Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 17

[SpecialMangeTout3]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5355546-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-16?page=10&reply=148665446

Also letting them have whatever they want all the time isn’t going to make them happy either. 😢

And yes having a break some times, having some support, makes a huge difference when you’re raising two ND kids.
I think support might be easier to come from people outside the family. Friends, autism organisations, other parents with ND kids. Most people (NT or ND) tend to avoid children who are full on (too hard work, regardless of whether ND is involved or not). And they rarely know how to react too.
Have you tried the ND board on here?

Last night we had an amazing thing that happens once in a blue moon - a meal at my inlaws that was just lovely and full of laughter, and no one lost their shit or had an argument (TBF, that doesn't happen all the time but more often than evenings like last night!) It was so nice!

Also may have had a bit of a breakthrough with DS' block with writing anything English tests - I sat with him as he went through a picture response writing task and gently cued him (he has a test on Monday) and he explained to me how hard he found the task. Then in the last 10 minutes he wrote a really good paragraph where he wasn't so much describing the picture, as something he imagined happening in that setting and he really came through - his writing is pretty good when he does it. So I told him that maybe with those tasks, rather than trying to describe the picture (which, interestingly, he described as 'not abstract enough') he should imagine something that could happen there and write about that, as he might find that easier to get started with.

Sorry to post about it again, but we are back there again.

DS froze in his English Language 'one year to go to GCSE' exams... unhelpfully yesterday DH was both tired and had forgotten to take his ADHD meds, so he totally went to pieces about it. To his credit, he kept it directly away from DS he kept asking me 'how am I supposed to deal with him, how am I supposed to be in the same house as him when I feel this way?' and I knew it was no bloody use suggesting anything.

Anyway, DH is at me on I need to understand I am failing my son, it's disgusting I have failed him by always undermining DH and not letting him things do his way. Now, nothing he can say, ever, will convince me of that, so no worries on that front. I know I have done the right thing refusing to lead with shaming and anger -I have done my research and know from professional experience that no one in the world would ever advise that as the right approach to helping a child with ADHD achieve. I know we both could have done more in terms of consistency that might have helped. I also know he's doing OK in 5 of his subjects and DH refuses to understand what sort of results are 'good enough' and not a disaster.

how am I supposed to be in the same house as him when I feel this way?

Wow….
Does he still see his counsellor? I might be taking it wrong but is he saying he is too ashamed of his ds to be in the same room than him? Or is he frightened he is going to explode? But then why would he explode? Because he feels not good enough as a father or he thinks his ds is just <insert shaming word there, lazy maybe?>

There is a hell to unpack behind that statement, regardless of whether he has taken his meds or not.

Otherwise, I’m wondering if the counsellor you saw together had made any comment on how to approach your ds and his schoolwork? That might be a first good step to talk to him whikst he has calmed down and has taken his meds.
After that, he needs to be much more to speed on how to approach a teen with ADHD. But I have to say, I’m wondering if his reaction isn’t simply a reflection on what he has been told when he was a teen and he simply hasn’t moved from that. So he is projecting the fear and the shame he felt then.

It’s such a shame. Your previous post was so much more hopeful

I’d have lost my shit at that Echo. I’d be telling DH to grow the fuck up and love his son for who he is. Shame and anger haven’t got him very far so why the hell would they work on his son.
Get another session in with the therapist and ask them to explain that shame and humiliation does not grow resilient or happy human beings oh and give him a heads up that the suicide rate amongst people with ADHD is higher than the average so to give his head a wobble that he wants to denigrate your poor DS in any way and to fuck off again over you not doing it right when all he does is whine about things or explode neither of which helps anyone. Sorry bloody fuming on your behalf.
Sometimes you can no longer pussyfoot around this shit just because someone is on the spectrum!

@Pashazade - I actually said to him that he needs to accept the son he has. He found that very offensive...

We do have another session with the therapist but I just feels there's no point. His feelings take precedence over everything. Even though he's done no research into what DS' marks mean (in subjects he can sit, they're fine - not great but not below average) all he does is convince himself that DS can't be arsed and will never work and never leave home and will come to nothing, and it's all my fault because I won't let him shame and slander DS. He complains I don't allow him to do anything and that I don't do anything. When he's left all the support to me for this round of tests and has practically obstructed some of my attempts to help DS by starting to watch a film with him or whatever.

I am very happy to support DS with revising more - but never, not ever, by treating him like he's being deliberately obstructive. I have literally today been inundated today online with an advert for resources for ADHD teens who 'can't start writing essays, freeze and need every single sentence dragged out of them', so clearly it is not just DS and is a well-recognised issue.

@Echobelly I just don’t know what I’d do in this situation, I guess just try and keep them apart, but somehow try and get through to DH that he risks permanently destroying his relationship with his son. Sorry not much useful there. Massive hugs, you’re doing a good job, never forget that.

I would be gone or should I say he’d be gone. No begging, no therapist no more chances. I mean we all get frustrated and exhausted and in my own head I’ve threatened all sorts but never would I be ashamed of my own child. There is no space for a man like that in my house after that, I couldn’t cognitive dissonance my way out of that.

Is he not permanently destroying the relationship with you? I’d be gone, I’d not be able to look at him again.

sorry that was for echo

Sorry @Echobelly that you’re having to deal with all that. Your DH seems very fixed and is catastrophising, does the therapist ever approach this with him? Agree with PP that you’re doing a wonderful job of supporting your DS and trying to stay sane 💐

There is a certain amount of what I call 'angry bullshit' that goes on with him and I don't read too much into. To his credit he kept it from DS last night and when DS did come down, having heard us shout, DH made it clear he didn't want the losing his temper to happen. He calmed down and wants to have a calm (although I still think unnecessary) talk with DS about how he feels about it with me there, in much more reasonable terms. I've told DH to keep it short and to the point - I do trust him to stay calm. He just asked DS if they could have the conversation, and DS has said no and he's accepted that.

As he pointed out last night, this is the only thing we really argue about - it is a big one though. I told him about seeing ads for a thing addressing exactly this issue with ADHD teens and he took my point that this suggests it's not just DS.

It's funny that now the internet knows I have a kid with ADHD in Y10 I'm bombarded with ads for learning resources, seminars, tutors, etc. I'm taking most of it with a pinch of salt unless it's got a clear trail of reviews etc - you can bet some of it is just people making a bunch of ADHD/ASD info sheets or low quality learning resources with AI and selling them to people for £40... and it would be easy money with stressed, desperate parents.

The angry bullshit you mentioned might be ok for you to reflect. But I would worry that your child will not and it will be fully absorbed. He is able to listen to you argue about it, he must be talking all of this in. It is none of my business of course but only arguing over your child is literally the only important thing in your lives, it’s massive and I’d worry you are minimising the damage he is doing. None of what your dh has done/doing can be undone, well with lots of therapy for ds it could. I for one know the huge amount of damage that is done by having a ND parent who “can’t help it”.

I have been reading about something that felt really important. Many autistic people see the intrinsic value in the task of doing something and less value in the relational value. I really felt this and still do. My mum telling me she has been somewhere or done something and me feeling I would love to have done that with you. I don’t think she did it on purpose like I thought, deliberately leaving me out. I think my parents have a better match as they are both task orientated. I on the other hand are much more relational value. I can do things on my own but I enter a relationship to do it with them, I want to share my hobby and my life. I feel like a tool to my mum, something she brings out when she needs someone to go with instead of wanting to share the connection.

I've considered ending the marriage to spare DS this, but I can't see it'll help DS ultimately. All it'll mean is DS spending time with DH without me there - I can't and I wouldn't try to stop contact and I don't believe I'd have a case to do so if I tried. It's another 18 months before DS is old enough declare a preference. And I feel like DH might then blame DS somehow for our marriage ending. And also there's no way we can pay DC's living costs for uni if we split, to be perfectly frank. We might have difficulty doing it one way or another as DH's income is so unstable.

It's been on the tip of my tongue sometimes to say to DH that I have considered leaving - I don't know if it will have occurred to him that this is a possibility - but it's one of those things that once said, can't be taken back and I want to be careful to mention it at a time it wouldn't seem weaponised.

Yeah sorry it’s difficult. I left my ex when my oldest was almost 2. I am much tougher in my outlook on this type of thing now. Absolutely no way I could love someone or even look at someone with your husbands attitude whatever the reason. I’m sure it’s bloody hard to deal with now it’s gone on so long. I would be very concerned going forward how your son feels about “home”. I fled asap and ended up in an abusive marriage for over a decade because going back home meant going back to all the trauma of my childhood and I’d do anything to avoid that. Plus having children of my own and having no real home to go to is really hard. That’s just my story tho. I find that partners like this ruin the safety and ruin the notion of home.

The cumulative damage has only become apparent recently... this stuff isn't constant, but I know that doesn't make it OK.

It’s hard. I don’t know. I think it takes something particular to be a good parent. I don’t think all people have the right tools for this job. Being a successful parent isn’t about grades it’s about the unconditional love and support. He is failing not your son. He will be able to work and get grades but he will never be able to get this connection from anyone in his life. Trust me, I ruined decades trying to find unconditional love.

I’ve followed this thread for a long time but could do with some advice. Married for 17 years - 2 Lovely DD’s.
DD1 is 15 and received her diagnosis 2 years ago and DH is undiagnosed and not interested in discussing it. He’s always been tricky but I am incredibly laid back, patient and self sufficient so it’s never Massively bothered me that he’s how he is. But he and DD1 clash terribly. He is very much take me as I am and won’t even try to change for her or really understand her difficulties.

she finds life very hard and it frequently results in self harm. I feel strongly that home should be a safe space for her but he is just mean to her and tells she needs to get over whatever is bothering her on the basis that tje world is cruel and she needs to get used to it. I’ve begged him to just try to be kind to her but he just can’t - they ask me not to go out and leave them with him because he’s so difficult.

I should have done something years ago but I was too scared, but I feel much stronger now and like I need to do it to protect her?

Sounds like you need to figure out leaving, assuming both children are teenagers they won’t be forced to spend time with him by any court so you can just have a calm and peaceful home without him. Assuming your 15 yr old isn’t about to do exams (will do GCSE’s in 2027) then I’d get out now if it’s an option at all? It sounds like they would prefer a home without him in it.

Some people’s survival behaviour is just pure neglect. We all develop ways to cope with life but when they impact those around us so negatively it’s time to have a good hard look. We aren’t to blame for the autism or the adhd but we do have to learn ways to cope that don’t hurt others.

@DancingQueen2018 i feel that when your child is asking you to not leave them with someine (whoever that someone is) alone, then a bridge has been crossed.
I mean imagine they were saying that about a family member, a friend, anyone, it would be a clear red flag and you would ensure theyre not in contact again, right?

I agree with @Pashazade , it’s the sign you need to look at other possibilities, including separating

@Echobelly ive felt like you for a long time re telling dh I had thought about getting divorced.
In my mind, if I was to say I was thinking of divorce, then the chat would be ‘were getting divorced’ .

Instead I asked dh what he thought would happen if I was stopping to do all the things I was doing. So closer to ‘here is a reality check. Please think about it’
And Tbf to dh he did and change some of his ways.

What I’m Trying to say is that you might not need to tell him you want/are thinking about separating. But a very calm, factual talk that will rattle him enough to start revising some of his ways might be enough. Then the counsellor might be able to take over.

Have you had a chat with ds about how he feels about your dh ways, your ways, what he feels is working best etc…. ?

I think this might be the approach I should go with, finding the right time is the tricky part. I reckon it would really shock him that I would feel that way and it might be the lever it takes. I just want him to understand that how he seems to feel is not normal. He doesn't have to feel like that and it's corrosive for me, DS, DC and for him. If he could just get some help to change his mindset that this is not 'behaviour' and is not 'about him'.

I'm sure his mum spent a lot of his childhood making her feelings about his differences his problem, and that didn't help.

These are grown men not children. Why are they getting so much grace on here? They are literally destroying their children’s lives if some of them haven’t already. I am a little confused as to why people aren’t madder and more worried about tone of voice and tip toeing around them.

From my pov, it’s not that much about letting them get away with murder.

It’s about being aware that life is never black and white. And if it was, I’d be in trouble too - I’m very aware that I’m not perfect either.

It’s about being aware that a separation is never as easy as ‘divorce=end of all problems’. When you have children affected by the behaviour of your DH, there is a question of what will happen when said children spend time in their own with their father.
I remember a woman on here who had an awful time separating from her autistic dh. He was intent on getting custody 50/50 (as is his right btw) but was also completely unaware of danger and his child’s ability, putting the child’s life in danger. I’m sure handling the relationship between your dd and your narcissistic ex can’t be easy either- for you and her.
There is a question to ask around the limit, the tipping point where staying is worse than leaving (for the children) but where that limit is is never as easy to see.

And then you have the whole past experience, feeling responsible, ashamed, guilty that you are in that situation. Again, there is a reason why women find it hard to leave in case of DV. I feel some of those reasons apply to us. They certainly have applied to me. And no amount of ‘why on earth do you put up with it?’ will break those barriers.