Mum will not allow me to spend time with other family members

[Nomorebullshitnotavailable]

There has been a long history of this. Title not entirely accurate as I am allowed to see my dad and my brother but only if she is there.

Quick overview - parents split over 30 years ago, I live closest to my mum, dad and brother live further away but in different locations to one another. I am the only one with children, all of whom are young (under 5).

There have been many instances of me asking to spend one on one time with my dad or my brother over the years. They don’t seem keen because they know it will cause issues with mum. If I bring it up with mum I get a lot of shit back (silent treatment, guilt tripping, tears etc).

I recently went to visit my dad (he usually comes to us as children haven’t travelled well) and my mum’s response was to go and stay with him (and his wife) for 3 days. By the way, she loathes him and constantly bitches about him to me. So, as self involved as it sounds, I do feel like the visit was to make a point to me.

She frequently spends one on time with my brother (ie every visit) but I am NEVER allowed to see him by myself. Even when my dad visits, he usually goes to her house first and then they will all come over to mine.

I do know there is something very toxic here. I have had therapy and I know that my mother is a major cause of anxiety and stress for me. Even putting reasonable boundaries in place is met with the usual silent treatment and guilt tripping.

There’s a lot more I could say but don’t really know where to start and end. My two questions really are:

1. Does anyone have any idea why she could be like this?
2. I can’t cut her off (I’ve tried just taking a break and the fallout really wasn’t worth it) so how do I handle this?

I’m really at my wits end, it has a huge impact on my mental health and I would be so grateful for any insights. Thank you.

The boat rocking analogy is fantastic and such an accurate description of this kind of family system.

You may find the book "You're Not Crazy, it's Your Mother" helpful, and I think it's important to understand that you can't force your brother and dad to see things as you do, you can waste a lot of time trying to convince the rest of the family about what is disfunctional and end up feeling increasingly isolated and alone. If I could start my process again I would focus on myself (and DH, children etc) and let what happens with the rest happen. That sounds a bit bleak and I don't mean it to!

Re my childhood - parents broke up when I was 9 but I only remember being relieved because of the arguments. I used to have nightmares that my mum would leave.

My dad remarried when I was 11 but the woman was an alcoholic. Verbally abusive to me and physically abusive to my dad. She would come into my room at night when we stayed over and tell me no one wanted me. My brother is younger than me and so I protected him from a lot of that.

My mum was very volatile. In many ways very loving but, for example, I remember her storming into my room when I was probably about 10 with a suitcase and telling me that she was kicking us out to live with my dad. My brother had asked to spend more time with him and it had upset her.

When my brother was 11 he moved in with my dad. I was excluded from all the family conversations and didn’t know what was going on. Then he left and I had to pick my mum up and keep her going. I was 16 but never really spent proper time with my brother after that, I don’t think it occurred to anyone.

For the years after that before I left home my mum made it quite clear that she didn’t want me living there. She would vehemently deny that though and often talks about how lovely it was and how much fun we’d have if we lived together again.

That probably covers the highlights!

Thank you to all who are commenting - I’m taking everything on board and it’s such a relief to know I’m not crazy. I’m autistic with ADHD and so I find it very hard to know what is and isn’t normal. The family relationships have put me under a huge amount of pressure over the years. My daughter has very complex needs associated with autism and so my attention is very much on MY family now, which I think is bound to inflame the situation.

Wow I've never considered this kind of control dynamic where a person goes to stay with EX and his WIFE when she loathes him, all to feel in control of relationships!

My mother always made it a fuss when I saw my dad growing up, said I came back with attitude when actually she was hyper vigilant and extremely on edge looking for a fight when I got back, all through life from age 8 to 37 now I still have lressure to make visits even to both or I hear about it. I have a child and she totally begrudges time my child spends with me and his grandad. However I've never heard the like of your mother, it really has to just be a control thing, like she needs to be party to your relationship with everyone and exerts control with her pretense.

Only ting to do if you don't want to continue is address if firmly and have that row she's clearly going to have with you sadly. Or speak to your dad and brother about it and ask them to not make it a big deal when you visit.

Sounds like an extreme version of my mum and you have my sympathy, volatile and rearranging the past in her mind rings so familiar!!

My DP’s ex always insisted that my DP visit their adult children, one of whom no longer lived with her, at her house in her presence. I assume it was because she was afraid of being left out (DP was the one who left). It took about 10 years but that’s finally ended now, although she still tries to insert herself a lot. Was it your dad who left your mother?

Thank you x

No she actually kicked him out I think. He was heartbroken. I remember him crying when we went to visit him and saying that he would “tell us when we were older” what really happened. I’m in my forties now and yet to hear!

She would not acknowledge there is a problem, cry and say either that she may as well kill herself or that she’ll be dead soon anyway (she’s been saying this for decades and is fine).

to which the reply is

well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.
well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.
well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.
well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.
well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.
well im sorry you feel like that, its happening.

if she tries to emotionally blackmail you any further

well im sorry you feel like that
well im sorry you feel like that
well im sorry you feel like that

if she tries to lay blame with you for her emotional state

I suggest you seek help
I suggest you seek help
I suggest you seek help
I suggest you seek help
I suggest you seek help
I suggest you seek help

stay clam and keep repeating the same sentences- don't get pulled into an argument, don't get pulled in to say any more

broken record often works best with children, but its very useful with immature adults, sadly your mother seems to fall into the immature category

My mum isn't as batshit as yours in terms of not letting me see people on my own, but she has exhibited pretty much all the other behaviours you describe, including threatening to kill herself/describing herself as the world's worst person if you try and gently/directly challenge any of her behaviours.

I have diagnosed her as a narcissist. She may well not be. But there's something about her that is extraordinarily resistant to self-reflection, and extremely controlling.

There have been periods of my life where I've gone non-contact when she's really crossed the line, and either told her very directly that I am not going to have anything more to do with her until she apologises for her batshit behaviour, or just ignored her until I felt mentally able to deal with her again.

I once told her plainly that she wouldn't see me or my son until she apologised (for accusing me of being a bad mother/risking my son's life and badmouthing me all over social media and among her friends), and she sulked for 9 months and then apologised. She did not, in spite all threats, kill herself for 'being in the wrong again'.

I'd take this approach and tell her straight that she either recognises your right to have a one to one relationship with other people, or she doesn't have one with you - you have to be super firm, I have found.

OP, I know this isn’t remotely helpful but I just wanted to say that from your posts here, you sound great. Very sane and sensible (despite your incredibly toxic mother and enabling father/brother), and I’m absolutely sure you’re a great mum yourself, even though you’ve had no real mothering — ever, from the sound of it. And I’m glad you have your DH to remind you how batshit your mum is, should you ever need it.

Well we cannot know why she behaves like this. We can only control one’s own behaviour and actions.
a stern talk with your dad is in order to help him back you up in just not telling her stuff.

as you have mentioned, your brother has a very different experience of mothering and it sounds like a complex relationship there.

setting boundaries for you and your family is important. Sticking to them with the backup of your husband and father. And just keep going. Good luck x

I think I’d be looking at ways to move closer to brother and father. Your mum sounds seriously deranged and you need to put some physical and metaphorical distance between you.

Good advice here.

also sadly speaking from experience.

OP, I’m glad you’re finding some validation here and have been able to consider your next moves.

While I have no experience of this particular kind of dynamic, I hope me telling you about a different way of ‘doing family’ might also widen your perspectives on how things can be done. I often read threads like this and muse on how ‘in touch’ some families are. Like they have daily phone calls, sharing what’s happening in great detail etc. That’s what some people are used to but for me that wouldn’t be enough space to get on with my own household’s life. I speak to my Mum about once a week (not set in stone) and we email in the interim (she doesn’t have a smartphone so no texts etc). We have a good and positive relationship which is normal for us. I wonder if it comes from me leaving home at 18 to work abroad, then college, jobs etc moving about the UK. Your energy needs to be on your family, your home life and how you and your DH want it to be.

That’s just my take. I know people who couldn’t get through the day without texting or actually seeing their Mum and that works for them.

I hope you are able to have a positive conversation with your Dad. Your brother sounds very locked in to the whole mindset so you may need to let him figure out how to move through life for now, which may mean you miss him for a while. It is sad but what would be best for you two and the kids right now? The boat analogy is fab!

OP I’m so sorry you’re going through this. To echo what others have said this isn’t just a mother problem she’s inserted herself into everyone’s lives and they’re all enabling her. I’m afraid this is now a family problem. The only way you’ll free yourself of it is to be firm with your boundaries. I completely understand the mentality of going along with it to keep the peace (I’ve done it myself for many years) but in doing so you’re destroying your peace. You have a family of your own now, protect your sanity for your sake and theirs. It takes time but it will be worth it in the end.

My mother was similar. I went low contact with her and she actually prevented me from having contact with the rest of my family by making a fuss if I did. I wrote to a relative who was in long term care and she made pointed comments about this. I wouldn’t be surprised if she asked to see the letters. Sorry but I have no solutions.

Sorry to say this OP but if your Dad and your brother are happy to go along with it is there some reason they don't want to see you on a one on one basis.

There’s no reason she could give that would make it ok though is there so it’s somewhat irrelevant. Your dad is enabling her though so he’s as bad, he’s happy to throw you under the bus to appease her.

i can’t be good for your children to have such poor behaviour modelled. They’ll either think they can treat you badly or they will accept poor treatment.

only one who can control how you are treated is you. I know you know that! Wishing people would be different, whilst understandable, isn’t helpful. It doesn’t work. We arent that powerful.

Broken record and grey rock.

She's ill and you don't have r to cope with this anymore.

She's not the boss of you.

Xxxx Get strong.

Honestly I’m so blown away with how kind and helpful everyone is being. And thank you to those sharing their experiences. Some of those sound far harder to me - my mum isn’t consistently “bad”, in fact mostly she’s great (on the face of it). But I have to consistently meet her expectations of behaviour or else I’ll be punished. I’ve been told by a therapist that I have a very anxious attachment type. Suspect it’s because I never knew when the other shoe might drop and in order to have my mum I had to keep her happy. It’s draining to be honest - I don’t have that energy anymore. What energy I have goes to my family.

Sometimes I really try to put myself in her shoes now that I’m a mum. But the thought of treating my children the same way or threatening death because they wanted to spend one on one time together as adults (which would make me so happy!!) is just so in opposition to how I think and parent that I can’t get my head around it.

Great rock

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock

Yes that’s the conclusion I always come to. My husband assures me that I’m not a wholly objectionable person though!

Honestly you are worthy of love and respect.

In that case, you don't have a mother problem, you have a dad and brother problem.