I think I have to leave my husband

[PlaidJane]

I have had a nice little life the past few years with my DH, we get on well he’s a nice guy generally and we have an enjoyable time together. He’s quite insecure in his looks and not overly confident so I do feel I fall into the pattern of being a bit motherly, you know giving him reassurance. He says a lot of the time that I’m out of his league. This isn’t wildly attractive I’m sure some people would agree and I can find it annoying as I am not that shallow, I want someone who makes me feel loved and is nice that’s all.

I’d say the issue in our relationship up until now is that I feel like I am putting on a perfect persona all the time as he finds it hard to cope with me in any other raw format version. He gets defensive and upset if I have any Big Feelings - even if they aren’t related to him at all. Therefore I don’t share many big or small feelings with him. Hence the plodding along.

Over time I recognise I feel friendly affection for him with our lives tied together in a house and joint assets etc and I wasn’t going to disrupt anything.

I am a people pleaser and I find it so hard to let people down or put myself first.

I have been working on a short term project with another man for some months now which has ended. During this time we got along great, but I didn’t think anything much of it as I knew the project would end and mostly thought just this guy is a nice guy.

I don’t think we spoke emotionally or overshared our personal lives more than normal colleagues, we worked well as a team and had good fun in the process. As the project came to an end and we said goodbye, we both simultaneously appeared to realise we had formed some kind of feelings for each other.

I assume this is what happens to movie stars on film sets or strictly shows, when you spend a lot of time with someone in close proximity. So I’m not sure it’s real at all. I got worried I was in limerance so was working on detachment

We have had one honest in person conversation about this where we shared exactly identical experiences and thoughts about each other - it’s so weird and uncanny. I feel like we just wanted to check we were not going mad and deluded in our own minds? These moments in our minds were totally identical realisations or memories, matched each other in sync. This has never happened to me before. We both admitted we had grown attracted to each other physically but more than that, we liked each others personalities and couldn’t stop thinking about the other. It’s affecting both our sleep and appetites. We have agreed we need to detach because it’s very dangerous

Running off together is ridiculous, this isn’t some big romantic movie, also this is an awful thing to do to my husband. I’d rather be single right now and have none of this hassle I just want to run away from everything and everyone

I think I’m having a midlife crisis of some kind and I have to leave my DH but I don’t know where to even begin to detangle our complex finances. We don’t have any savings and a huge mortgage and the market is terrible right now for selling. I also feel sick at the thought of telling him I’m not romantically in love with him as it would break his heart.

Have you asked him whether he considered your anxiety levels when he left you.. twice?

That's good, but - I'm not sure how to put this - the hardest thing to get your head round is that it's pointless trying to persuade him to understand your feelings or accept your point of view. He just can't.

I say this as someone who was forever pushing earnest little notes under the door of the room where my soon-to-be-exDH was lurking furiously! I always thought that if I could just find the right words to explain myself, our path would be smoothed. I'm afraid it always had the opposite effect.

You are falling into the same pattern every time where he sets the agenda. Can you find a way to live apart or not - either he moves out or you do. I think you need to tell him that you need time to find happiness in your own life, in yourself - I think you need to stop his conversations about himself dead in their tracks... when he starts talking and you hear I, me, my, mine, myself, I, me, my, mine, myself.. I'm this, I'm that, I'm trying to..., I've got to, I want, I need,... you need to shut that down abruptly - You've got to tell him to go and sort himself out however he wishes to go about it - they are his problems, not yours, not your responsibility to sort out, you've had enough of this mummy's boy approach he has to the relationship - you want an adult man who can make his own decisions and navigate his own way through life and through his own problems... he's got to grow up - he can't keep turning to you or blaming you or expecting you to fix him, pick up the pieces or support him through every single issue on life. Tell him you want happiness and security and care... he's a constant source of anxiety to you... you are not his bloody nanny/mother, etc. As I said you need to shut him down and stop him taking about himself. You need to make it clear to him that your ONLY PRIORITY is yourself - that you've had enough of his sh¡t and he needs to sort himself out before your relationship, if it is ever to continue, moves forward.

Imagine how great that freedom from the stress he's causing you will feel. So... what are your options for getting away - or apart - that's what you need to focus on. I accept this is incredibly difficult in practical terms but extreme situations (which is what this is) require extreme actions.

This is so true.

We often fall into the trap of trying to get their consent to the break up (of course that would be great!) snd so we keep trying to explain and reexplain in different ways, with different words. But as I think someone said once “it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his believing something else.”

Your partner is determined not to believe you can and will leave. He also thinks if he finds the right truck, the one weird trick, you will stay. He is quite busy and absorbed in doing this.

I can assure you that in order to avoid knowing that you are ending this he will run away, fight, fall asleep, not check his email, go deaf, etc..etc..etc…you can talk, shout, write what you want but he eill ignore it.

Yes, but it's more than protecting salary. His whole identity is built around a certain construct of himself + OP. In particular, on the tacit agreement that it's her job to take care of him and his feelings (hence me sharing that anecdote earlier about my ex-DH being furious that I wasn't sleeping with him to "comfort him" through our split). The trouble is that these things get so set in stone that OP also has trouble believing that that's not her job.

I found that the worst aspect of me trying to get him to understand was not that he would ignore it, but that it would spark yet another layer of conflict, instead of restoring some kind of harmony as I'd hoped.

The thing is, OP, if he'd been at all capable of understanding and respecting you, you'd never have found yourself in this position in the first place. Your DH wants an emotional support robot and punchbag, not a wife.

I have trouble believing he’s all bad, because sometimes he isn’t. It’s so confusing because when he’s reasonable I get a false hope. He has swung into self pity from defence which I expect is somewhat of a normal reaction when things go wrong in your life and seem unable to be repaired.

He had told me that my positivity strength and optimism is inspiring and he wants to be more like me, I said hold on, that’s not really true is it, it makes you feel insecure. Be honest here. He admitted it can make him feel insecure. So how can I be both so inspirational and so irritating at the same time. When do I stop being too much and then also not enough.

This is the issue I had with the colleague who I felt really saw me, he was just quietly admiring me and it didn’t trigger off a horrible insecure feeling, he felt drawn to it, and I him. Because it was a mutual admiration of each others qualities - good and bad, because we didn’t always get along on every single point, and we navigated conflict and problems and still admired how each other handled it and felt like we had the same goal.

these are the things that throw you off

Of course he's not all bad, OP. Very few people are. My ex-DH was not an ogre. He's one of the most intelligent men I've ever known, with some truly excellent qualities. Unfortunately, emotional maturity was not among them. Which is where I came in, so that I could manage all that on his behalf.

By way of encouragement, I want to let you know that although it took him years to come to terms with our split, we did eventually shake hands on it. He commented by email once that he did more growing up in the three months after our split than he'd done in the three decades before it.

That's the tragedy about splitting up with someone you love: they'd be perfect if only they could fix that fatal flaw (whatever it is). But the fatal flaw may be what drew you both into the relationship so intensely in the first place, and why those dynamics became set in stone over the years. For things to work out, you'd both need to become different people; but neither of you can manage that unless you leave the relationship.

If it helps you to think that whatever you do must benefit him, then consider that splitting up is his only chance of becoming a more fully rounded adult, as my ex-DH eventually did.

What you write about your colleague shows that you are quite simply tired of carrying everything. This is completely natural. And however much your DH protests that he can learn to be different, eerrrrmmmm see my post above. People make all sorts of wild promises when you have a gun to their head!

When I was single I had that feeling - this is the one several times.

Easy to seem perfect when you don't really know each other. New guy has been all out to impress you, you don't see what he's like after 2 years.

There are loads of people you could fall in love with, the sole mate thing is bs you are probably going to sh@g him anyway don't dress it up as any more than that. Worth losing everything for?

I have trouble believing he’s all bad, because sometimes he isn’t.

Because he isn't all bad. I get really really frustrated when people say things like, "he's manopulative. He knows exactly what he's doing. He targetted you. He's doing it o purpose to unsettle you." Becuase I don't believe that's true in many cases.

DH once described exBIL as cunning like a cat rather than truly clever with an actual plan or strategy. His behaviours have, often, led to the outcomes he wants (and, ironically, those outcomes aren't always good - covert narcissists NEED to feel like the victim in order to avoid accountability, so ironically, sometimes, a poor outcome is, on some level, the outcome they want. The problem is that they aren't doing this consciously or purposefully).

As an example, a big argument exBIL and SIL had when he first moved out was about access to her house. He'd come by often to look after DS etc. And he would let himself in whenever he liked. He knew she didn't like it. He knew that everyone else thought it was not okay. But in his head, this was DS' home and so he had a right to be there and also, in his head, SIL had caused the breakdown in their relationship and tossed him out of their home and family and so he felt like he needed to assert some control. Every time he came in without asking in avance, it would cause an argument but he did it over and over again and then he would slope off, accusing her (and ranting to third parties) about how unreasomable she was and hw she caused a fight when he "just" wanted to fetch the bag he left behind or whatever. To normal people, this is just so weird. He must be doing it on purpose. He can't POSSIBLY think that it's okay to just wander in and out of someone else's house whenever you feel like it. But, his narcissistic brain a) doesn't beileve he should have to have boundaries and b) every time they had an argument, he could then feel like the victim.

i know you're thinking that no, he knew, he just didn't care. but we know that's not true because YEARS later, this is still something he brings up. It's actually oen of the reasons he fell out with his oldest friend as this friend couldn't understand why exBIL didn't see this wasn't okay and exBIL felt his friend wasn't being supportive.....

@ukathleticscoach2012 It’s just a reflection of why I was drawn to someone else - the attraction of being able to navigate problems and challenges healthily, low conflict, listening, understanding etc. It’s not reality I’m aware, and in real life he could be just as bad, it just made me realise what was missing from what I have now. As @Beachtastic said, I am tired of carrying everything

Colleague guy just seemed to like me, for me. When we first met no one was trying to impress each other we just had a project to do, I’m married and we didn’t have a flirty charged working relationship at that time or anything. We got the job done and had a fulfilling time doing it. It was at the end of the project when we had the feelings hit us when we had to part.

I mean 99 percent of people aren’t “all bad”. Hitler was a vegetarian who loved dogs, made pretty good drawings imo and clearly was a passionate public speaker. I still don’t think I’d want him in my life though, personally. Just get the incline there was a lot of “pretty bad” in there lol. Just a vibe I dunno 🤣

Sure there are some malignant narcissists out there who are totally evil. But mostly, “bad” is on a spectrum. I try not to surround myself with people who are on that spectrum. Especially when it appears they are targeting me to be the receiver of that bad.

He’s bad enough.

And it’s simply who he is. We don’t need to hang around lions feeling compassion for them. Or hyenas or bears or even rinos. Because ultimately the outcome will be the same. We will get hurt, or eaten.

In this scenario I would tell him we need some space to work on ourselves and the marriage and I would suggest he stays elsewhere for an agreed time. Once he’s gone I’d get my ducks in a row.

after agreeing to give me some space he decided the space was not good for him so he kept me awake all night swinging between begging me to take him back and telling me to leave and go away but either way, it felt like bullying and it was awful. He said I made him feel sick when he’s around me. The whole thing was about him as per usual.

I don’t feel guilty anymore

I hope you are in a bedroom by yourself at night.Tell him to stop this manipulating behaviour and leave you alone. Lock the bedroom door . He needs to leave soon. As others have said close this type of conversation down straight away.

His anger is really worrying, one way or another one of you needs to leave the house

I also find the way this is escalating concerning.

He is a man, twice as strong as you in the arms and a third as strong in the legs. He can easily overpower you when he chooses.

It sounds like he's always seen you as an object that fills his insecurities and as a status symbol: this is why you never felt you could be authentic with him.

A man who loses an object that he sees as his will often annihilate that object out of spite - if I can't have her, no one else will/how dare she leave me.

We see it all the time in the news. It's a horrifically common behaviour of men.

The way this is going, he could very well either threaten or commit self-harm or harm you and/or your children. Note that self-harm in this context IS AN ACT OF AGGRESSION. If he does this, or threatens to harm himself, you must immediately call the authorities: they are trained to handle it, you are not. They can help him, you cannot.

I agree with PPs that you need to be very careful: you're right at the point where some men explode into inconceivable deadly physical violence, namely, when their female partner is about to leave them.

https://zawn.substack.com/p/when-your-abuser-threatens-suicide

I couldn’t make him stop and no we don’t have locks. he’s given me another letter about how much he loves me and wants it to work. Then he packed a bag and said he was leaving then came back for another long 1 hour discussion about the same thing. I feel physically unwell. I’ve called in sick for work

He is asking for me to consider not giving up on us

He has left now and said he won’t come back tonight. I have a hotel booked tomorrow night. So I am out until Sunday night, then I do not have a place to stay but I am going to work on being very firm and assertive in my responses. I feel like I’ve been emotionally tortured but it’s made it clearer now I have to get out

Yes, he's torturing you. It is obvious that he doesn't care for you as a human being, otherwise he would not be doing this.

I'm really quite worried for you. I really hope he will stay gone tonight, but I doubt it. You are likely to wake up and find him sitting on the bed pushing you into another round of torture. Or worse god forbid.

Can you at least put a solid lock on the door of the spare room or a room that you can sleep in today? They're not hard to install. And call Women's Aid to ask for advice, how to manage this situation. And be ready to call the police.

Please protect yourself. Don't worry you'll "tip him over the edge" with your actions to protect yourself: male violence against women is ALWAYS a choice - if he decides to get violent because you've put a lock on the door, he was always intending to get violent with you down the line.

Men are not "provoked" into violence, they CHOOSE to become violent.

I realise this is so difficult for everyone and hard to deal with on your own. It sounds like he is beginning to take you seriously as hasn't left before.

@PlaidJane I hope for your sake that he does stay away for the time he said he would.

Don't be surprised if you are not given the space; either by him returning early or sending you msgs.

He will probably come back tonight. Heads up.

Lock the doors and close the windows. And leave the key in the locks so he can’t get in and take you by surprise.

I actually think this is getting dangerous too.

You must have proper couples counselling. Your communication together is not working. You both need to develop more awareness and understand the dynamic. If he refuses to go to counselling then how can you move forward? I would not stay with him in that case. But I would give all I had to getting him along to therapy together before I gave up.

the other guy is irrelevant.

She doesn’t want to be with him anymore. That’s not “giving up”.

And he is emotionally abusive so the last thing she should do is get couples councilling with him. Are you quite well? Have you not read any of ops updates whatsoever?

HE should get counselling, sure. But even then it wouldn’t mean she owes him another chance. We don’t owe manipulative, abusive men second chances (irregardless of their reasons for the behaviour). Let alone whatever chance he’s on now because it sounds like op has been putting up with this crap for years.

Also, therapists do not like take on clients where there is abuse happening. And rightly so. Because the abuser usually uses the sessions to further break down their partner.

What is with this mad martyr mentality that we should stay with people who are fucking batshit anyway? Do you think it’s ops job to fix a grown man? No. It’s her job to protect her child and her sanity.

He did not come back last night which was good and I haven’t heard from him but halfway through the evening I started feeling so anxious I ended up drinking half a bottle of wine to stop myself feeling so nervous and weird. Then this made me feel like maybe I was making a mistake.

I did manage to catch up on sleep but I was getting texts from one of his relatives telling me to give him a chance to make things work. I tried to explain all of his awful behaviour but I am not sure other people really understand what this has been like

I am off to my hotel later so we will swap over and he will come here. I’ve left the house clean and tidy so be interesting to see if he trashes it.