Help - Sex and Touch being withheld

[HusbandAndDad44]

Dad here. 44yo. My wife of 13 years weaponises sex, and more recently, touch. She always has to some degree I guess but it has gotten unbearable. She’s aware I have a need for touch and have a high sex drive compared to her. She basically keeps it from me in a controlling way. She knows I need contact like occasional cuddles too.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to. My advances would be regularly and firmly blocked in no uncertain terms.

Since then things have gotten much worse, with certain acts being withheld indefinitely, and frequency diminishing more and more.
Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.
“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).

Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.
This lead to her storming out and preferring to sleep in another room rather than engage when I was trying to talk to her and express I feel she never has time for me.

Anyway, I was unusually angered at work today - just as much about the refusal to talk about it and the assumption she’s right (again), as about the no sex thing.
I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time.
It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.

What has my life become? I feel utterly unwanted and deeply unsatisfied and alone.
I still love her and find her very attractive but my awareness of all the other selfish sides of her and ignoring basically all my needs (I think deliberately) makes it like ongoing torture to want to continue on like this.
I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem, it strangely that there’s no problem, or the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

Help and advice needed please! In particular from a woman’s perspective, thanks

I was with my exh for over 25 years, and for much of that time, I had no desire for sex. At first, I blamed myself, maybe hormones, maybe something changed after having kids, but eventually I realized the issue was him. He was selfish, controlling, and emotionally dismissive. I never felt like an equal partner; my needs and opinions were ignored, and I felt trapped.

To keep peace, I forced myself to have sex. I had to pretend to enjoy it, and while I didn’t blame him, it often felt like a violation. Unwanted sex, even in marriage, is traumatic.

Bedroom issues are usually a sign of deeper problems, could be medical, emotional, or relational. My advice: talk to your wife, ask what’s really going on, suggest counselling. If she’s unwilling, consider separation. This won’t fix itself.

You sound like an annoying randy schoolboy trying to twizzle her nipples - I’m not surprised she walked out. Also, storming off to the cinema and giving her the silent treatment - massive red flag - what a baby. This marriage sounds miserable. You say you “like cuddles” but ill guess she has stopped because you try and turn every single cuddle into a “quickie.” Your poor wife.

This reminds me so much of my last years with my (thankfully for us both) ex husband, when I was desperate to leave him but for various reasons was unable to do so- and had occasionally to endure sex with him. Teeth gritted, trying to stop myself every moment from pushing his hand away, just longing for it to be over for the fortnight, uurgh.

This is a dreadful way to live- a distortion of the natural human wish for intimacy & sexual contact. It’s terrible for both partners- the woman (in this case) who has to endure something distasteful which with a different partner would be a source of happiness; and the unhappy man who is constantly rejected & at some level knows his sexuality repulses his partner.

OP, I am sorry to say that from your description I think your wife has lost all sexual interest in you. She does not want any physical contact with you. No nipple touching or hugging or kissing or sex. Nothing. She does not want to feel your hands on her body.

This doesn’t generally get repaired. It is a pretty terminal state. It also does not mean there is anything wrong with you, or her- it’s just the stage your relationship has reached.

You mention you pay the mortgage & she works part time, & you have children. I suspect what’s going on here is she feels unable to divorce, but is deeply unhappy & no longer wants an intimate relationship with you. For both of your sakes I suggest you sit down & openly admit together that she no longer wants physical contact, without blame or trying to change her, & together weigh up your options- essentially either an amicable divorce, or an open relationship.

You both seem so unhappy one can't see it ever working and reading your article, you are unhappy it's gone beyond councilling and so much more, get separated end this misery for both of you. It's not worth it , sell the house, brake all ties and be happy again things will only get worse , she could go to work to support young ones and you could both be happy again , sell the house and get somewhere smaller for both of you li
ke a flat, same for her, if you have children you may have to support them, this seems a loveless marriage, you are young and she is start over neither of you can be happy Like this . Good luck

@HusbandAndDad44 your whole post frames it about YOU, how your wife withheld something because she knows you want it, you are front and centre about it

You asked me how you are weaponising something you accused her of and I answered but going further I think it is the above. You see her not going things as withholding and punishing you.

Why? What makes you think that rather than the more obvious potential truths

1. perimenopause has screwed her sex drive up
2. family life gets in the way
3. she doesn’t feel like a teenager anymore
4. she feels unattractive and frumpy
5. she no longer finds you attractive
6. a pick and mix of the above

because all of the above are far more likely as is the fact she has been having sex out of a marital sense of duty which are our stage of life is fairly common.

what makes you think she is weaponising it against you?

because you aren’t as my teenagers would say the main character

Based solely on my own relationship experience, and that of my friends, the thing which kills sexual desire stone dead in a relationship is having to parent a partner. Looking after another adult in the same way that you look after your children is the least sexy thing in the world and it’s very very hard to feel that person is attractive because it makes them seem less competent.

So, in your position I’d really try and think about whether she has ever communicated any issues like this to you. Ever raised the household chores split? Ever spoken to you about picking up after yourself.

Quite a lot of your post shows that she is the default parent. You’ve gone to the cinema without arranging childcare - you’ve just assumed she would do it. You had a lie down when you had a headache - but she was already lying down so no one was looking after the kids. You assessed your housework split as pretty low. She’s the one who has gone part time round the kids.

A pp has recommended taking a look at Jimmy on Facebook who posts about this issue and I’d second that.

Id also recommend that for six months you increase your share of household chores to be larger than hers, take over the mental load of managing half of them (this means don’t just cook half the time - also take over the meal planning, shopping etc), take over 50% of looking after the kids outside school hours (including 50% of the responsibility- ie organise the school stuff, plan and prepare for the play dates, organise the clubs, buy the presents for the friends birthday party). And prioritise her getting time to herself as much as you prioritise that for yourself (in the house as well as going out). Before asking her for anything, think to yourself “can I solve this without her help?” Do this with a view that it is a forever change, so find ways to do it sustainably - not just in order to see if it helps with sex.

After six months, without mentioning it at all, if sex hasn’t improved then Id try asking again whether you can talk about it.

I think lots of pp are spot on but I will add that for me I need regular ‘me time’ to want sex. I can’t be mum all day then jumping into bed all sexy at night. I ONLY want sex when I’ve had time to be me not just mum. And luckily for me my DH is very supportive and we have a wonderful sex life now the kids are slightly older

How old is your wife? She could be menopausal and for a lot of women that completely kills of your sex drive.
Its probably though as has been suggested things that have happened or you’ve done that have made her unhappy and not want to have sex with you, I’ve know idea why but she clearly doesn’t feel comfortable telling you so therapy is a good idea.
Also lay off asking for sex, there’s nothing worse than having sex with a man when you’re only doing it to keep the peace, I know that must feel rejecting but consent should feel enthusiastic and she obviously isn’t. If you can’t do that and she refuses therapy then it’s probably a sexless marriage or it’s over.

Sex aside, I'm surprised at the responses suggesting he's a creep, needy or ick for wanting the odd hug from his wife.
I would say this sort of feel-better-hug is something that women want more than men, and I'd certainly feel unloved without such things.
How dare he want a little affection from his wife?

Hi OP I think you’ve had a tough time on here. I agree with the PP who said that your biggest issue is a communication one. Your issue with sex is likely to be a symptom not a cause.

Your thread reminded me of this one:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5073917-wife-no-longer-interested-since-kids-advice

It might be helpful to read it. From memory this thread started out quite antagonistic towards the OP but became more understanding as the situation was explained.

I also think that your best starting point is probably counselling, but not initially to discuss your sex lives but to talk about what is currently going uncommunicated. Could you say something along the lines of ‘I love you and I want you to be happy. I can see that you’re unhappy and I recognise that I’m part of that. I want to know how I can love you better but we might need some help to talk about these things in a helpful way. What do you think about finding a counsellor to help us to communicate and understand each other better?’

Your comment about finding your wife attractive but not being sure that she sees herself as attractive at the moment is likely to be quite significant. Being in the right headspace to enjoy sex is huge for women and a big part of that is how we feel about ourselves.

The second thing to mention is that having young children you’re largely responsible for and working part time to fit in with them can have the effect of slowly draining you of your sense of worth and self esteem. I don’t know your circumstances obviously but if it’s the case that your wife works a part time job that she’s overqualified for but does because it fits in with the children and she spends the rest of her time dropping off/picking up, sorting clubs, play dates and the majority of the housework she may well feel a bit rubbish. There’s a general sense of being at the beck and call of everyone else and that their thriving is more important than yours. I know because I’ve been there. It’s hard to explain because I’m sure from the other side it sometimes looks preferable to the job you’re doing which involves long hours, pressure to perform well and the feeling of being financially responsible for your family. This is not a rant that you should necessarily do more housework by the way, I don’t know if that’s being organised fairly or not already, but just to bear in mind that whilst you get a pat on the back or a bonus or just the personal satisfaction of your career progressing nicely and people thinking you’re doing well, your wife probably doesn’t feel that for herself. Even if you tell her you appreciate what she does. I went back to full time work when my kids were mid teens. I had to start at the bottom of my profession and it was incredibly hard work but my self confidence went through the roof. I’m not saying that this is the main issue for you and your wife but it may be part of the picture.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5263825-what-paloma-faith-said-about-foreplay?reply=141771231

"She was on a podcast and just said (to cut it short) foreplay starts with how you speak to your partner and how you treat them throughout the day"

Not listened but I think your summary I totally agree with. Also sometimes parenting more than one you can be ships in the night just getting through the day managing the kids. I then find it hard to come together just to have sex in the evening (when I’m also exhausted). I need connection in the day too

the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

This ‘unrelated topic’ is her trying to tell you what the problem is, but you’ve unilaterally decided that because it’s not about sex it doesn’t count.

Look at your words: controlling, torture, withholding, stonewalling (you leapt on that one from a sympathetic poster!), vanilla sex; and your actions: you refused to believe her when she said you hurt her breast to the point that she had to leave the room, you stropped off to the cinema to make her worry about you, you wanted to go to bed and be babied by her over a headache that you described as a migraine (newsflash: migraines are debilitating, not something you can cure with an aspirin!) during her only time to herself all day (her downtime) with no thought of who was looking after the kids. You also leapt at the suggestion by a poster that she had just married you to get her feet under the table and had more sex with you beforehand to lure you into it. That’s an incredibly misogynistic view.

You might consider yourself a nice guy. I don’t. I think you need to take a very hard look at yourself and stop reading manosphere shite about how women deliberately withhold sex to manipulate men.

I hate the term “withholding” in the context of sex.

You withhold food and water from a person, as they need food and water to survive, it’s a basic right.

No body can withhold sex or affection. You don’t have the right to anyone else’s body or emotions.

Exactly it centres it all around him and gives her no autonomy over whether she actually wants it - particularly given the fact he used the word vanilla

Abusers withhold sex and affection as part of their abuse. It's a way of maintaining power and control and is coercive. For example, if you do what they want they become affectionate or agree to sex.

It's so sad really , best he leaves her marriage between 2 people should not be like this , he got some freedom when he went out on his own , but this marriage not working, they could sell the house and get 2 small flats she and he deserve a happy life

But that’s different. I was in that situation myself. The difference was, he wasn’t withholding sex from me as I thought I was owed it. He was holding any sort of affection over me to try and make me behave certain ways. When our baby died, for example, the first thing he said was I could have a hug, “if I was good that day” (meaning, show no emotion and get the washing done and dinner on the table.

I didn’t have a right to that affection - I didn’t care at that point. It was something he made up in his own head.

I'm not suggesting that his wife is withholding as she's abusive. I am explaining that people do withold affection in abusive relationships.

I'm sorry about your baby💐

But again, you cannot “withhold”
something that doesn’t belong to someone else, sex, affection, emotions.

Abusers twist that to suit thier own fucked up narrative, but the title of this thread is about his wife withholding sex.

She’s not withholding anything - he has no right of access over her body or emotions.

As stated in my previous post, I'm not talking about the wife of the OP.

I am talking about abusers who withhold sex and affection in order to maintain power and control. Withhold means to hold back. To withhold or hold back affection or sex in order to control your partner, is a common tactic in abusive relationships.

How much downtime does your wife have.
You said she works part time & takes on the lion share of running the house.
if she’s tired and feels resentful that you are not doing more to help then she may not feel like or have the energy for intimacy.

Yes you misunderstood - someone else said about their spouse “giving” them sex and I was quoting them

So sex has been an utterly taboo topic of conversation for the entirety of the relationship, no matter how delicately you feel you bring up the subject to the point you feel she could have had some kind of traumatic experience in her past that is causing this...

it doesn't sound as though you've even been able to get a decent healthy sexual relationship off the ground in the first place.

How, if she's never been able to tell you what is pleasurable for her, and sex is a mutual exchange of pleasure, have you presumed this would work? Maybe you have just been throwing mud at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. What did you find so attractive about this woman that is shut down sexually, that you married her, had a couple of children, and expected to have regular fulfilling non vanilla sex with her? Maybe you presumed it would magically change for the better over time, or maybe you thought she would go into wife mode and run a regular service regardless.