Do narcissistic people know they are like this?

[Theydontwantme]

Do they think that they are the same as everyone else? Do they realise that they are always thinking about their needs and how and who to get them from? They appear to meet some people’s needs so they know they should but it’s always because they get something in return. I just don’t understand how they don’t know what they are???? Surely after a while you’ll realise you are selfish.

She’s masking being entirely self centred and having no need of real relationships beyond people telling her how good/clever/successful she is.

She knows that if people actually saw through her, they’d know she was a little insignificant valueless person. And at the same time, she believes that no one realises how wonderful she actually is, no one really appreciates her.

That’s a tricky set of things to balance. Am I a hard done by woman whose brilliance isn’t recognised? Am I actually an insignificant person who doesn’t know how to be like everyone else? Lots of masking needed- be gracious to people who should really treat you better, who you need to hide the truth from..

She has many many relationships with people, lots of strangers and lots of extended family but none of them are close and vulnerable and she is always at the centre. It must be hard having to work so hard to feel good. She does have to do many good deeds and does really put herself out for other people. I often feel I fall short. I have no desire to put myself out for absolutely everyone, I am happy with my little family and few friends. I find joy in myself with little. It sounds tiring always being so amazing.

They aren’t amazing, they are brittle and full of repressed shame. They spend most of their time projecting that onto other people to make themselves feel better. It is absolutely deliberate. This is why it’s so draining being around them. Even if you know the game, it’s repugnant to have their company because they put you on edge on purpose.

Narcs are like vampires. The only option is no contact at all.

She is like that with me, little comments all the time. But she isn’t like that with everyone, to many she is amazing and super helpful.

STBXH would comment that he "knew he had issues" and "knew he has different" but my understanding is that part of the delusion narcs have/create is that there is nothing actually wrong with them? And they are meant to believe their own lies.

He would accuse others of being narcissists but he's been the biggest surprise of all. Evil man.

The clue’s in the name, which is why NPD is generally untreated. You wouldn’t go and seek professional help for a condition you don’t believe you have.

The difference is you serve a different purpose. Unfortunately narcs are worse with their own families and display this nasty behaviour. They do this as they know people have family bonds. They cannot do it with strangers who are basically more likely to fuck off if they act badly.

Your upset is vastly more rewarding to them. This is why no contact is the only option and why they fight it so hard. Telling someone no, or having boundaries is a very good test of a narc. They cannot stand them. A well adjusted person will.

I hope you can detach from this awful person. She does know she is awful. She would rather you carry the strain. Don’t.

How can someone be awful but do nice things for other people? Is it just because I can sort of see through her that she doesn’t want anything to do with us. I don’t really fall for the niceness because a nice person in my eyes would stop at nothing to see their kids and grandkids because little kids are so cute, especially your own. I wonder if people know she doesn’t bother or if they’d think so so lovely if they knew. I feel she is obsessed with putting herself out there and neglects is. But I can’t say that as it makes me selfish to want to have some attention from such an important person to the community.

What is driving her to need to feel so important to all these people?

narcissism—where someone may do “nice things” or act in ways that seem positive, but it’s all very much for their own image or to fulfill their own needs, rather than out of genuine care or empathy. Narcissistic individuals often have a distorted sense of self-importance and can be very focused on how they’re perceived by others. They may give the appearance of kindness or generosity, but their actions are usually motivated by a need for validation or admiration, rather than a true desire to make others feel valued or loved.

This is a take I picked up from AI

Actually I kind of understand this. I do things to make people feel loved. I want my kids to feel my love. I couldn’t bare them not feeling it and I just love them so it’s easy and I want to. I don’t need anything from them, from anyone really.

So they don’t help a stranger because they simply love them, they do it so the person says thank you, you are a star. They won’t get this thanks from family as it’s just simply something you do because you love them.

No they don't want anything meaningful and that potentially is messy. My DM chased men, went out of her way for strangers (for a bit until they offended her in some imagined way) and was spiteful and selfish with everyone.

She loved basking in anyone's attention. If she didn't get attention she would sneer or scream.

She showed no interest in me or my DS except bragging about him.

Because the only goal was getting what she wanted and preferably if it made someone else upset or miserable.

I know it's bizarre. But she had nothing behind the shell.

Not only did my DM not bother with her own DGS she had a row with her friend for spending too much time with hers! That's because my DM wasn't interested in talking about her friend's DGC. It's got to be about her

She made lots of knitted things for her neighbour's DGD because she got attention for it.

So despite never bothering do you think that they talk to others in a positive way about us? Do people think that they must be as nice to us as they are to them? Or do you think they talk badly?

Its actually got me a little bit annoyed this past week. My parents haven’t visited our house for god know how long but they have organised a Christmas event and want us all there. They probably want to get some Christmas photos of their family that they can show people and this has annoyed me. We aren’t something to pull out for Xmas. I don’t want to go, I don’t want to give them what they want. They have no shame either as they fully expect us all to come.

I’m in two minds about this. Obviously I don’t know the backstory of your relationship with your mother but are you perhaps expecting too much of her? When you say she “never bothers” with you what does that look like? Do you mean she doesn’t make any contact whatsoever, or she does, but not as much as you like? The reason I’m sceptical is you say she’s invited you for Christmas, which suggests she is making some kind of contact? Obviously, if you feel there’s no relationship to salvage then don’t go. I don’t think people should do anything due to feelings of obligation.

But your previous posts about her not just popping by make me think maybe she just has a different approach to relationships. My parents wouldn’t just pop by because they’d see that as imposing on me (and I wouldn’t want that either tbh!) Maybe she is less emotional but that doesn’t mean she’s a narcissist or a terrible person (and it’s far too binary to say people are either all good or all bad, most are a mix of both). Maybe she didn’t enjoy parenthood herself and doesn’t like small kids. She isn’t obliged to fawn over your children, she didn’t ask to be a grandmother. As for helping out the community maybe she feels the local homeless (or whoever she’s helping) need her help more than you? I do think contributing to things that make society better on a broader level is just as important as focusing efforts on a family bubble where everyone is probably doing fine.

All that said, if you don’t think she’s a nice person or pleasant to be around and you feel the relationship is totally one sided then you don’t have to have anything to do with her, and it sounds like you have stopped making effort you didn’t feel was reciprocated.

Oh I don’t know. She will spend the entire time together talking about herself and who she has seen, who she has helped, what she has done, she constantly name drops. I’m not interested, I just want her with is enjoying us.

She just doesn’t know us it feels, she just talks to us about her life. I feel it’s just a photos occasion and a tick box exercise or probably no one else available as they with their own family. She has no idea what to buy us, she doesn’t know the children at all.

As for her family doing fine. She wouldn’t know. We are actually struggling at times but again she wouldn’t know and if you told her nothing would change so I don’t bother.

No I know my DM never talked in a positive way about me even when I had achieved something. According to her I only got good grades, degree and post grad, a house, passing my driving test, getting a good job because it was easy. Even though she never achieved any of these things.

She also ridiculed really painful things about my relationship to her friends. I know she bragged that my DS went to a private school but she never even asked which one. Everything about her was surface.

I wouldn't indulge them with their photo ops.

I don’t think mine would talk that way because people might not think well of her. I think she talks as if she is an active part of our lives. She wants to be viewed in the best way possible by absolutely everyone but that means she doesn’t have time for us. She doesn’t feel actively nasty or abusive just completely unaware that a real relationship consists of actually being present. She is missing in action being to everyone else what we’d really like her to be to us. She doesn’t recognise when she is needed. I can’t say it’s because she doesn’t care but she just doesn’t think she needs to.

I think they know they are screwed but still, they are entittled. They feel rage like a kid. As long they can get free from responsability they don't care enough. Some have some self awareness, but they try to rationalize it or compartimatise their behavior.

Do you know what kind of upbringing your mum had? And you’ve said it’s your parents and used ‘they’ a lot but the focus seems to be on your mum; what’s your dad like?

From what you describe, she could have narcissistic traits or like so many behaviours, it could be a result of some kind of childhood trauma. It could be that she genuinely wants to help people in the wider community and does so for the right reasons, but doesn’t know how to be an active parent or grandparent. Perhaps she didn’t have that growing up or maybe she’s just not equipped.

Family can be messy and takes up a lot of mental energy, whereas there are clear boundaries between doing work in the community and your personal life - she can do the work then go home and close the door. Is it possible that she just doesn’t have the capacity to maintain close familial relationships?

I don’t think she had a great childhood. Not much is said about her mum and she isn’t around, the dad is very much an intellectual. Enjoys sorting and filing and knowing stuff, (I don’t know about him as a dad) She isn’t what I would call close with him, she visits but rarely and it’s very disconnected, she seems to act but without the genuine feeling of care or worry. Dad just goes along, they seem cut from the same cloth but I think he is more emotional just follows her though.

I just find she acts but doesn’t feel if that makes sense. For example today me and H did a Xmas event with the kids. Christmas is only Christmas through their eyes for me, I thrive off of them and their faces and magic. Doing things alone is ok but it’s the feeling I get with them or friends or family that makes it special. My parents sent a photo of them 2 doing something Christmasy together that is obviously very costly and spectacular but they do it alone. She has no desire to experience anything through her kids or grandkids. I’m not sure if that makes sense or what that means.

@Theydontwantme I think from what you’ve said, her behaviour could be the result of a not so great childhood. We all respond differently to trauma, and thankfully for your kids it’s made you into a loving, present parent. For your own mum, it seems to have had the opposite affect and she’s perhaps shut of that part of herself probably subconsciously as a form of protection, and she’s just not able to be the parent you need.

You can’t force her to feel the same joy from your family as you do because it’s simply not who she is. It’s hurtful and hard not to take it personally when you’ve done nothing to deserve it but I think you need to accept the situation for what it is, and go NC. Dwelling on it and ruminating about ‘why’ won’t fix anything. Focus on enjoying your own family and being a fantastic mum.

I think you are probably right. I get myself into a mess sometimes seeing friends pictures of their families. I also work with lots of older ladies with grandkids and they talk about them, miss them, take them out etc. There was a lady who didn’t think she was going to be a nanny and she used to talk so sadly about missing out and there’s mine with 4 grandkids that she isn’t much bothered about. I have tried I really have but I can’t do the relationship that she has to offer, I feel used.

Flip side to this is the performative not being there.

My narc FIL insisted we invited his current partner & OW to our wedding which we did on condition he and she knew she wasn’t actually invited (this level of crazy was completely alien to me but I went along with it because that’s what you do!). When he RSVPd for both of them to come we pointed out that obviously she wasn’t coming….cue massive drama about how could we do this…after everything…he went to her daughter’s wedding…why couldn’t my DH be more like her…blah, blah, blah.

He could have come with her, got a room at a fancy hotel, popped to the wedding without her for 2 hours then ducked out and they could have made a weekend of it without making it a Situation.

The card he sent (read out after the meal) even made it all about him! Thankfully we had a best man who was primed so it was intercepted before DH read it out in front of everyone.

Even if your narc doesn’t turn up to your wedding wearing white, she will have a drama on the day (how dare you take attention from her) or hold court taking praise on what a great job she’s done raising you. If she doesn’t come, her lack of presence will still somehow dominate proceedings.

It is ALWAYS all about her.