Help - Sex and Touch being withheld

[HusbandAndDad44]

Dad here. 44yo. My wife of 13 years weaponises sex, and more recently, touch. She always has to some degree I guess but it has gotten unbearable. She’s aware I have a need for touch and have a high sex drive compared to her. She basically keeps it from me in a controlling way. She knows I need contact like occasional cuddles too.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to. My advances would be regularly and firmly blocked in no uncertain terms.

Since then things have gotten much worse, with certain acts being withheld indefinitely, and frequency diminishing more and more.
Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.
“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).

Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.
This lead to her storming out and preferring to sleep in another room rather than engage when I was trying to talk to her and express I feel she never has time for me.

Anyway, I was unusually angered at work today - just as much about the refusal to talk about it and the assumption she’s right (again), as about the no sex thing.
I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time.
It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.

What has my life become? I feel utterly unwanted and deeply unsatisfied and alone.
I still love her and find her very attractive but my awareness of all the other selfish sides of her and ignoring basically all my needs (I think deliberately) makes it like ongoing torture to want to continue on like this.
I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem, it strangely that there’s no problem, or the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

Help and advice needed please! In particular from a woman’s perspective, thanks

We are telling you from your own descriptions of your wife's behaviour that it is not consensual sex.

Perhaps your wife has communicated in the past about her issues but you have similarly decided to just not listen.

Does she do paid external work? If not, I presume you don't pay her for the childcare and housekeeping services (i.e. work) she provides? If she has a part-time job to fit around unpaid work, she probably works longer shifts than you e.g. 6 hour job + 6 hours childcare.

Money could also be an issue. E.g. sharing all your money, for each to spend freely - versus one partner having much less, or having to ask the other for money, and feeling infantilised.

@TomatoSandwiches
We are telling you from your own descriptions of your wife's behaviour that it is not consensual sex.
Perhaps your wife has communicated in the past about her issues but you have similarly decided to just not listen.

No you're saying that repeatedly, but that doesn't make it true.

when I would try to initiate I would always be unsuccessful (and obviously take things no further), and only when she initiated things is when we would do so

What that suggests to me is that sex is very hard for her. She can't face it without some mental preparation, so she can't spontaneously co-operate when you want sex. She needs to summon up the resolve to 'get it done' so that the pressure is off for a while. She initiates it when she has the strength and resolve to tackle it as a chore. She is doing what she can to accommodate you.

I expect you have pissed her off massively over the years and completely worn her down mentally and physically so that she just can't stand you any more.
I felt like that with my ex with his incessant sex pestering and lazy, uncaring and selfish behaviour. I was relieved when he left.

That seems balanced and fair.

when we do it seems to come with reluctance

And yet, knowing she’s reluctant (i.e. not enthusiastically consenting) you carry on.

cuddles do not relieve migraines - many people need to take to a dark room with medication to try and sleep off their migraines.

No but it can make you feel better, cared for.

Op i can't work out if you're pressuring her without realising. Do you ever get sulky or anything?

Why haven't you answered the questions about whether she works outside the home or not and also what you meant when you said I'm no saint?

Have you ever treated her badly, shouted at her, cheated, taken her for granted?

Hi OP I also think you’re getting a hard time on here so I thought I’d give you my perspective as a married 44 year old woman with 2 young kids.

My husband is the same as you in that physical touch is his love language. My love language is acts of service and gifts (materialistic I suppose!!).

We have sex fairly regularly but I know my DH would like it to be more. I would say I reluctantly have it as I feel I should but 9/10 I’d rather finish watching the episode of Love is Blind. The difference I suppose is that once we get into it, I do enjoy it, get into it and love the intimacy. But I do sort of have to cajole myself into it and this has got worse as I’ve hit my 40s.

We both work full time (you don’t mention whether your wife works I don’t think?). And I would also say he does 30% of the household chores but I would say less than 10% of the mental load. He ‘provides’ for his family but I do often find resentment building.

The mental load is something men regularly overlook. Who arranges all the doctors/dentist appointments for you kids? Who arranges any wrap around childcare? If school age, who arranges holiday clubs/play dates? Who trawls through the 30 emails a week from school to know when the Xmas concert is or when world book day is (and who arranges the costumes)?. Who buys the in laws presents/cards for Xmas and birthdays? Who does the admin for any booked holidays? Who arranges a plumber/tradesman if something goes wrong? I’m labouring the list to make a point but I would write more. My DH is guilty of just assuming this is all taken care of (and I’m guilty of not pulling him up on it!). The truth is, often whilst having sex in mentally making a shopping list or a mental note about the new school uniform I must remember to buy.

As my love language is acts of service/gifts I would LOVE my DH to turn up from work with flowers for no reason, or say to me that this term, he’s going to take care of all the school admin. And importantly, not continuously ask how something is done!! I’d love to be out with the kids and come home to find he’s hoovered, done the bathroom and ordered this weeks shop.

I don’t think I’ve ever been as attracted to my DH as when I found him in his boxers, covered in sweat having cleaned the kitchen from top to bottom and then doing the kids dinner. I could have jumped him there and then!

Men and women are wired differently sometimes and sex is often one of those times. Men want to be physically turned on but if a woman is pissed off or harbouring resentment about something then it doesn’t matter how attractive a man is or how erotic the foreplay is (I realise I’m making sweeping generalisations here)

Id also say that you’re trying to initiate it too often. It sounds like she is withholding intimacy/hugs etc as she’s worried you’ll see this as a green light for sex. Maybe take sex off the table for a month. Tell her you absolutely will not make any advances or initiate anything but you’d like to focus on other physical intimacy (handholding/hugs/cuddling on the sofa etc)

Sorry this was long but hope it helps

OP, I think it’s time you sat your wife down and told her what you said on here. Suggest couples therapy to her as I think this is the only way you can save this marriage.

If she won’t engage with this then you have the choice of divorce, an open marriage or carry on as you are - but that is the most toxic of all options.

Can You imagine being in this relationship as it is, 10 years from now? How does that make you feel? That should be the driving factor in speaking up to your wife.

i was your wife. In my case the lower libido kicked in after a traumatic birth followed by my child being unwell, and another child born just over a year later. I was exhausted and scared, I bore all the emotional load of my sons illness, attended all his appointments, and was also working part time.
if we did have a break out of the house intimacy happened but we had no family support so those breaks were few and far between.
It happened at other times too but it was never often enough and I felt a constant pressure.
I agree you should watch Jimmy on relationships. Don’t assume your wife is weaponising or deliberately withholding. Try couples counselling.

Better apart and living differant lives , best to get out and leave the misery pit , take all the money , sell the house get her move best way to go .

The incel has arrived!

I haven’t read the whole thread, just your responses. She sounds like I feel. So I’ll explain it in case it helps you.

I felt like everyone needed me, needed something from me. I spent all day preempting everyone else’s wants and needs. PE kit, food DH liked, food the kids liked, his shampoo, their toothpaste.
I was the family’s supplier of all things.

No one was proactively looking to see what I needed. No one watched to make sure I didn’t run out of coffee or chose cake that I’d enjoy too.

DH busily got on with important things, was useful around the house and with the kids. But he’d often redo or even undo something I’d done because he just never watched. He just did his stuff with no idea what I did. So I filled in around the edges, doing the stuff he didn’t. He could vacuum multiple times a week but hasn’t cleaned a bathroom in 35 years.
I was the gap filler, doing the stuff no one else thought to do.

DH would on occasion fancy sex and would start grabbing my bum. Or my boobs. Having not touched me or looked me in the eye all
week. he would hold me and squeeze me as an expression of his affection, or because he needed comfort.
I am not a comfort blanket. My body belongs to me.

I was not happy because all of life is arranged around other people’s needs.

We had sex, but he didn’t listen. He didn’t settle for a quickie when I could fancy a quickie. He didn’t pace himself according to how my body was responding. He didn’t start sensitively and move around until we found something I liked. He accidentally hurt me occasionally- and that’s a massive turn off. You can’t relax and get into it if you’re braced for unexpected injury. I kept trying , I tried to talk about it, but he tended not to hear. And the more you have sex you don’t want to have or don’t enjoy, the less you want until eventually you just don’t want any at all

I longed for decent sex where I was seen. Really seen.

In all areas of life, I wanted to be seen. I wanted someone to preempt what I needed. I wanted someone to work around me, to fill the gaps I left.

It would have been an easy fix. But he decided I didn’t like sex much and we just went without.

Do you see her and listen to her? Not doing the things you think she wants or needs, or you’re good at. Actually watching. Trying things out. Working out what might help her be happier.

How is she “withholding it”? It is not something that belongs to you. It isn’t a given.

For some people sex can be purely about the orgasm and pleasure. Other people need to feel connected, supported and valued to have sex. It isn’t just about finding someone attractive. Have you looked at what you can do? Your post is very much about your wife “withholding” and punishing you.

@pinkyredrose
No but it can make you feel better, cared for.
Op i can't work out if you're pressuring her without realising. Do you ever get sulky or anything?
Why haven't you answered the questions about whether she works outside the home or not and also what you meant when you said I'm no saint?
Have you ever treated her badly, shouted at her, cheated, taken her for granted?

Treat badly: No
Shouted: we do both shout occasionally and I hate it
Cheated: No
Taken for granted: leaning towards a maybe/yes here, a little bit perhaps
I'm no saint: just that I'm not claiming to be perfect or anything. Nothing big if that's what you mean
She works part time
And yes a hug can go a long way to make me feel better. I carry a lot of weight too at times, I'm a responsible adult

It’s interesting that you don’t mention here that your wife works part time. How part time? In addition to the large majority of housework and childcare?

Would she say you were pulling your weight? Is this a conversation you’ve had (separate to sex, or the lack thereof)?

Op would she consider couples counselling? If she's feeling taken for granted she's likely to be holding onto resentment and that is guaranteed to kill one's libido. A counsellor could help you both unpick your feelings and understand each other better.

@EarringsandLipstick
It is in the context that his DW won't discuss it, explain, look for a solution etc - which are all cornerstones of respect, which is what a healthy, loving marriage should have.
It's not 'not having sex' - it's withholding it (she is) and refusing to acknowledge that, discuss it or make a decision (e.g. if she doesn't want sex with him - her right - she does have a responsibility to consider what that means for the marriage, and take ownership e.g. end the marriage / seek counselling or whatever course of action seems reasonable).
Expecting someone to just accept that you have withdrawn from all physical contact, with no forum for the OP to be heard, is horrible.

Thank you so much for this post. It explains really well what I've been struggling to describe, and frankly the "withholding" word - just the use of it - has been jumped upon by many in here to prove that I'm really mean and only think of myself and my pleasure.

It's not the case at all, and you've captured that so well in these words, thank you

The main thing I was trying to cover in my post was the withholding of physical touch first and foremost.
As one post said I think it might be stonewalling

@pinkyredrose Op would she consider couples counselling? If she's feeling taken for granted she's likely to be holding onto resentment and that is guaranteed to kill one's libido. A counsellor could help you both unpick your feelings and understand each other better.

A lot of people are suggesting this, so I think I will try to raise the possibility again. Anyone have any advice on how to convince it's for the best?

this is such a sad read. I hope the OP reads it and reads it again. His wife getting cross and leaving when he grabbed her boob I think is a clue as to how she may be feeling (similar to your experience)

How old are your children? As she works part time, and is doing 70-75% of the household chores (possibly plus mental load), she could just be bloody exhausted. If your children are young she’ll be spending the majority of her time taking care of others, and could also be ‘touched out’. Do you ever sulk when she’s not in the mood? Is it possible she’s feeling slightly taken for granted, if you’re aware that you might be doing this a little? It would definitely dampen down any desire if that’s the case.

And yes a hug can go a long way to make me feel better.
What makes her feel better? She might be more open to offering what works for you, if you can do the same for her. That could look very different to what you’d expect; while you’d like hugs, she might want a bit of time to herself, or a bunch of flowers, or for you to watch her favourite show with her, or to go out with a friend. Could you talk about that with her - more from an angle of wanting to help her, rather than focusing on what you need/want?

You work full time, she works part time and does more of the housework/childcare (and I'll guess almost all the mental load stuff).
What's the balance of free time?

Tell her that you love her and appreciate her but that you're feeling invisible within your marriage, as though you're two separate beings in the same house.

You want more than anything for the marriage to last forever but you can't go much longer without being heard.

Ask her for the sake of your marriage would she please consider counselling with you, you've got strong foundations, you're parents and you owe it to yourselves, to each other and to your child/ren to build on your foundations to create a loving and secure future.

I will probably get flamed here but I dislike these posts from men wanting advice from women. I feel like it's not in good faith. Does your wife use MN? Have you been here for a while or have you just come on a mainly woman's forum to get advice?

Male anger is really intimidating and unpleasant. If you are sulking (and going off without telling her where you are to act out is not nice) then it's coercive. Either she suffers your anger or has sex?

I get you are unhappy but so is your wife.

She's not having sex because she's not happy either.

Being touched out and exhausted by young kids and household stuff and work and then having an angry and sulky husband is horrendous. Wouldn't make me want to drop my pants either.

Leave her alone. Pull your weight. Try and listen to her. Go to counselling on your own if necessary... But don't pester her. It's vile.

In fact, maybe you should give each other space and separate for a bit then try dating again to see if you can get things back on track.