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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help - Sex and Touch being withheld

238 replies

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 09:08

Dad here. 44yo. My wife of 13 years weaponises sex, and more recently, touch. She always has to some degree I guess but it has gotten unbearable. She’s aware I have a need for touch and have a high sex drive compared to her. She basically keeps it from me in a controlling way. She knows I need contact like occasional cuddles too.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to. My advances would be regularly and firmly blocked in no uncertain terms.

Since then things have gotten much worse, with certain acts being withheld indefinitely, and frequency diminishing more and more.
Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.
“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).

Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.
This lead to her storming out and preferring to sleep in another room rather than engage when I was trying to talk to her and express I feel she never has time for me.

Anyway, I was unusually angered at work today - just as much about the refusal to talk about it and the assumption she’s right (again), as about the no sex thing.
I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time.
It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.

What has my life become? I feel utterly unwanted and deeply unsatisfied and alone.
I still love her and find her very attractive but my awareness of all the other selfish sides of her and ignoring basically all my needs (I think deliberately) makes it like ongoing torture to want to continue on like this.
I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem, it strangely that there’s no problem, or the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

Help and advice needed please! In particular from a woman’s perspective, thanks

OP posts:
Mumptynumpty · 12/08/2025 20:59

I get the sense that nothing anyone is saying has landed. Everything is refuted with long messages.

I feel for your poor wife if she is enduring long winded lectures or sex sessions when there is a lack of willingness to truly understand what being married to you is like.

I speak from experience as per my previous text. Your wife is having non consensual sex with you to stop the nagging, touching, demands (verbalised or otherwise). That is not consensual. Posters are explaining to you that coerced sex can be rape. Because you say it isn't doesn't make it not rape.

Why come onto a fundamentally women's opinion site and refute, ignore or contradict everything said. I would suggest this is also your wife's experience of you. Exhausting.

Agapornis · 12/08/2025 21:01

When does she get any free time to herself? Don't make the mistake of underestimating how many hours of paid and unpaid work she puts in.

Again, I'd strongly suggest filling in that questionnaire to find out how much unpaid work you both actually do. Or use the Fair Play cards, or at least read up on what the mental load is.

Here it is again.
https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar---fillistning/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar---fillistning/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:06

@Agapornis When does she get any free time to herself? Don't make the mistake of underestimating how many hours of paid and unpaid work she puts in.
Again, I'd strongly suggest filling in that questionnaire to find out how much unpaid work you both actually do. Or use the Fair Play cards, or at least read up on what the mental load is.
Here it is again.
https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar---fillistning/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

I saw this earlier and have it open, planning to fill it in when I can

https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar---fillistning/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

OP posts:
HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:13

@Mumptynumpty I get the sense that nothing anyone is saying has landed. Everything is refuted with long messages.
I feel for your poor wife if she is enduring long winded lectures or sex sessions when there is a lack of willingness to truly understand what being married to you is like.
I speak from experience as per my previous text. Your wife is having non consensual sex with you to stop the nagging, touching, demands (verbalised or otherwise). That is not consensual. Posters are explaining to you that coerced sex can be rape. Because you say it isn't doesn't make it not rape.
Why come onto a fundamentally women's opinion site and refute, ignore or contradict everything said. I would suggest this is also your wife's experience of you. Exhausting.

In what way am I refuting everything? Refute, ignore and contradict - where? I'm taking on as much as I can. I'm replying and liking posts when helpful.
I agree with some things, not with others, and I'm willing to think on the stuff I'm not sure about.

Yes ok coerced sex can be rape, I get that but it's 100% not what's happening here. Not now, not before, not even close. Where is the coersion coming from here?
"Because I say it isn't doesn't make it not rape" What? You must know my situation better than I do then?

OP posts:
myplace · 12/08/2025 21:21

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:13

@Mumptynumpty I get the sense that nothing anyone is saying has landed. Everything is refuted with long messages.
I feel for your poor wife if she is enduring long winded lectures or sex sessions when there is a lack of willingness to truly understand what being married to you is like.
I speak from experience as per my previous text. Your wife is having non consensual sex with you to stop the nagging, touching, demands (verbalised or otherwise). That is not consensual. Posters are explaining to you that coerced sex can be rape. Because you say it isn't doesn't make it not rape.
Why come onto a fundamentally women's opinion site and refute, ignore or contradict everything said. I would suggest this is also your wife's experience of you. Exhausting.

In what way am I refuting everything? Refute, ignore and contradict - where? I'm taking on as much as I can. I'm replying and liking posts when helpful.
I agree with some things, not with others, and I'm willing to think on the stuff I'm not sure about.

Yes ok coerced sex can be rape, I get that but it's 100% not what's happening here. Not now, not before, not even close. Where is the coersion coming from here?
"Because I say it isn't doesn't make it not rape" What? You must know my situation better than I do then?

No, they are saying that you don’t feel it’s rape because in your head, rape is something other people do, horrible losers who brutalise women.

You love and cherish your wife. You desire her, you provide for her. You’re a good dad. You don’t have sex with her when she really doesn’t want to.

It’s just that sometimes you hope she’ll get into it in a minute. If you can stroke the right way, or murmur the right words. And sometimes she does.

From her point of view, she might be mentally keeping track of how long it’s been. Thinking that tonight isn’t great but it’s been a while and tomorrow may be worse. Get it done, buy yourself some time because it’s your period next week and it’s already been a while. She’s effectively coercing herself.

Women here are saying that isn’t enthusiasm. That’s not consent. That’s- at best- maintenance sex.

If your wife read this thread, what do you think she’d say? Would she feel everyone has been really unsympathetic and has got it totally wrong?

Would she be surprised by what you are saying?

mintydoggyv · 12/08/2025 21:24

This is an unhappy marriage, l should get out while one can leave her to it

Gloriia · 12/08/2025 21:25

'I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time. It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.'

The fact that you had numerous texts and missed calls proves she cares. If she didn't she wouldn't have bothered.

She is doing what a lot of people do in long term relationships, she is taking you for granted and being complacent.

I wouldn't bother with counselling it'll be a waste of time in situations like this just maybe be a bit more aloof, stop perhaps trying so hard and let her make an effort. Good luck.

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:25

@myplace No, they are saying that you don’t feel it’s rape because in your head, rape is something other people do, horrible losers who brutalise women.
You love and cherish your wife. You desire her, you provide for her. You’re a good dad. You don’t have sex with her when she really doesn’t want to.
It’s just that sometimes you hope she’ll get into it in a minute. If you can stroke the right way, or murmur the right words. And sometimes she does.
From her point of view, she might be mentally keeping track of how long it’s been. Thinking that tonight isn’t great but it’s been a while and tomorrow may be worse. Get it done, buy yourself some time because it’s your period next week and it’s already been a while. She’s effectively coercing herself.
Women here are saying that isn’t enthusiasm. That’s not consent. That’s- at best- maintenance sex.
If your wife read this thread, what do you think she’d say? Would she feel everyone has been really unsympathetic and has got it totally wrong?

Would she be surprised by what you are saying?

You can twist words from others all you like but these aren't the things that are really happening.
Yes, if she read this she would be shocked at any question of consent and any notion of rape.
I'm becoming a bit repulsed myself by how this thread is turning out, and turning me into a criminal quite frankly.

OP posts:
Gloriia · 12/08/2025 21:26

mintydoggyv · 12/08/2025 21:24

This is an unhappy marriage, l should get out while one can leave her to it

Yes or this.

Gloriia · 12/08/2025 21:27

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:25

@myplace No, they are saying that you don’t feel it’s rape because in your head, rape is something other people do, horrible losers who brutalise women.
You love and cherish your wife. You desire her, you provide for her. You’re a good dad. You don’t have sex with her when she really doesn’t want to.
It’s just that sometimes you hope she’ll get into it in a minute. If you can stroke the right way, or murmur the right words. And sometimes she does.
From her point of view, she might be mentally keeping track of how long it’s been. Thinking that tonight isn’t great but it’s been a while and tomorrow may be worse. Get it done, buy yourself some time because it’s your period next week and it’s already been a while. She’s effectively coercing herself.
Women here are saying that isn’t enthusiasm. That’s not consent. That’s- at best- maintenance sex.
If your wife read this thread, what do you think she’d say? Would she feel everyone has been really unsympathetic and has got it totally wrong?

Would she be surprised by what you are saying?

You can twist words from others all you like but these aren't the things that are really happening.
Yes, if she read this she would be shocked at any question of consent and any notion of rape.
I'm becoming a bit repulsed myself by how this thread is turning out, and turning me into a criminal quite frankly.

Edited

Totally agree. Unenthusiastic sex is not rape, she is consenting even if it's a sporadic event.

Twattergy · 12/08/2025 21:28

OP you asked for advice on how to broach counselling (which i believe would be a good step). Whatever you do, do NOT present your sex life as being the reason you'd want to do couple's counselling. Take it from me, if your wife is open to the idea of strengthening your marriage she will not want that done through the lens of sex. That just feels like more pressure on her and suggests that its the main issue you want addressed. You dont have a sex problem, you have a communication and relational problem that manifests in many waya, one of which is sex and touch. Her distance from you does not stem from sex, it will be about something else. It just manifests itself through her emotional distance from you and inability to address that with you. Stop seeing it as withholding sex. See it as you both creating a dynamic that your are BOTH responsible for, one outcome of which is her not wishing to have physical contact with you. She will have many many reasons as to why she is behaving in this way. Strangers on the Internet can not tell you why. But a non judgemental space where the focus is on how to create more happiness and better communication between the two of you might do. If you say to her 'clearly we are both not happy...I think we need to take joint action so we can both feel happier and work more as a team' this is an open invitation to explore therapy together. Do not mention sex. In early sessions (should you get that far) do not present lack of sex as the main issue. Sorry to say this but men are extremely slow on the uptake to understand that for women, sex starts in the mind. In established relationships our mental state deeply affects our ability to sexually relate to our partners. If you can demonstrate your are deeply invested in your wife's happiness, completely unrelated to sex...that's when the good stuff can begin.

Twattergy · 12/08/2025 21:31

Deleting duplicate

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:33

@Twattergy great post, thank you. I will take this fully on board.
Bookmarking/saving that for later.

OP posts:
mintydoggyv · 12/08/2025 21:33

Gloriia · 12/08/2025 21:27

Totally agree. Unenthusiastic sex is not rape, she is consenting even if it's a sporadic event.

It's not fair to her or him to suffer like this , would anyone want to be in an unhappy relationship, unless councilling would help l can't see it , cut ties l can't see either being happy one should not stay to gether like this it will hurt both partners

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/08/2025 21:38

Gloriia · 12/08/2025 21:27

Totally agree. Unenthusiastic sex is not rape, she is consenting even if it's a sporadic event.

It depends why she's having sex. If it's because her life would be difficult if she didn't or she feels badgered into it, then it's coerced. Sex should be freely consensual.

ColinVsCuthbert · 12/08/2025 21:41

Frankly the boob/nipple thing gets me too sometimes. My DH will do it, and sometimes its good, other times I have massive PTSD flashbacks to being pregnant, pumping, and it makes me feel like i'm a cow being milked, which is obviously a massive turn off. It usually happens when i'm feeling hormonal and fat tbh. It's ok to need touch, it is very important to some people. If you are usually both into something and now she isn't, talk about it.

myplace · 12/08/2025 21:42

HusbandAndDad44 · 12/08/2025 21:25

@myplace No, they are saying that you don’t feel it’s rape because in your head, rape is something other people do, horrible losers who brutalise women.
You love and cherish your wife. You desire her, you provide for her. You’re a good dad. You don’t have sex with her when she really doesn’t want to.
It’s just that sometimes you hope she’ll get into it in a minute. If you can stroke the right way, or murmur the right words. And sometimes she does.
From her point of view, she might be mentally keeping track of how long it’s been. Thinking that tonight isn’t great but it’s been a while and tomorrow may be worse. Get it done, buy yourself some time because it’s your period next week and it’s already been a while. She’s effectively coercing herself.
Women here are saying that isn’t enthusiasm. That’s not consent. That’s- at best- maintenance sex.
If your wife read this thread, what do you think she’d say? Would she feel everyone has been really unsympathetic and has got it totally wrong?

Would she be surprised by what you are saying?

You can twist words from others all you like but these aren't the things that are really happening.
Yes, if she read this she would be shocked at any question of consent and any notion of rape.
I'm becoming a bit repulsed myself by how this thread is turning out, and turning me into a criminal quite frankly.

Edited

So that’s great then. This isn’t your situation, so you don’t need to consider it.

That’s the situation that it could be, from our PoV, but we aren’t there. You are.

But something isn’t working and you think the ‘something’ is that she’s weaponised and withholding sex.

Is she like that? Is she manipulative?
Or is she unhappy?

We sort of leapt in to assume she’s unhappy and explain to you how and why that might be. But maybe you’re right and she’s happy, and manipulatively withholding sex. If she’s not very nice and behaves like that, I’m surprised you want to stay married.

Louiestopit · 12/08/2025 21:44

Maybe you are just really shit at sex and she put up with it for ages, now she can’t be arsed.

Neevo · 12/08/2025 21:47

Just my experience, the only touch I was getting at the time was sexual and I’d had enough of being treated like an object.
I love having my feet rubbed and my hair brushed and yet this was never ever done. Boring apparently, and yet I was expected to engage in touch I wasnt always into? Called a prude.

find meaningful touch without sex which doesn’t burden her. The cuddling to sleep thing is a huge burden, what if she hates it?
rub her shoulders, hands, head and completely take sex off the table.

CunningPlanMaster · 12/08/2025 21:52

Just to say, posting as your wife in my marriage that I think @Twattergy’s suggestion is a good one. I wouldn’t even bring sex into it at this point. Take if off the table entirely. I would be really surprised and pleased if my DH took this approach

You've mentioned your love language a lot-do you know what your wife’s is (clearly not touch!)

Tofudinosaur · 12/08/2025 21:59

My best friend had a very long marriage that ended up in divorce partly due to lack of sex being blamed on her by husband and her feeling like he didn’t listen to her at all. But when I talked about it with her the fact was over years he’d been rough with her. He’d wanted ‘none vanilla sex’ sessions that left her hurt and upset as much as she’d tried. Every time she raised issues he’d minimise it. Bit by bit she’s been withdrawing sex and affection over years without intention but totally shutting down to him in retrospect. She told me she couldn’t even orgasm at all for years - sex became a battle ground even when he didn’t hurt her she feared he would and wasn’t at all relaxed. And she came to think of herself as almost no sex drive. But when they split and she found someone else she realised how much those none vanilla sex sessions had messed with her head.
If your wife says you hurt her nipple believe her! And be aware the none vanilla sex might have totally not been for her - and worst case hurt her.

Louiestopit · 12/08/2025 22:08

Out of interest, do you watch a lot of porn?

My husband could have written your post. But he watched so much porn that I don’t think he knows what real sex is.

He grabs my boobs thinking I will magically have an orgasm. In the early days, I thought I could change him teach him. Now, I can’t be bothered with him. There’s fuck all in it for me. It’s just painful and shit.

Screamingabdabz · 12/08/2025 22:13

Louiestopit · 12/08/2025 21:44

Maybe you are just really shit at sex and she put up with it for ages, now she can’t be arsed.

😂 this is what makes me laugh about all the earnest cool girl responses weeping for the poor lonely sexless op… and therapy suggestions ffs 🙄

I suspect the reason she bats him away and will capitulate for 10 mins only is very simple. It’s just shit and not worth it.

Louiestopit · 12/08/2025 22:21

Screamingabdabz · 12/08/2025 22:13

😂 this is what makes me laugh about all the earnest cool girl responses weeping for the poor lonely sexless op… and therapy suggestions ffs 🙄

I suspect the reason she bats him away and will capitulate for 10 mins only is very simple. It’s just shit and not worth it.

Yeah, I mean I am just massively projecting. But I’m now mid 40s and I’ve had years of shit, sometimes painful sex and now I’m like OPs wife. You try telling them, you tell them “that’s painful” and they still make it your problem.

Shes probably just thought, fuck this shit and who can blame her?

Megifer · 12/08/2025 22:29

From your op - "or “no not here” or “not like that”"

Where was the here in "not here" and the that in "not like that"?