Mum will not allow me to spend time with other family members

[Nomorebullshitnotavailable]

There has been a long history of this. Title not entirely accurate as I am allowed to see my dad and my brother but only if she is there.

Quick overview - parents split over 30 years ago, I live closest to my mum, dad and brother live further away but in different locations to one another. I am the only one with children, all of whom are young (under 5).

There have been many instances of me asking to spend one on one time with my dad or my brother over the years. They don’t seem keen because they know it will cause issues with mum. If I bring it up with mum I get a lot of shit back (silent treatment, guilt tripping, tears etc).

I recently went to visit my dad (he usually comes to us as children haven’t travelled well) and my mum’s response was to go and stay with him (and his wife) for 3 days. By the way, she loathes him and constantly bitches about him to me. So, as self involved as it sounds, I do feel like the visit was to make a point to me.

She frequently spends one on time with my brother (ie every visit) but I am NEVER allowed to see him by myself. Even when my dad visits, he usually goes to her house first and then they will all come over to mine.

I do know there is something very toxic here. I have had therapy and I know that my mother is a major cause of anxiety and stress for me. Even putting reasonable boundaries in place is met with the usual silent treatment and guilt tripping.

There’s a lot more I could say but don’t really know where to start and end. My two questions really are:

1. Does anyone have any idea why she could be like this?
2. I can’t cut her off (I’ve tried just taking a break and the fallout really wasn’t worth it) so how do I handle this?

I’m really at my wits end, it has a huge impact on my mental health and I would be so grateful for any insights. Thank you.

This is not healthy. You do know you don’t have to put up with this just because it’s your mum right - protect your peace and consider low or no contact. She clearly has not been able to respond to any boundaries you have tried putting in place and you can only control your actions not anyone else’s.

I know. It’s so easy for me to say “oh yes, I know” but when everything is so enmeshed it’s harder (not impossible, but more difficult) to put into practice.

My mum was very volatile. In many ways very loving but, for example, I remember her storming into my room when I was probably about 10 with a suitcase and telling me that she was kicking us out to live with my dad. My brother had asked to spend more time with him and it had upset her.

When my brother was 11 he moved in with my dad. I was excluded from all the family conversations and didn’t know what was going on. Then he left and I had to pick my mum up and keep her going. I was 16 but never really spent proper time with my brother after that, I don’t think it occurred to anyone.

Sounds like the children (you and your brother) got divided in the divorce like possessions: your Dad got your brother and she got you - so you are HER CHILD.

Your Dad isn't allowed time with HER CHILD unless she supervises. Your brother isn't allowed access to HER CHILD unless she supervises. This is because when your brother spent time with your Dad, your brother left and abandoned her. So neither your brother nor your father is allowed unsupervised access to you HER CHILD in case spending time with them causes you to leave (abandon?) her too. Then she'll be all alone without any of you.

So now she absolutely controls access to HER child when it comes to your Dad and your brother, in order to prevent them convincing HER CHILD to abandon her too, just like they both did.

She's probably very nice to your brother in order to try to win him back from your Dad, so she can become the favoured parent once again.

Your brother and your Dad have already left (abandoned?) her - she had no choice but to let go of them, But you... She never had to let go, and she's holding on so tight she's drowning you.

There might be an element of truth to that, actually, thank you. I don’t think it explains everything but it might be a part of it. Thank you.

@ThorsRaven @Nomorebullshitnotavailable this rings true for my mum too - very possessive of me and weirdly about my body, my time etc, needing to account for my whereabouts constantly even as a young adult living away from home. I think mums (and it does often seem to be mums, from what I’ve read) see their children as an extension of them or even a possession. It’s really suffocating, but hard to see it happening to you when you’re ‘in’ it.

I don’t know about you, OP, but my mum’s behaviour significantly worsened when I began becoming more independent. I think she saw her control slipping and tried all sorts of dramatic behaviour to try and pull me back, including suicide threats (that she could walk in front of a lorry tomorrow and then I’d regret not seeing her more).

You sound like you have such mental clarity and strength. Wishing you all the very best, it’s a big step to realise this is happening in your family and that it’s not healthy or OK. You’re doing so well.

I would have confronted her ask why she is against you seeing your own father and brother without her being present. What does she have to hide? What is she scared you will find out? Why is she being allowed to control so many lives?

That really resonates with me too. When I announced my first pregnancy my mum started behaving strangely - she actually moved further away from me (which even dad and brother were forced to admit was strange) and her behaviour just started unravelling.

She will and would always get very upset/pissed off if my children wanted me instead of her, there were major dramas over moving Christmas to my house - just so so many small things. Complaining about feeling left out constantly (just of totally weird things).

I have often thought that me having my first child sort of started a chain reaction - she was frightened of losing control (I’ve never felt that she didn’t want to lose ME but rather her star status if that makes sense? Me having my own children would likely mean those children would like someone more than her! The tragedy! Won’t anyone think of the grandmother?!), her behaviour became more openly unhinged, I started seeing it for the first time, and, finally, bring a mother myself gave me a strength to fight back that I’d never had.

So our relationship is pretty in the toilet now!

Sorry being a mother not bring a mother. Of course anyone may bring a mother if they wish but they might find the thread a tough read…

All very good questions.

Whether this is connected or not, there are a few things that I remember from childhood which now, when I put it all together, make me wonder whether there might have been a little bit of mild neglect. But I don’t know how normal these things are. I remember:

Looking after my little brother and having to cook for him
Washing my own uniform from at least 13
Having to make my own birthday cake just after I’d come out of hospital at 12
I remember being really really hungry from about 13 - I was SO jealous of my friends who always seemed to have food in school or money to buy things.

I don’t know - this might be nothing and I’m just making a mountain out of a molehill.

😂

This made my heart ache for you…….what a dreadful situation. It certainly does seem as though there was some neglect. Perhaps your mother is afraid your dad or brother will speak of this to you and trigger your memories or create a reaction that she cannot cope with. They must both clearly remember all this happening in the family home. Sending you a hug and hope you find a resolution to all this.

I'm pretty sure that you are not making a mountain out of a molehill. The opposite in fact.

Your family sound like a cult where the most important tenet of their religion is that 'YOUR MOTHER MUST NOT BE UPSET'.

The members of the cult have to cling on to the delusion that your mum was a loving and caring mother to you, rather than a selfish narcissist who didn't even provide proper care when you were a child.

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable
None of what you describe of your childhood is mountains from molehill stuff. That is neglect - pure and simple.
You have been conditioned to forget and to protect yourself, you 'forget' how bad things were. Deep down you haven't forgotten at all which is why you strive to be a better parent than base your values on the parenting you didn't receive.

Uh - yes. That is exactly it actually. At all costs, mum must not be hurt/upset.

I’ve been thinking a lot about what familiar patterns I might start seeing within the family. My dad might call me and play peacemaker “Look just nod along, you don’t have to agree, but it’s not worth upsetting her, she’s your mum”. My brother gets very irate though and he has this really awful way of talking to me if I dare speak out against mum. It’s almost like disgust? Like “here she goes again, what’s your fucking problem this time? You’re just worthless trash” Not what he says but it’s what I hear.

Then there’s my mum. When I next see her there’ll be stoic silent treatment - you know - “you’ve really hurt me but here I am putting a brave face on”. But she’s waiting for me to ask what’s wrong, waiting for me to be visibly upset and anxious, waiting for the emotional showdown where she’s validated as a great mother.

I’m not fucking engaging with any of it anymore.

I’m putting other practical things in place to cut the apron strings (stupid stuff just to rely on her less, just un-enmeshing if you see what I mean).

Thank you for this - yes I’m wondering now if my total fixation on constant self improvement as a parent is driven by a fear of being what my parents were?

You're doing the right thing, @Nomorebullshitnotavailable .

Some years back, my stepdaughter and her partner were supposed to stay with us. (This would have been about 30 yrs ago.)

I got the house ready, bought new bedding for the bed-settee... Got a meal ready.

DH was all excited for their arrival. Time passed. No show.

DH was terrified that they'd crashed their car on the drive up to Scotland. He phoned his ex. Had she heard anything?

"They're here! I'll put [DD] on the phone now."

DH: "What happened? I thought you were staying with us this time?"

DD [tearfully] "Mum thought we were staying with her and I couldn't hurt her feelings."

That broke DH.

You're absolutely in the right. I wish I'd insisted on putting my foot down years ago.

That’s really really heartbreaking, it’s horrendous that your husband had to go through that (and by extension, you). I’m so sorry for your stepdaughter too.

The ripples of how many people are hurt by one person is staggeringly awful.

I’m so appreciative of your words of support, they mean a lot. I’m determined to get out before it’s too late.

You can't control what they do only what you do. I would start refusing to go along with their plans if its bothering you and causing anxiety. Otherwise its just going to carry on the way it is with your mother laying down the law.

Oh OP, you absolutely were horribly neglected.
Funny how denial of food is often a method of abuse.
Denial of the very basic comfort of a full tummy for a child.

Its funny but I have been reminded via my children recently about all the bun baking I did when they were small and how on nights out when they run into old friends how they always remember my baking and toadties and soup when they would come to play.
It was such a strong happy childhood memory for them.
One boy couldn't remember my name when he ran into my son, but could clearly remember his favourite cakes i made.

Children and their food!

Hunger is just the worst.

I’m smiling because that paints a picture of such a loving, warm home where everyone was welcome. Smiling and welling up, actually! What a wonderful mother you must be.

So sorry, this is all me me me isn’t it, but I remember my mum making fun of other parents who would do things like drop their kids at school and pick them after young teenage nights out. She would say how pathetic it was that these women’s lives revolved around their children and it was important for her to pursue her new career. That that’s what made a good mum, setting an example of independence etc etc.

I bought into it for a long time but was always so deeply jealous of a close friend whose mother was so, I don’t know, just there, I suppose. And I’ve never felt that’s the kind of mother I want to be. Which somewhat says it all.

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable this os your thread so it should be about you.

I'm glad it's helping you.

We were all teens at the time (there were a few 'cutting off' moments over the years until we fully stopped trying!), so I'm not sure if it would be the same as your brother is an adult.

She basically started getting angry with him if he spent time with my Dad, lots of of emotional manipulation including telling him (when he had not long started high school) that she would kill herself if he also left.

He did leave and she did not kill herself.

He still felt the the immense guilt and loyalty for a few years, but then the rose tinted specs came off and he realised how bad she made him feel. His mental health has always been affected by it, even now in his 30s.

In some ways I think it was harder for him because he was used to be being the favourite and treated a certain way, so it was a shock to his system.
Emotional manipulation is SOOOO damaging. You never know where you are or why the person who is supposed to make you feel safe acts like that - making you walk on eggshells or wondering what you've done wrong.

I've went completely the other way with my children, possibly too much and I baby them a bit. But I would rather that than them ever feel how we did! Mine know that no matter what, I'm there. I will support them with anything I'm able to and my main concern will always be their happiness and good mental health.

Edited as I stopped half way through writing then picked it back up wrong, sorry!

That makes so much awful sense. And yes, emotional manipulation is terribly debilitating when you’ve grown up with it, isn’t it?

I suspect that you and I are similar in that we instinctively knew that we wanted to be better/different mothers than we had - I’m sure, like you, I overcompensate! But really, how can you be TOO loving? No one is a perfect parent, but to be aware of our own personal traps has got to put us on steadier ground.

Thank you so so much for sharing x

Thank you - I have actually had it said many times by my husband and various therapists that I apologise too much.

Interestingly, never by my family!

Actually I do just have to say this, to everyone who has taken time out of their busy lives to help out a total and anonymous stranger:

Thank you. I don’t think any of you will ever know how much it has meant to me, how much of a huge shift is taking place in my head, and what it will mean for me and my family (my “new” family) moving forward in my life.

You have done more good than 3 therapists over the years, have asked insightful and thoughtful questions, had patience with me and given me a space to really work out my thoughts. And you’ve shared your own, often painful, experiences.

I will never ever forget this and I’m grateful to each and every one of you. If I met you in person I would be hugging and bestowing cake!!