Mum will not allow me to spend time with other family members

[Nomorebullshitnotavailable]

There has been a long history of this. Title not entirely accurate as I am allowed to see my dad and my brother but only if she is there.

Quick overview - parents split over 30 years ago, I live closest to my mum, dad and brother live further away but in different locations to one another. I am the only one with children, all of whom are young (under 5).

There have been many instances of me asking to spend one on one time with my dad or my brother over the years. They don’t seem keen because they know it will cause issues with mum. If I bring it up with mum I get a lot of shit back (silent treatment, guilt tripping, tears etc).

I recently went to visit my dad (he usually comes to us as children haven’t travelled well) and my mum’s response was to go and stay with him (and his wife) for 3 days. By the way, she loathes him and constantly bitches about him to me. So, as self involved as it sounds, I do feel like the visit was to make a point to me.

She frequently spends one on time with my brother (ie every visit) but I am NEVER allowed to see him by myself. Even when my dad visits, he usually goes to her house first and then they will all come over to mine.

I do know there is something very toxic here. I have had therapy and I know that my mother is a major cause of anxiety and stress for me. Even putting reasonable boundaries in place is met with the usual silent treatment and guilt tripping.

There’s a lot more I could say but don’t really know where to start and end. My two questions really are:

1. Does anyone have any idea why she could be like this?
2. I can’t cut her off (I’ve tried just taking a break and the fallout really wasn’t worth it) so how do I handle this?

I’m really at my wits end, it has a huge impact on my mental health and I would be so grateful for any insights. Thank you.

You might be having your own lightbulb moment!
Lean into why exactly it is that you feel so uncomfortable.
Could it be that she always was and is, one way with you, but has magically morphed into someone so different with your children?

She can't be two people.
Which one is real?
Who benefits from her being over the top?
Is it her?
Does it give her a control over you and your children that you otherwise wouldn't tolerate?

Tease it out in your head.

This is why I firmly believe that parents that abused their children should never be granted access to grandchildren, under any circumstances.

So many abused children remain in contact with awful parents, because they wrongly believe they have to preserve the grandparent relationship at all cost, and often because their abusive parents demand it.

Just more abuse, becoming intergenerational abuse.

Once you educate yourself to this possibility, you can never unsee it.

This is so difficult. In many ways she was a very loving and supportive parent - still is - but it’s so contingent upon my good behaviour, and me falling short (in her eyes) results in such dramatic behaviour from her.

I think it’s the control that I struggle with the most. I always feel so stifled. For example, recently I responded to a message with just a heart emoji and she messaged back asking where her kisses were. I have to make sure that anything I say is said in the right way, that my behaviour is “correct”, that she doesn’t feel in any way criticised/left out/etc. I find it exhausting.

I wonder if the reason I find her behaviour with the kids so difficult to watch is because I worry that in the end they’ll prefer her like everyone else seems to? Gosh that sounds dreadfully self involved.

Actually that makes sense as a motivation from her as well. My daughter (eldest) is severely autistic and really doesn’t respond to my mum at all - and now my mum will pretty much ignore her but absolutely fawns over the youngest. Because, I suppose, she wasn’t getting what she wanted from her (unwavering adoration). I’ve always said the best thing about my daughter is her total don’t give a fuck attitude, I’ve always admired that about her!!

I actually did pull her up on that and had a horrendous conversation over being an equal grandmother to everyone.

Even examples of your mum being nice to you either have an ulterior motive or there is a sting in the tail. She is never just straightforwardly nice and loving to you and your children.

She always has to have favourites and to make it clear to the non-favourite child where they stand in the pecking order. There seems to be a 'golden child' and 'scapegoat' dynamic in two generations. Your brother (golden child) and you (scapegoat) and your younger child (golden child) and your elder child with autism (scapegoat). This is very unhealthy and you need to pull right away to protect your children.

I think you should read up on narcissists.
Everything is on her terms.
This is not a good dynamic for you or your children.

I'm not saying you should cut her off immediately, but I would pull back and I wouldn't be rushing to fix her inevitable tantrum when you don't behave as she wants.

Space is what you need to gain perspective.
I wouldn't answer or respond to your brothers inevitable lashing out as her flying monkey.

He cares only for himself.
It can be very painful to realise this, but ultimately it is rewarding to not live a life of hope and expectations, that will never be realised.

Yes my husband and I do joke about my brother clearly being the golden child.

I've got an audiobook about daughters of narcissistic mothers and I’ve made enquiries with a good therapist.

I’ve also told my dad that mum won’t be attending our next meeting and completely ignored the snide “Well I think dad and stepmother were expecting me there but I’m sure you’ll tell them” from my mother. There will be more to come but I’m going to use the time to prepare emotionally distancing myself.

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable

"My mother certainly is so over the top with the kids that it’s really uncomfortable to watch (for both me and my husband) but I’ve never understood why it feels so sickening"
This isn't unusual and says it all really plus your comment about how your eldest DC is now ignored. Your mother is trying to be more popular and loved by your children than you are and yes, it is feeding her desire to be the bestest, most loved person ever in everyone's lives. This is why everyone outside of the family thinks she's so lovely - where would the adoration and affirmation come from if she showed her true self? Your youngest DC is already 'learning' from grandmother that she is more 'worthy' of DGM's love than their sibling. Is that what you want? Of course not but this is what your DC are absorbing and that isn't a love that you want from a grandparent is it?

Absolutely go back into therapy and do it soon. Find a therapist that gets 'you' and don't just go with the first one. Therapists are a bit like shoes in that you keep trying until you find one that fits. It will be a hard road but you need to commit to reaching the end and deciding if you want to LC with hard boundaries or take the sad decision to go NC completely.

You do realise that people like your mother don't really feel love or love others like others do - like you do? They behave like they adore 'their people' but in reality they don't - they adore the feeling of the love returned from their own 'faux' love and basically suck it up like a vampire to feed a void within. It's incredibly destructive and damaging but also leaves the victims in a constant state of confusion and flux because of the training to continue the flow of attention/need. This is why this personality type reacts badly to criticism, or when attention is drawn to their poor behaviour, leading to dramatics and threats. It's a form of such overwhelming powerful control that when you want to push back you recoil because of how she reacted to your previous efforts and you've been trained to think about that rather than limiting her behaviour and pushing back to enforce boundaries.

In many ways she was a very loving and supportive parent - still is - but it’s so contingent upon my good behaviour, and me falling short (in her eyes) results in such dramatic behaviour from her.

So she actually isn't a loving & supportive parent because it is conditional.

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable

"I’ve also told my dad that mum won’t be attending our next meeting and completely ignored the snide “Well I think dad and stepmother were expecting me there but I’m sure you’ll tell them” from my mother"

I'm really sorry but this comment alone tells you everything that you need to know. You now have two options - cancel the visit or when she turns up/or is already there, you leave immediately and return home. You then tell your dad that this will happen every time until he grows a back bone. I suspect that you're in for the long haul over this one because your dad does not have your back because he's got your mother's instead.

I’m also thinking now about all the times my brother talks about how lovely the relationship is between my mum and my youngest child and how they’re best friends. It gives me such anxiety. He got really angry when I told him that I was going to speak to mum about how she does not treat the children equally in terms of attention.

My dad sounded really uncomfortable when I told him that mum wasn’t coming and actually did try to find excuses to cancel the visit (he’s coming to me this time).

God my family are really shit aren’t they? I’ve sometimes played out in my head saying and doing to my children the things that have been done to me to see if I’m over dramatising and I’m not exaggerating when I say it feels like a body blow. How could anyone hurt my lovely children that way. Why didn’t anyone feel that way about me?

There’s been so much over the years that’s popping into my head now. I’m sorry that I’m using this thread as an outlet but this is, I think, the first time I’m starting to see things clearly.

Actually I suspect dad will visit mum first before he comes to me and she’ll make a point of making the visit as long as possible.

Unfortunately you cannot see the wood for the trees, process the toxic bullshit you have endured, and ultimately move forward without lots of unpleasant flashbacks, shocking memories, and deeply uncomfortable feelings first.

Lean into these memories and feelings.
Feel them.
Really feel and explore them.
This is so healthy.
This is how you begin to move forward.

Perhaps you won't see any of them.
They are toxic and selfish.
You are not.

It is unsurprising that there is a disconnect.
You have probably been in major denial for a long long time about the truth.

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable when is dad due a visit?

@Nomorebullshitnotavailable

"Actually I suspect dad will visit mum first before he comes to me and she’ll make a point of making the visit as long as possible"

And that will be his loss will it not? If he'd rather waste the time with your mother than you and your DC then you need to look at it as his loss first and foremost.

Your brother doesn't have your back either. He is as much a victim as you are but, and I mean this kindly, he is not your problem. His relationship with you/your family unit and his chosen relationship with your mother is his issue - not yours. Your focus is on your own unit and it's unity together and how you weed out this poison that your mother perpetrates throughout your family.
Other than your dad, he is/will be flying monkey number one. He primed like a grenade to destabilise you when you push back but also wishes to keep you off balance for his own purposes such as keeping attention off himself. His comment about how DC2 is so loved by your mum is designed to make you feel panic and confusion. So put him in a separate problem box to be looked at later because he is not your friend in this either.

You’re being so very kind and patient with me, thank you ❤️x

I’m in a bit of emotional turbulence right now but for the first time I’m really (REALLY) trying very hard not to minimise it or put it into a locked little box in my head. And I have a rare empty weekend to spend with my beautiful kids and my lovely husband. For whom I feel terribly lucky and blessed to have. My children have the most natural comedic souls, they never fail to make me laugh!

Not until next weekend. I have some time to prepare and gather my thoughts.

God my family are really shit aren’t they? I’ve sometimes played out in my head saying and doing to my children the things that have been done to me to see if I’m over dramatising and I’m not exaggerating when I say it feels like a body blow. How could anyone hurt my lovely children that way. Why didn’t anyone feel that way about me?
This is so heartbreaking. I really feel for you OP, and can't do much to help but can at least send a virtual hug and 💐. I wish I could do more.

There’s been so much over the years that’s popping into my head now. I’m sorry that I’m using this thread as an outlet but this is, I think, the first time I’m starting to see things clearly.

Don't apologise for how you are using this thread, you are amazing, and your obvious courage will get you to a much better place x

Yes you are completely right. I was put into a very early position of responsibility for my brother, both in terms of protecting his emotional wellbeing and physically taking care of him. I don’t have to be that person anymore.

That’s immeasurably kind of you - I will take that hug!

I keep mentally slipping back to “oh for goodness sake, pull yourself together, it’s not that bad” but I’m trying so hard to just keep.with.it. I’m not inventing things, I’m not catastrophising (this has a wiggly red line but I was certain it was a word!) - I wouldn’t be feeling such an impact from absolutely nothing would I?

I’m not perfect. I’ve said and done things in anger that I wish I could take back. I’ve been over opinionated and impatient and really struggle to regulate my emotions at high stress points. But I can say with confidence that I have NEVER (and it goes against all my natural instincts) put anyone, including myself, above my kids. I know that some comments have highlighted that by allowing this to continue I will inevitably be doing just that.

The one comfort I can take is that the only times I have ever stood up, really truly stood up (and in the process at times been pretty mean and sharp) to my mum is when my kids are on the line.

They are and always will be my strength and courage. But I’ve really got to live that now, all the time. And somehow tell myself that I deserve the same.

Oh gosh this is all getting terribly b-rated inspirational tv movie isn’t it!

Oh gosh this is all getting terribly b-rated inspirational tv movie isn’t it!

That's ok, if anyone suggests you try singing "The sun will come out tomorrow", slap them :D

I wonder if dynamics would change with your brother if you (in my opinion, did the best thing for you!) completely cut yourself off from your Mum.

My brother was my Mum's favourite. After my sister and me cut her off she then started putting her toxicity on to him because there was no one else. Not that I'm saying that was a good thing! It wasn't. It did, however, give him an insight into what we had been dealing with up until then.

Funnily enough my sister and me gave her a few chances afterwards and he hasn't. She wasn't even invited to his wedding.

Absolutely brilliant 😂x

Oh that’s really interesting. Not to pry, but how did that switch happen, ie. How did she start to turn the toxicity to him? In what form? And (this makes me sound awful) how long did it take for him to see it? I’m so sorry for being nosy!

Your mother sounds like she's got some kind of personality disorder. You can't win with people like that. Terrible advice I know, but why dont you all just meet up behind her back because she is obviously too unstable to cope with the fact that other people have needs and rights too.

I echo everything that has been said.
I just wanted to add that it sounds like you need a few well rehearsed phrases in your mind for when she says something awful. Practice them again and again. Role play it with your husband even.

Things like:
She says, ‘ I am going to kill my self because of you’. You say, ‘I hope you don’t’ ( and then STOP) and don’t say anything more. Or just repeat ‘I hope you don’t’ when she says it again with more vigour.

‘I am sorry you feel that way, it certainly isn’t my intention’

‘I need to consider what you just said. Let’s stop talking now to give me time to think and chat again next week’

‘I cannot be the one to help you with this right now.’

See what feels comfortable for you.
Stick them up on post it notes by where you generally take phone calls from her so you are able to pull on them when needed.

Be aware she will ramp it up initially. Be prepared with your stock phrase and repeat or hang up.

Good luck.

This is good, practical advice. Thank you. I will start to plot these out to have them prepared (I feel like I may have something incoming from her!).