Be honest with me, wwyd?

[Colacherrydrops89]

Sorry to be vague, I am concerned about being outting.

My H punched a wall on the weekend upstairs in our home. It was hard enough that his hand still hurt the next day.

This is the second time this has happened.
I haven't told anyone IRL about either occasion. I don't have many friends or family to tell anyway.

I took the women's aid quiz last night and he doesn't do any of those things, it's just that it's a bit shit sometimes but not DV.

He's since apologized over text and call and in person. Just said he was just 'frustrated'.

Be honest, do I leave over this?
Or am I being rash in my decision making?
What would you do?

I will be transparent and say I do have PTSD due to childhood trauma and am under MH team so I'm asking because I'm not sure if I am overreacting over a mistake or something.

Otherwise things are very good. He is attentive, emotionally supportive of my MH etc and doesn't cheat etc.

Thanks.

If he doesn’t do it at work, it shouldn’t happen at home.
(Another one who noted it started with punching the wall),

Same as others, mine would hit a door or sofa, i assume just to show me that it could be me next. @Colacherrydrops89 the key thing is your partner changes his behaviour for others, and keeps this side for home. If it was all so acceptable, he'd be the same everywhere. Not sure if you have kids but if not, dont. My kids still feel like they walk on eggshells, and i left when they were a few months old.

So no it’s not a normal reaction - it’s either intentionally intimidating behaviour directed at keeping you in line and afraid, or it is a self-harming behaviour because he cannot process/manage his emotions. Both require him to get help. If he cannot, then I really do think he needs to leave.

Even if you feel that his frustration is arising from your conduct - asking to talk etc, ‘nagging’ - it is not justifiable. If the relationship is toxic and you are in any way ‘provoking’ him [consciously or subconsciously] then he needs to remove himself. My mother was a provoker - used to wind my step dad up until he hit or otherwise punched her and would then wear the bruises as an emblem of victimhood. On some sick level, she revelled in it. She needed help/therapy and he needed to leave before the situation escalated to that level. The fact that he didn’t and the fact that mum never sought therapy meant that the cycle continued and they were both complicit. Does this describe your relationship?

OP you need to really think about whether you are willing to remain with him when he can blow a fuse like this at any stage, because as other PPs say, it the wall this time, the cupboards last time... next time it could be you. The perfect/nice man that exists in between these incidents may be a calculated cover to gaslight you into believing that it is your fault he lost it. And even if by some remote chance you are a vile, provocative and nasty-tongued person (and I am assuming you are not), you still do not deserve to feel at risk. I’d really counsel you to consider separating and both of you having some therapy so that you can work out whether you can forge a future together.

No the emotion is the anger, the actual punching the wall is a violent act. That's behaviour.

Emotions is having a tantrum, shouting or slamming a door and storming out. Physically punching a wall to where there is a visible hole or pain in your fist that lasts is not just normal emotions. I would never date a man who has done that. I am a single mum and went on a few dates with a man and eventually went back to his flat for a drink. Saw a hole in his wall which he justified with a toxic ex, arguments and him doing so to avoid anything further (she left the room when he was punching the wall according to him).

He was charming, polite and soft spoken but it creeped me out so much I ditched him. I am a small young mother with a 6 year old. Couldn't take any chances. It starts off as a few punches, then gets worse if they can't control their anger, and then they can become violent. If I was you OP, I wouldn't take any chances and wouldn't be able to look at him the same. He is not your safe space or a good man.

OP, do you feel loved, secure, calm in your home; is it a place where you can be yourself, have a little rant about a shitty day at work or someone annoying you in a shop. Can you get home from work, kick off your shoes and decide to do very little if the mood takes you; or do you walk through the door wondering which husband you get tonight. Your answers will tell you if your in an abusive relationship or not.
Angry men very often present a façade to the outside world. My late Ex was very good at this, when I left him many of our friends thought I was awful and stopped talking to me.

That update makes it worse. He dealt with you wanting to discuss his anger and how it makes you feel by punching a cupboard and yelling until you got all turned around and decided maybe it was your fault for nagging?

It was not your fault for nagging. He can clearly control himself in work and chooses not to at home. He controls you by being unpredictable and sometimes blowing up and then appologising. This will absolutely escalate. You are not over-reacting, if anything you are underreacting.

My partner put his fist through a door 24 years ago. He's never laid so much as a finger on me or done anything that makes me think he would since that time. I've kicked a car door in temper but I've never hit anyone. We all have it in us to act irrational at times. If its a regular occurrence I'd say bail!

OP my ex was like this. To my knowledge he has never been violent to a living thing, and he certainly wasn’t violent to me in the 5 years we were together. He wasn’t even threatening to me - never waved a finger or raised his hand - and barely raised his voice to me.

But he had a temper, a really nasty temper, and would take it out on objects. He punched a few walls, kicked skirting boards, threw a glass at the wall, kicked the kitchen bin so it broke, slammed doors hard - that sort of thing. And it would be in response to life’s frustrations - job issues, finances, a bad commute home, work pressures - that sort of thing. Always remorseful afterwards.

As I say, he never physically hurt me, but it was impossible to witness his aggression without feeling scared that he might one day turn on me. I started to flinch when I heard his key in the door in case the traffic had been bad, feel anxious when the post arrived in case there was a nasty bill. I didn’t realise how much I was walking on eggshells till I left him (for a totally unrelated reason).

99% of the time he was a lovely cheerful kind man, but his angry streak was always there, and it had a massive effect on me.

Of course it’s violence ffs and it indicates a complete loss of control and disregulation.
OP - I would be making plans to leave.

My partner did similar when we were first together (very challenging childhood I won’t go into - reasons yes, but not excuses). He went for counselling, saw his GP, and has made a huge effort to change. I wouldn’t have stuck around if he hadn’t. People can change, but you need to see evidence of that, and a tangible difference in the person and their behaviour. If he won’t make a true effort to seek help (crying, and saying sorry doesn’t cut it!), then you need to end this as yes, its likely it will escalate.

@Colacherrydrops89

Please completely ignore @Chiseltip and any other poster who is saying that punching a wall in anger is 'normal' or 'reasonable'.

Anyone who allows their anger to escalate to physical violence (regardless of the object they hit) is clearly not a safe person to be around, ever.

Did you know that the most common injury for pubescent boys aged 13-15yrs old is a 'boxers' fracture sustained from punching something, usually a wall? This usually only happens once, as they learn that it's not ok to do this.

We can understand how this can happen in an emotionally immature pubescent boy, but it does NOT continue into adulthood. Continuing to behave as an immature boy, but ONLY in the privacy of your own home, is his CHOICE.

Your partner has shown that he CAN control his emotions. He's NEVER lost his temper at work, with friends, with family etc, because he cares what they think of him, and he KNOWS it's totally unacceptable to behave in that way, regardless of the 'provocation'.

He CHOOSES to vent his feelings violently to YOU, because he WANTS TO!

He wants you to stop 'nagging' i.e holding him accountable.
He wants you 'afraid' to bring up topics or your feelings.
He wants you to keep his 'secret' about his behaviour.
He wants you to tip-toe round HIS feelings.
He wants you to prioritise HIM in all things.
He wants you to 'do as you're told' without argument.
He wants YOU to feel 'responsible' for 'getting him angry'.(Yet accept zero blame himself)
He wants you to feel unsafe at home.
He wants you to feel afraid of his 'reaction' to everything.
He wants you to disregard your own feelings and prioritise his feelings, ALWAYS.
He does it so that you are kept under his control. So that you 'shut up and put up' with whatever he feels like doing/saying.

You need to leave him, because he has already shown you, multiple times, that he will never, ever stop behaving like this with you. All he will do is say some vague apologies, casually blame YOU for causing him to get angry and violent, then pretend that he will 'get help' at some point (which will never, ever come), but you aren't 'allowed' to ask him about this, because it will 'make' him angry.

Nothing you can do or say will change the fact that HE DOESN'T WANT TO CHANGE. He wants to behave like this with you, because it benefits HIM.

It's vital that you leave this relationship.
It's vital that you do NOT keep his violent outbursts a secret.

This.

I can’t believe how low the bar is for some people. If DP punched a wall or threw a cushion, he would never see me again.

OP - leave.

Is he losing control in his anger and hitting the wall etc. whenever he gets angry? (Does he express anger like this even when with powerful people in his life - like his boss?)

If so - he needs anger management. His expression of anger is likely to get worse over time and he will hurt himself and/or others.

Is he only losing control of his anger when with you?
If so, he is not losing control at all. He is manipulating you and controlling you with the threat of violence to come. He calls your objection 'nagging' to make it sound blameworthy. This makes him the victim (and puts even more pressure on you).

The tears and the apologies are part of the manipulation. If he meant them he wouldn't do this to you again (just as he already doesn't do it to selected people).

Do you find yourself 'walking on eggshells' around him waiting for the next explosion? Do you avoid things that might 'trigger' a response from him?
It is a huge strain living with someone like this.
It is life living with an abuser.

Punching walls is often a male expression of self harming.

His behaviour is completely unacceptable. It doesn’t matter if he hasn’t hit you (yet), he is showing very aggressive behaviour and it will escalate.
He has a very dark side that he keeps well hidden from the rest of the world. He is manipulative and gas lights you when you try broach the subject of him getting help.
I think unless he can fully hold himself accountable and seek help in the form of anger management, therapy or something similar, then you really are in a dangerous position by continuing in the relationship as it stands.
Talk to people close to you. Let people know what you’re dealing with so you can get some support in real life.
Being afraid of his next angry outburst is not normal, and it’s not a healthy relationship living like that.
If he cannot take action and seek help, then you need to take action and protect yourself from this angry man.
There will always be a sorry from him, but sorry is an empty word without real change.

My ex used to hit and kick things and throw things too. It never escalated to him hitting me though.

I left anyway.

I remember blaming myself, thinking ‘He can control himself around everyone else so that must mean it’s me making him angry. It must be my fault that I push his buttons so much. I must be the problem.’

I now realise that is flawed thinking.

It is aggression and a safeguarding risk to you. My son started by punching walls, and ceilings, and his bed frame. Then he put his foot through the TV and coffee table. Then he smashed the house up in rage. He had physical fights with other lads causing them serious injury. Then he scared our pets and his sister with his rage. Then he kicked me (while recovering from major surgery) to the point of making me fall over. Then he attacked his father with a fire extinguisher. Then he kicked me again, on a final warning about his conduct. I have bad legs so this hurt a lot. It took me a long time to take the right action against him, as you are emotionally invested and want the best for people you love. I kicked him out and we are estranged. He is always getting into trouble. He will end up in prison I believe, and I recognise that safeguarding myself and his sister is a priority. Please put some distance between you and this man. It must be triggering and it is a warning of how things will escalate.

Then you also need to get some anger management sorted.

But she (and you) are ignoring it. Ignoring the escalation of violence.

Shame on you both.

He is displaying agression in front of you, knowing how it makes you feel. He doesn't do it in front of others, so he can choose not to do it. He chooses to do it in front of you. It frightens you and makes you feel unsafe.

What other people would think if you left is irrelevant. Surely your own feelings are more important than other peoples? They don't live with him. They don't see the violence. They don't have to live with it.

I was young when I married and so was dh. He did this couple of times as he had never been taught to channel his anger or aggression or deal with it

He did some counselling then we did couples counselling. We agreed rules to arguments and learned what behaviours didnt help when we were arguing.

Dh learned to walk away and go for a walk. Or into the garage and punch his punch bag. I learned to leave him alone nd not chase him for a resolution, let him find his calm without me hassling him. So he could come back when he was calm

I think he's using his aggression instrumentally it's not just a lack of ability to manage his emotions. He hit a cupboard when you suggested he get help for his anger issues, you won't ask that again, you will modify what you say/do to avoid that consequence.

I also don't believe no one ever reacts physically to anything. In the summer I was at work and dh was at home he was doing some stuff in the garden, earbuds in, I popped back because I forgot my lunch, he had no reason to know I was in the house, I went up to use the loo and heard a shout looked out of the back window and saw him lob a log down the garden. I went out and he'd dropped the log on his foot, it really hurt and he threw it. He was mortified I was there. (It's a good job I was as I had to take him for an x ray). However your husband's aggression is knowingly in your presence and at least sometimes as a direct reaction to something you've said or done, that's very very different.

This. I have a dent in a wall at work from me throwing a mobile phone at it 10 years ago. I havent had it fixed as it is a brilliant reminder of me not to let stress get the better of me. I had my mobile phone at my ear, my ground line was ringing and i had 2 people stood at my desk asking me questions. I just needed to show some emotion at that time.

However, there is a difference between showing emotion and being a risk physically. The OP has done everything except suggest she thinks her partner will hit her next. Thats not the same as venting emotion. I get emotional but i have never been remotely close to hurting someone because of it.

Hitting a wall. Does the OP think there is even the remotest chance if the wall wasnt there he would hit her. If so even the thought is enough to leave him.

At the end of the day OP, it doesn’t matter if it’s considered “normal” or not. What he’s doing isn’t illegal, and it’s clear from this thread that some people can happily exist surrounded by this level of aggression. Everyone is different. The main issue is how it makes you feel. If you find it upsetting, and your husband won’t address it, then this is a fundamental incompatibility which is never going to go away.

Emotions are feelings: happy, sad, frustration etc.
Punching a wall is an action, it is not a feeling or an emotion.
I hope you are not learning your understanding of emotions v violent reactions from an abusive man.

OP, I used to work in a hand therapy clinic, we saw a lot of men who had punched walls (and women) and would offer to refer them to anger management. Very few took up the offer.