him along to gently end things to protect yourself but he is not ever going to get it. Therapy to end things well is for two reasonable people and the fact this therapist doesn't understand this suggests she is naive or stupid.

OP please put some boundaries in. He shouldn't grab you but he has no filter Don't walk around with just a towel on leaving yourself vulnerable to anything from him. He isn't going to behave. I hope you told him not to touch you again

How's it going OP? I'm rooting for you 💐

Great suggestion by the therapist! Its not couples therapy its a session where OP is the client/patient and not the relationship or the couple. The therapist is acting like a witness/safe outsider so OP can express her intention to end the relationship.

This doesn’t mean OP (or the therapist) should not be aware of the possibility that he could become violent. In the US where guns and violence are endemic I would hardly ever recommend this with someone like OP’s partner. He is way too close to the edge with his behavior.

Yes it’s not therapy. It’s a safe space. She did not recommend couples therapy. She actually said they could explain to him he needs to go focus on his own therapy. I explained he was intensively trying to win me back and it was making everything very confusing and causing more conflict.

We have booked the session for this week.

I do feel now that I’m closer to a breakthrough. He is exasperated by the whole thing (as am I and everyone else here) but I think this has been because he’s been 100% focused on winning me back at any cost rather than looking at the whole picture. It’s sinking in that we just cannot communicate and no matter how many different tactics he tries it’s not working.

long brain dump

I don’t feel unsafe I think he is completely clueless how things can be interpreted by a female because he does not have a woman’s lived experience and he’s quite naive. The more I have talked to him the less I think he really knows about other humans sometimes. He’s so deep in his own head and thoughts and feelings it’s a struggle to see other people’s. He seems to lack some empathy skills which is why he gets irritable with me.

He can’t take any criticism and he is now aware how this can come across to other people and that’s why he’s in his therapy. He doesn’t like it, but he says he can see it

My experience and interpretation of criticism is very different. I am open to it and don’t run away from it. I think delivered well it’s not something to be afraid of

Because he looks at everything through his lens of his ex wife experience, he has been instinctively/subconsciously labelling me as her; forgetting I am my own person. He reacts to situations or bottles everything up as if he’s still in his marriage to her and not in our marriage which is why I feel so lost and unseen. So if something needs to be said he’s already made his mind up it cannot be said because in the past the consequences (with her) have been unpleasant and traumatising. Then he bottled it up until it exploded out and I would be hurt by the explosion as I had been trying so hard to connect with him and try to make things better

It’s been gaslighting me to my core to be made to feel that I am someone I’m not - I’ve checked in with people who do know me, and they reassure me I’m not this person who can’t take criticism who is closed minded or constantly niggling at him

he’s also aware that I have learnt to adapt to his trauma by putting a filter over everything I say and do, to avoid conflict. He wants me to be open, but when I’m open he can’t handle it.

Well, I'm glad and you do seem to be making progress. The covert narcissistic signs here are just overwhelming though:

He is exasperated by the whole thing (as am I and everyone else here) but I think this has been because he’s been 100% focused on winning me back at any cost rather than looking at the whole picture.
Becuase he doesn't want to take accountability and he doesn't actually hear anything you say.

He seems to lack some empathy skills which is why he gets irritable with me.
text book narcissim

He can’t take any criticism and he is now aware how this can come across to other people and that’s why he’s in his therapy. He doesn’t like it, but he says he can see it
Mmmm, yes, he can't take criticism but no, I doubt he can see it. But okay, maybe.

Because he looks at everything through his lens of his ex wife experience, he has been instinctively/subconsciously labelling me as her; forgetting I am my own person. He reacts to situations or bottles everything up as if he’s still in his marriage to her and not in our marriage which is why I feel so lost and unseen. So if something needs to be said he’s already made his mind up it cannot be said because in the past the consequences (with her) have been unpleasant and traumatising. Then he bottled it up until it exploded out
Would LOVE to hear her side of this. The crazy/abusive ex wife is a trope for a reason. He's a permanent victirm... nothing is ever his fault. Other people are Mean to him. boo hoo hoo.

It’s been gaslighting me to my core to be made to feel that I am someone I’m not - I’ve checked in with people who do know me, and they reassure me I’m not this person who can’t take criticism who is closed minded or constantly niggling at him.
Yes, because he needs to be the victim. See above.

he’s also aware that I have learnt to adapt to his trauma by putting a filter over everything I say and do, to avoid conflict.
His trauma is not an excuse to make you behave differently. I question if his trauma is even real but even if it is, it's on HIM to fix, not you. And again, this is about him not wanting to take any accountability.

He wants me to be open, but when I’m open he can’t handle it.
No he doesn't. Narcissists want you to be open... as long as you are saying what they want to hear.

I mean it’s natural for us to want to…humanise, people. Especially if we’ve been making excuses for them for forever. Or because he’s been making excuses forever for himself so now we parrot them for him too.

” Oh is ex was a meanie. Oh his childhood was rough” etc…wherever other sob story he has given.

We have to make these excuses because we can’t compute that this person is nothing like us. And that he really is that self absorbed. That…empty.

I mean, he could have some mental impairment sure. Or some version of autism that includes high narcissism and lack of personal awareness perhaps?

But chances are he’s just a textbook run of the mill narcissist.

He unserdstands fine it’s not appropriate to touch you when you don’t want to be touched. A four year old would know that!

I know it’s easier on you to believe he’s not a creepy bastard but no one doesn’t know how fucking creepy it is to hug someone who is just out of the shower. He knows fine will it was creepy and you were vulnerable. So don’t kid yourself.

Even if there’s impairments elsewhere that could account for some of his behaviours, he absolutely did that deliberately to make you feel controlled, unsafe and at risk.

You need to get used to not making excuses for him. Because frankly, a lot of it there is no excuse for.