Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

Staying with men like this is never a better option. The only acceptable level of abuse is no abuse. I think autism is a massive red herring in lots of these stories. We aren’t talking about autistic traits we are talking about abusive men. Getting hung up on autism etc is making the act of leaving take too long. It’s not negotiable. Many women on here are literally battered down abuse victims accepting terrible behaviour in the name of autism. Some of these stories about husbands not giving a shit about how their children feel is so awful. Many people need the guidance of womens aid to help them leave.

@Echobelly how are things going your way? Have you found a way to talk to your dh (and dc?)?

Not really. Like forever just don't really talk about it for both of us worrying it'll blow up again. I've tried to prepare DH for the fact that DS will probably freeze up on English Lit exam this week and he seemed to hear me and accept that. But I don't know if it has. I will at least ensure both of them takes his meds on exam day, as it didn't help last time that DH was both exhausted and had forgotten his meds. That didn't make what happened ok, but if that scenario can be avoided this week, it will help.

I think DS just doesn't 'get' Eng Lit essays at all, it feels to me like in Y2 when I could see maths and numbers just didn't mean anything to him (and l was correct in predicting he'd 'get it' later). DH does accept that Lit is a low priority focus overall but I still worry he'll have difficulty accepting if DS can't do it.

I actually think now the writing difficulties are more of an ADHD thing and maybe less about DH's responses as it looks like this difficulty is very common. It requires so much executive function that he doesn't have.

I have thought of talking to DH about sort of where his beliefs come from about things. My response if I'm worried about something is to look it up and find out if my concerns have any basis. Am I sometimes guilty of looking for stuff that paints things in their most encouraging light? Probably. But his just seem to come from his feelings and fears

I have thought of talking to DH about sort of where his beliefs come from about things. My response if I'm worried about something is to look it up and find out if my concerns have any basis. Am I sometimes guilty of looking for stuff that paints things in their most encouraging light? Probably.

From what you said, it sounds like,when shit hilts the fan, you do the same than me. You research, read, try to understand what’s going on and find the best way to approach things.
i wouldn’t call that ‘looking for the most positive spin’ but rather being quite pragmatic and looking for what works and why.

You said you had found stuff about ADHD and the link to the issues your ds is experiencing. Did you find if certain approaches work better than others? I’m wondering if an ND aware tutor could support him using those specific techniques iyswim.

We had a difficult but good session with therapist today where I got to raise my idea that he really should actually lookat resources even if for no other reason that it could help him get less wound up if he can see evidence that some things are issues of ADHD and not deliberate 'behaviours' or choices. He says he wants to set aside some time at the weekend to look at things and admitted I have asked him to look at his stuff and he hasn't.

I've looked at techniques but I'll admit I find it so hard to have the time and energy to apply consistently. I'm not a teacher, I'm not patient and I'm not good at knowing when to hang back and when to intervene.

Why are you doing all the work? Your DH does not appear to have the same investment as you. I don’t think by the sounds of it he sees any issues with his own behaviour. If he did and he saw the damage he would be taking the lead. He is an adult and he is responsible for his behaviour and responsible for learning and researching and actioning change as we all are. It may not be his fault and some may be down to his disability but still he is responsible for it. Same applies for trauma, it’s not the persons fault but they are responsible for their behaviour because of it.

It is his responsibility to not hurt his son. It’s is always our responsibility to not hurt others, intentionally or not.

That isn't strictly fair - he has been immensely invested with DS, and has done a lot more learning support, some of it very effective, to help DS with the subjects he is knowledgeable in. Unfortunately he wasn't always good at walking away when he started to get wound up when DS got stuck or couldn't remember things he'd just been told. I've been more in the 'crossing my fingers and hoping things click with DS' school of thought and done some more occasional help.

Right now he is stepping back at mine and therapist's request to allow things to calm down a bit. As it is, maths and science, the two main areas DH can help in (and I can't at all) are some of DS's better subjects because they are 'closed question'. I am trying to do what I can to get past the block with essay subjects, which is an area I can at least try to help with although it's much harder than closed-question areas.

And then, when people are unable to do that, maybe because they lack self awareness to realise they are hurting their child, or they don’t have the ability to change etc…. (which isn’t an ND issue. Many NT have a similar problem), then the next best step is for the other parent to protect the child.

And no, a divorce doesn’t always solve the issue. A father should see their dc and the pattern will continue then.

Unless they get some insight. Which is exactly what @Echobelly is trying to do.

When a parent NT/ND lacks the self awareness to realise they are hurting their child then it’s up to the safe parent to remove the child. To go to court and to put whatever safe measures in place. I don’t think there is a single person who would ever advocate staying with someone who hurts their child or who lacks the self awareness. The other parent can work on themselves if they want to. But the child would have a safe home at least half the time. Somewhere where minimum 50% of the time their nervous system could step down a little. The safe parent can then instead of managing the other parent and spending their time trying solve their issues they can work on their own nervous system and that of the child. Health improves, reduces the risk of stress induced sickness etc.

Leaving does not fix the problem, yeah the other parent will inevitably get access. But life changes so much when you are not with an adult you have to manage. It is crazy the amount of headspace and time we give them at detriment to ourselves and kids. Just my opinion though.

It takes over your life and that of your kids. It becomes all that’s talked about, it’s consuming.

How much of a child’s nervous system is acceptable to mess up whilst you wait how many years for your partner to gain insight? I am coming at this from the position of a child whose parents destroyed my nervous system and messed up my life. (Until I reached breaking point and discovered what had happened). How much grace do you give a partner over a child? How are we going to feel as parents 10/20 years down the line and our adult children are in therapy trying to heal from their childhood. I don’t know how to make someone have insight but being ND myself I would be ashamed of myself if my kids needed therapy because of me, I would have failed as a parent and a human. It should be enough that this is a possibility to change your behaviour. The lack of empathy is a HUGE red flag, it’s not effecting change.

Just thought I’d add this reminder from the beginning of the thread. We don’t judge here.

Hopefully the threads will continue, they’ve been a godsend to me for many many years

I apologise if I was too much. I do think that some of the behaviour on this thread from partners blurs the lines between acceptable and abusive and the lens of autism is actively causing harm. On a different thread no one would advocate staying with a partner with these behaviours. Or going to therapy with them. I think there is a difference between wanting help to work through challenging but non abusive behaviour and trying to accept what is considered as abusive. Being autistic should never be used to justify many of the behaviour of the partners on here and at times it does feel like it is. No one should advise staying with a partner who causes harm to children whatever the reason. A relationship like this should be done by separation, not codependency, it’s not a together thing.

I’ve never contributed but have lurked for a couple of years, and I just wanted to say it’s clear to me that you’re doing your absolute level best for your family @Echobelly. I hope these threads continue to be a supportive place for you and others.

Thanks @justluvalee - and it's OK @Theydontwantme , you haven't put me off the thread or anything!

Had a good brief chat with DH as tomorrow DS has his English Lit test and I really can't do much to help him - he simply doesn't know what they're supposed to be getting at and he doesn't have the memory to just learn essay plans. So it's likely he won't write anything tomorrow.

DH does accept that's likely. In fact he actually suggested himself a few months ago that at the end of the day Eng Lit should be a low priority GCSE, as it's something that will be hard for DS on multiple levels and his mark in it isn't as critical as some subjects and I agreed.

I think you are going over and above in the role of partner to your H to try and limit his damage. You really can’t make someone change. There is some saying I believe that you can’t make someone change but you can ruin your life trying. Same like your son, there really is only so much that can be done, it will be what it will be and stressing and getting angry won’t change an outcome. It’s just better for everyone that he gets to that point naturally and with as much self esteem as possible. I do believe they will find their way, especially with love and support. At the end of the day unconditional love from parents is priceless and many children don’t get that from traditional family’s. I would want to distance myself from the behaviour or your H. Make it very clear you are on your son’s side and not your H. Your husband sadly has had his chance of an upbringing and yes it sounded harsh but that’s in the past and now it’s yours sons. I do believe it’s our role as parents to shield our kids from our own trauma. You aren’t his mother, he doesn’t get unconditional love from you or anyone else.

These threads have offered me a middle way between two extremes of advice: either to accommodate everything due to autism or to split up. Sometimes we do advise each other to leave though, but let’s make sure to do that gently.

@Theydontwantme I can see you’ve been so hurt by your family and that wasn’t okay. I know from your posts that your experience has been so hard. We have to trust each other a bit on this thread and maybe give each other some room after we share advice.

@Echobelly that sounds really positive. Rooting for your DS! I know we will be in that position in some years’ time.

💐 to all on the thread.

I only mention splitting up over the action of a father voicing he is too ashamed to be in the same room as his son and shouting at his son for freezing etc. I worry about the damage this will do. Trauma just goes down families unless someone does something radical like leaving. If no children are involved then it’s not so important (obviously no one should be shouted at). I can imagine being a child knowing a parent was ashamed of them, it’s an awful feeling to carry. But I understand it’s a tough decision. I was one who left with only £150 and my Wil to my name. He took the house, my clothes and everything but it is what it is.

My daughter was young though at the time so she has grown up at a distance. She now no longer wants to go to her father’s house, she has learned what he is like naturally. He is so drama oriented, always something he is shouting and getting worked up over. He can’t do homework, can’t brush her hair without getting angry.

As someone who've also fled DV with nothing but a bag I do feel your pain @Theydontwantme and I know too well the feeling in your stomach from when someone shouts at you. In the gentlest possible way though, I would say that each situation we are experiencing on this thread is different from the next, and that it's not always black and white in terms of when we should leave. Although it is good to hear all sides of the perspective and what you say may help someone who is sitting on the fence as to whether to leave ot not.

In regards to the general discussion amongst us all, around leaving, my thoughts are:

Should some of us have left earlier? When the kids were small enough to literally pick up and grab. Probably yes, but, some of us didn't or couldn't and now have kids old enough to likely protest, potentially even refuse to come with us. There was a thread last summer where a mother had finally left her emotionally abusive and possibly ND husband, for her 13 yo to then refuse to move with her and instead stay with the father. An acquaintance if mine is currently struggling as her 15 yo going to live with his abusive, ND father.

The stress of leaving is also immense and another acquaintance if mine had a health condition determine significantly once she finally left, meaning careering for her two young ND boys was an extreme challenge and she ended up quite unwell indeed.

It may also have taken years for some of us to realise how difficult these men are, we've been in the trenches raising ND kids with no village or support around us to even be able to raise our heads above the water for long enough to realise the extent of how bad the situation is. And even then, planning to leave can take literally years. I don't have anywhere to go (parents in another country and not in work as child not in school) and the situation is not bad enough for a refuge. What then?

Yes, some of the situations on here are clearly into abusive territory but it's bit always black and white as to what we should or can do.

I'm considering my options but right now I need to settle DD into a new school and work on my self a bit as now in some form of burnout due to the last few weeks being quite hellish in terms of school dealings, LA dealings and DD behaviours being challenging. Throw in ailing parents and DH new ASd diagnosis (on top of ADHD dx last year) into the mix and it's all a bit much.

I understand. I just thought that giving advice that the way through this is to try and fix the other person wasn’t good advice. Especially for others reading this. You can’t fix others to make a bad situation more bearable. It’s definitely a trauma response to take on the responsibility for someone else’s issues. You can stand with them but you can’t do it for them. I do stand by my belief having wasted 12 years on my ADHD ex that leaving and doing so early on when behaviour doesn’t change is the best way. That is advice for those in early stages so they don’t reach the stage where they can’t.

It is statistically known that women generally only leave “abusive” relationships when the fear of staying finally outweighs the fear of leaving. There is a huge amount of space in between where I think many people remain trying to do mental gymnastics to tip the scales. It’s sad really. Relationships are hard for women.

It's definitely a trauma response and those of us doing this has somehow learnt that we need to regulate other's emotions, at our own cost. Which is absolutely not healthy. So totally agree with that. And if someone comes on these threads who is in the early stages, with young kids, then yes leaving earlier rather than later is the best advice for sure. We probably need to also advice that the first thing we need to do is to work on ourselves, to understand why we do this and how we ended up in these situations in the first place.

I for one is guilty, of trying to help DH regulate his emotions and soothe him and in dling so, setting myself up for a marriage where my own needs were suppressed as I was trying to smooth and calm things down. I didn't know this if course, it is becoming clear to me now.

I think we all co-regulate in relationships and we are meant to. But it’s recognising when someone has needs beyond what we can manage and hurts us. I for one had terrible self preservation and it took being abused to make it kick in. We simply don’t have to accept someone hurting us for whatever reason.

When I left my ex husband and went to a therapy support group I couldn’t even answer their questions. They asked me what I do to relax, what was my favourite colour etc. All I had done from childhood was relationship management. It’s not just abusive relationships, it’s relationships where you need to manage people. I had a massive identity wobble, I wanted to go back to the old world because I didn’t know who I was outside of it. It’s a scary place. Putting yourself first felt alien and selfish but it’s something that healthy people have that many of us didn’t learn.