Help - Sex and Touch being withheld

[HusbandAndDad44]

Dad here. 44yo. My wife of 13 years weaponises sex, and more recently, touch. She always has to some degree I guess but it has gotten unbearable. She’s aware I have a need for touch and have a high sex drive compared to her. She basically keeps it from me in a controlling way. She knows I need contact like occasional cuddles too.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to. My advances would be regularly and firmly blocked in no uncertain terms.

Since then things have gotten much worse, with certain acts being withheld indefinitely, and frequency diminishing more and more.
Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.
“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).

Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.
This lead to her storming out and preferring to sleep in another room rather than engage when I was trying to talk to her and express I feel she never has time for me.

Anyway, I was unusually angered at work today - just as much about the refusal to talk about it and the assumption she’s right (again), as about the no sex thing.
I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time.
It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.

What has my life become? I feel utterly unwanted and deeply unsatisfied and alone.
I still love her and find her very attractive but my awareness of all the other selfish sides of her and ignoring basically all my needs (I think deliberately) makes it like ongoing torture to want to continue on like this.
I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem, it strangely that there’s no problem, or the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

Help and advice needed please! In particular from a woman’s perspective, thanks

Man's perspective. My situation is similar to yours, though not identical. The only things I can suggest are, firstly, a laser-sharp focus on the things that you can change and, secondly, being mentally prepared to end the marriage.

Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.

“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

I'm going to introduce you to a concept, it's called 'enthusiastic consent'. When someone wants to have sex with you, you know. They are enjoying what's happening and vigorously participating.

What you describe above is not enthusiastic consent, it's someone doing the absolute bare minimum to keep you quiet. Your wife doesn't want to have sex with you. She wants to get the act over with as quickly as possible and she's not participating ie she's lying there and thinking of England.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to.

This is disturbing. You seem to be suggesting that your wife should have sex if she doesn't want to. Your wife isn't a sperm receptacle, she's not on earth to service you.

I have no idea why you are continuing to have sex with someone who doesn't want to. Your wife has no desire to have sex with you and this is clear from the way she shows absolutely no sexual desire towards you.

I would either accept a sexless relationship or leave.

Your wife is not a sex robot who is designed to meet your needs.

You should be a partnership and a team and you clearly aren’t because and here it is

YOU have weaponised sex. It is as simple as that. You consider your needs and wants to be above hers without recognising what she wants

because in all areas of life the one who doesn’t want something wins.

work out why she doesn’t want it - look at how unbelievably unromantic you are being and how your behaviour would make most woman not want it and work out if you can save it

and if you can’t walk away

Blimey! Bit harsh, @Tiswa

You want more sex and she doesn’t. She doesn’t want to discuss this and you do.

Sounds like it’s a deal breaker to me and that’s OK. Clearly there’s lots going on here but if the pair of you can’t communicate for whatever reason then I think it’s better to split up. You could of course try marriage counselling but I suspect your wife would be reluctant.

She has checked out so I’m not sure why one of you hasn’t started divorce proceedings already.

Well yeah but if it gets him to take his head out of his arse it would be worth it. There is no point pandering to him he either needs to do that or break up

A lot comes down to communication. She doesn't sound happy, or open to talking about it. It seems so sad that she's just shutting you out
.Couples therapy?

OP I hear your frustration loud and clear. Buggering off for hours without telling her would of caused her to panic and worry about where you were! Not the best way to address the frustration you have. It sounds like communication in this area has broken down completely.
Try looking at Jimmy on Relationships on youtube - he talks about this a lot, especially with the bedroom. His videos on different types of intimacy and desire are helpful too.
And from my perspective, my ex H used to play and tweak my nipples A LOT to try and initiate sex. There had been no nice-ness from him throughout the day - no telling me I looked nice, no help with the kids, no help with housework, but then he expected me to want him sexually when I just wanted to go to sleep as I was shattered. This was my life, until enough was enough.

Whatever you are doing to address it isn't working. You need to think of things from your wifes perspective, and openly listen to her. And ask for her to do the same.

How is the rest of your marriage? Is she a good partner? Emotionally supportive? Kind? Interesting? Intelligent? Funny? Hard working? You mention nothing about any other characteristic. It seems from this post your ONLY interest in her is sexual and I can wholly understand why she doesn’t want to have sex with you. Perhaps try making her feel valued as a PERSON not a sex object.

I never understand why there is an attack on men for daring to speak about the lack of intimacy in a relationship. I'm a woman who is separated and lack of intimacy broke me down when I was with my exH. He never wanted to touch me and over time every element of my self esteem and sense of self was eroded into nothing.

OP @HusbandAndDad44 when your partner is refusing to listen to you, acknowledge you or fights about everything else to distract from the issue you are trying to raise, REGARDLESS of what that issue may be - it's called stone walling and the latter part is actually a form of gaslighting.

If you were a woman that's what everyone would say.

You may be lacking in other areas of your relationship, but your wife should be telling you this if that is contributing to the lack of intimacy. That is fair communication.

Ask for therapy.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to.

Nobody should be expected to have sex when they don't have the desire to. If the infrequency of her desiring sex is a deal breaker for you, then you will need to end the relationship. Tbh it sounds as if her feelings about the mismatch in libido (and possibly your approach to it) have put her off having a physical relationship with you at all. It seems unlikely that this is fixable tbh.

How does he do that when she refuses to engage in any form of conversation?

Which part of his post indicates that he has weaponised sex or uses her as a sex robot? Is a man wanting an active sex life weaponising sex? In which way? You state he is putting his needs and wants above hers? Where is the acknowledgement that she is doing the same?

How do you expect him to ‘work out why she doesn’t want it’ when she won’t engage in discussion with him? How do you expect him to give her sex in the way she wants when she shouts at him and storms out when he tries?

You are putting this entirely on him instead of both of them? Is it also not on her to just walk away if she can’t work with her husband to establish a marriage that both parties are happy in?

is she not treating him like an unemotional robot who should have no sexual feelings unless she demands it?

The fact you repeatedly mention that sex is on her terms and only when she wants it as though that’s unreasonable is disturbing

twiddling her nipples didn’t turn her on? What is the division of labour in your house? How many cuddles don’t lead to you trying for sex?

being in a sexless relationship can be soul destroying, especially if the other person won’t seek help. I’ve been there and got the t shirt. You either come to terms with never having sex or you leave. That’s your two options.

Sex isnt something you have a right to.

She's not 'withholding' it. She just doesn't want it. With you.

You have no right to expect someone who doesn't want to have sex with you to have sex with you just because you want it. Frankly, the way you speak about this disgusts me. You have no right to your wife's body.

If you dont wish to remain with someone who has no desire to have sex with you, begin the divorce.

I really dislike it when men describe the 'need' for sex. Nobody has a need for it, you're not going to die if you don't get it, it is a desire, not a need.

she's gone off you, its harsh but its a simple as that im afraid. I know because as a woman ive been there.
My desire soon returned after we split and a new man came on the scene.

Urgh. Not wanting sex isn’t “withholding” it or using it as a weapon. It’s not a reward, not like a teenagers pocket money which can be granted or withheld dependent upon good behaviour. You are not entitled to her body.

you are entitled to set your own boundaries and leave a relationship for any reason at all. If you are unhappy, and you cannot resolve issues as a couple (which based upon your description of lack of communication you can’t) leave.

I have a high sex drive, and having been in a relationship whereby mix matched sex drives left me feeling unfulfilled and insecure, I left. I understand how it feels to want and not be wanted, but to equate someone’s body to a weapon for the crime of not spreading her legs to you, or letting you touch it enough, is grim op.

What do you do to make yourself attractive?

Going missing and worrying her for 5+ hours, and presumably leaving her to cover the childcare, will make you even less attractive.

As @QueenBakingBee says - are you nice to her when you don't want sex? Do you look after your kids without prompting or help? What about housework? Do you only offer PIV sex that only gratifies you?

You should get yourself over to the Sexless Marriage Support Thread (started by a woman) and give that message to the many unhappy women on that thread.

This sounds very difficult. Do you have children? Do you pull your weight around the house? Your wife may feel tired and resentful. Although I’m not sure why she won’t communicate about the situation.

Learn about consent

It’s pretty much accepted by marital counsellors that resentment over other issues like fairness of domestic labour and childcare has a significant bearing on emotional connection and therefore sex. And yes, the last two are linked.

I would say the same to a woman who uses that term too, but in my experience, it is men that use that term far more than women do.

Completely agree. I get that there’s two sides to every story but from what he’s shared I think some are being overly harsh and wouldn’t respond the same way to a woman with the same issue.

it's the lack of communication that is the worst.

Do you have children, I have 2 very young boys, one still breastfeeding. I am also still on medication for PPD and have no cycles. Honestly I am exhausted and do not want to have sex. But my husband knows that is why, and is not that I am not attracted to him.

Intimacy is important it doesn't have to be sex but feeling close is