Do narcissistic people know they are like this?

[Theydontwantme]

Do they think that they are the same as everyone else? Do they realise that they are always thinking about their needs and how and who to get them from? They appear to meet some people’s needs so they know they should but it’s always because they get something in return. I just don’t understand how they don’t know what they are???? Surely after a while you’ll realise you are selfish.

The difference is - they don’t care.
How they impact others genuinely doesn’t bother them as long as they get what they want.

Imo, they have no insight whatsoever. I had a close relation for whom the whole family was all about her, everyone was criticised if they didn't jump when she demanded, she had to be the centre of everyone's universe, people were played off one another. And she had no idea what she was like.

I think the term "narcissism" is overused. I imagine very few people are actually narcissists. Most unpleasant behaviour is probably just plain old selfishness and thoughtlessness. A danger with over-using the term "narcissism" (and its cousin "toxic") is that it blinds us to the possibility that we, too, could be selfish and thoughtless - because we're not narcissists.

Interesting

They have no idea. They think they are marvellous. And are astounded when others don’t think the same.

OP take a look at Dr Ramani. She has some very interesting talks on narcissism.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1AXcU9rnRi/?mibextid=wwXIfr

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1bGAF116ng/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Also Lewis Howes

How can a person not care about their own family and children?

They think they are more important than you.
Your emotions, wishes and wellbeing are secondary to theirs.
They lack the ability to view their world through another lens

The longer I've dealt with this one particular person who I suspect would meet the diagnostic criteria, the more I realise it's an extremely self delusional disorder. And it's why they often end up in horrific circumstances as they age. Paranoid (often), homeless, freindless, penniless. And they still dont change.

Their brains are just wired differently…
It can be hard to understand it but we have to accept it.

It's impossible to imagine this when you're not a narcissist.
Their brain is just wired differently. Don't bother understanding it. You can't.

If you're actually dealing with a narcissist, then people only have value to them as long as they contribute something to the quality of their life: money, status, services, care, an outlet for their emotions, a punching bag, someone to blame for all their problems, ...

When a narcissist says they love you, what they mean is: I love myself so much that I enjoy your contributions to my life. I love myself so much that I want to keep you around.
They don't care whether this is beneficial to you. That's not of importance. What matters to them is that you keep making their life better somehow, even if it destroys you in the process.

I also think if you're missing empathy it's a bit like any other missing trait...you don't realise you don't have it and presume everyone else is the same so basically they don't realise they're missing something essential.

They 'care' as much as their limited ability allows them

Because they have a psychiatric disorder. They're not choosing to not care about their family any more than a schizophrenic chooses to hallucinate or a cold chooses to turn to pneumonia.

I think the fact that "narcissist" is a label that is far too often tacked on to people who are just dickheads has resulted in this sort of thing - a lot of people forgetting that narcissistic personality disorder is a disorder not a choice .

This completely.
Ex friend of mine is certainly a narcissist.

They genuinely couldn't see that they were not the centre of everyone's universe. When plans or discussions happened where they were not front and centre it became a massive drama about how they have been deliberately missed out or excluded. Even if they were asked or invited but had already made plans. As if everyone had to then do nothing just because they were busy, but on the flip side only invite you somewhere if it suited them.
Wanted everyone to agree 100% when they made a major life decision that impacted many people and then cut people off who dared express a different opinion. Needed approval and acceptance from everyone- if you didnt 100% fan girl over them then you were a bad friend. Even today making themselves out to be the victim about it all, even though they have the life they actively choose

Exactly this…my STBEX has no view of the world beyond what he sees is right. He has told me I can’t be happy without him, yet ignores I wasn’t happy with him, told me I’ve got mental health issues I’m in denial about yet wouldn’t accept that it was once I’d started medication and therapy that I felt able to leave him, says I’ve taken away his future but ignores that if I’d stayed, then I’d have given up mine…Refusing to pay full maintenance for our daughter because he doesn’t want me to have any extra money to go towards my living expenses that I’d incur even if she wasn’t there..none of these he sees as relevant despite me being the love of his life and being willing to do anything to have me back.

It’s not just been our relationship…I’ve seen it for years with others too. We have shared hobby and he’s really committed to it but if others aren’t (like prioritising a family event over one of ours) he looks negatively on them.

I agree with a PP who said they have no insight

I'd put money on my sister being a narcasist. 2 of us siblings are NC with her and her SIL went NC with her when my sister was pregnant as she was treating her in-laws so badly

So despite the fact 3 aunties have opted out of being part of her and her child's life........ she still blames other people and will not acknowledge her bad behaviour, they always manage to flip the script and pretend they have done nothing wrong

I went NC with my sister as she screamed in my DS's face and hurt him....... when I got angry and defended my son ( I wasn't physical ) she burst into tears and claimed she had done nothing wrong 🤦‍♀️ ran straight to the wider family painting me out to be a villian....... despite the whole family witnessing her losing her temper repeatedly over the years and me not losing my temper since I was a teen 🤦‍♀️

Having lived with one and having a narcissistic best friend (so a study of 2), I have read a lot about this and would say it varies a lot.

The friend often used to say that she was a bad person, so she did know, but I also think it was a tactic for me to say "don't be silly, you're lovely and kind".

ExDP used to believe the world owed him a living and that his superiority was widely unrecognised. He never acknowledged any of his behaviour was bad because he thought it was justified because he was a step above everyone else and therefore undervalued and misunderstood. So if he yelled at me, his excuse would be that I had made him do it, which is clearly ridiculous because it would always come out of the blue.i think this is more an unconscious psychological defense rather than a deliberate lie.

Both would blame shift their mistakes or lies onto me. For example, my friend made up a a horrible story about the block of flats I was moving to when leaving exDP. She told me that the place was known for prostitution and drugs. About 2 weeks after I moved in, I realized that it was a total fabrication because I got chatting to a group of neighbours who had all lived there for decades and they had no idea about the drugs or prostitution. I mentioned this to my friend and then she sent me a long long long email about how much I had upset because I didn't realise that she had been trying to protect me. She did not apologise for the gigantic lie.

Both my friend and exDP could be very kind. In my friend's case, I think it was a deliberate tactic to deflect people's attention from any bad behaviour.

They don’t realise and assume everyone else shares their perspective.
They think other people are also ‘playing the happy family game’. They don’t realise they have genuine, mutual loving relationships. They go through the motions of creating the appearance of a happy family, and rage when anyone fails to play their assigned role.

They don’t understand that in other families the people have actual emotional connection to each other. They hurt and feel joy about each other’s lives.

Having been brought up by one, I actually really struggle. I have no confidence in my ability to build relationships. I love my DC but don’t really know if they love me, or if they will spend time with me when they leave home.

We have some ASD in the family which further confuses things.

I have a close family member who ticks all the boxes for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. She's been married three times and each of those failed marriages was entirely the responsibility of the ex husbands. She paints herself as fault free and rewrites history to suit her narrative. She has five children of which two are golden children and in close contact, two are scapegoats, one minimum contact, one no contact. She has made no effort to have a good relationship with either scapegoat. Her fifth child died in his thirties, leaving a wife and young son behind. In his obituary, she made it all about her, how he wouldn't be around to look after her when she became old etc. I could scarcely believe what I was reading. This woman has zero capacity for introspection; has never been known to apologise for any wrong doing as she's never wrong; is a pathological liar and has been known to throw deceased relatives she claimed to care about under the bus if it suits her narrative. Genuine narcissists are best avoided, they are vile.

No, their brains do not allow them to think they do anything wrong, or that anything is their fault. It’s an alien concept.

They go through life believing they are just essentially, always ‘right’

True narcissists, and not just the oft-diagnosed MN ex, or people who like to look at themselves in the mirror, are best avoided completely.

In my adult life, I've encountered two people with clinically diagnosed NPD: one is in prison, the other works as a childminder, despite hefty SS involvement due to the treatment of her own children.

They're both awful people who are exceptionally skilled at manipulation, even though neither is particularly bright.

I have an ex who is a complete narcissist, but the personality trait and the actual disorder are WORLDS apart.

There do seem to be some who realise they are different from most people and think about it at the intellectual level. Now and then you come across diagnosed narcissists who acknowledge it, sometimes because they can't sustain relationships and go to find out why and end up diagnosed. There's a few on YouTube, though I can't recall names now.

This is true. My (diagnosed) exH would occasionally say things like "I'm an empty shell" or "I feel nothing", he knew what he was - and in his less insightful moments was actually proud of his diagnosis. I think he thought it made him interesting.

I've known a few people who seem quite narcissistic, but only one who I am certain actually has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. As pp have said, I think there is a huge difference. The former, I am sure, realise to some extent that they are being self centred but they don't care.

The latter I don't think would ever consider reflecting on his behaviour. Having known him for many years, the best way I could describe how he thought about others (including his own mother, wife, children etc) was as if he was playing a computer game and he was the only 'real' person, the others were just characters in the game. He'd learned that to play the game he needed to work out what buttons to push, what characters liked/disliked, what behaviour made characters do as he wanted etc. So it would often, at least in the short term, appear that he was charismatic, understanding, kind, helpful etc. But really all he cared about was winning the game, which meant all the other characters giving him what he wanted. For him, this could be financial gain, sex, an ego boost, doing work/chores he didn't want to do or other ways of giving him enjoyment including creating drama/letting others know he had 'won' and seeing evidence of his power over others. I firmly believe that he truly thought he was superior to everyone else and any situation where he was challenged was just evidence that the person challenging him was too stupid to understand that he was in the right.

Who cares tbh. They don’t