Help - Sex and Touch being withheld

[HusbandAndDad44]

Dad here. 44yo. My wife of 13 years weaponises sex, and more recently, touch. She always has to some degree I guess but it has gotten unbearable. She’s aware I have a need for touch and have a high sex drive compared to her. She basically keeps it from me in a controlling way. She knows I need contact like occasional cuddles too.

To start with (before marriage) we had more frequent sex and straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to. My advances would be regularly and firmly blocked in no uncertain terms.

Since then things have gotten much worse, with certain acts being withheld indefinitely, and frequency diminishing more and more.
Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less - only when she chooses, and when we do it seems to come with reluctance, and ‘conditions’ attached.
“Let’s be quick” or “we have a 10minute window” or “no not here” or “not like that”

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).

Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.
This lead to her storming out and preferring to sleep in another room rather than engage when I was trying to talk to her and express I feel she never has time for me.

Anyway, I was unusually angered at work today - just as much about the refusal to talk about it and the assumption she’s right (again), as about the no sex thing.
I decided not to go straight home after work for a change, opting to go for a meal by myself and then an evening showing at the cinema after and thought to myself I won’t talk to her during this time.
It’s now 10:30pm and I’ve had 6 texts and 20 missed calls.

What has my life become? I feel utterly unwanted and deeply unsatisfied and alone.
I still love her and find her very attractive but my awareness of all the other selfish sides of her and ignoring basically all my needs (I think deliberately) makes it like ongoing torture to want to continue on like this.
I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem, it strangely that there’s no problem, or the issue is deflected and an argument about an unrelated topic begins.

Help and advice needed please! In particular from a woman’s perspective, thanks

I agree with the effort thing.

When I met my partner I didn't feel good about myself, but over the last few years he has built me up with language. He looks at me deeply and tells me how beautiful I am, that he loves my body (I hate it) and that he adores me. It makes me want to get jiggy with him.

This is ridiculous. She's entitled not to have, or want, sex, of course. But it is unfair and disrespectful to not discuss the situation with your partner, the person you are supposed to love and value. It's complete nonsense to blame the OP due to 'icks' you identify - even if this is the truth for OP's wife, it is reasonable to expect openness and honesty in a relationship, including discussing why she is not interested in having sex, and what she proposes to do about it.

I feel the same as you Op. I am the female though. DH and I have had sex 4 times this year - all started by me - all lasting 10 minutes. It's very frustrating. I would love to have sex about 4 times a week, not 4 fucking times in 8 months.

The thing is with Mumsnet, I know from posting about my situation, that there are thousands of women on here that are exactly like your wife. So you'll be called a perv, a creep, you'll be told that no one is owed sex, you'll be told to do more housework, bla bla bla.

Personally, I want my DH to want me, just as I am. I don't want to have to jump through a million hoops, run myself ragged doing tasks, that I think might get me some sex, in the vague, and unpromised hope, that on some random evening when all the stars and planets align, that he might (only might) decide that today is the right day for sex. And after that I'll feel as though that "job" has been ticked off his list for another month.

I want him to want to jump my bones, without me having to go into Oliver Twist mode and ask for some more.

The only thing I will say, is that my DH is generally burnt out from work, and he does say the right things - and when he is on annual leave, he does make an effort.

And if this is the case, his wife can say so - from the OP, it appears she completely refuses to talk.

You haven’t mentioned the dynamic in your household, so I don’t know if what I’m about to say will apply or help at all but…
I have a high sex drive (woman). I still do not want to shag DH at all when he hasn’t pulled his weight around the house, helped with the kids or taken any other interest in me in general, such as simple conversation. He (good looking bloke) actively becomes unattractive to me in those instances. Thankfully we’re pretty good at communicating and we’ve been able to fix those issues.
If it’s not that, and you really do your bit to help out and show her affection (other than physical), and she really won’t talk about it, then it is something I’d consider leaving over. Not even particularly over the lack of sex, but the lack of communication.

Strange how she seemed to go off it after they got married, goal achieved perhaps? If she didn’t find the OP sexually attractive she had no business pretending to in order to get him up the aisle. And refusing to discuss it is a deal breaker in my view.

As usual on Mumsnet double standards are applied. Man goes off sex he needs dragging to the GP and tested/put on testosterone etc. Woman goes off it and it’s entirely her choice and he’s a misogynist pervert for expecting it. No wonder so many men shy away from commitment these days.

@Shadow1986 I get that - also I would say to the OP -are there any resentments that are in the mix?? Does she maybe know stuff you would rather she didn’t ? Because if that’s the case that interest doesn’t just magically come back once trust is tested - I was fine for 20 years, found out my H had an emotional affair 10 years into our marriage ( found out 9 years after it had stopped) saw all the stuff he wrote about it, found it stuffed away, at same time found out he had a chronic porn habit ( like 5 times a week) my sexual interest combined with the fact I was menopausal just switched off totally - I care about him, I don’t hate him, but just suddenly was no longer interested in ‘that’ way - also made me think about other stuff, how I domesticated he was, how all decisions ended up being his choices etc, etc - sexual interest in women is a funny thing - and if our brain isn’t up for it for whatever illogical reason then usually the rest of us isn’t either -where as with ’ many ‘ men ( not all) they seem able to just be interested regardless of the overall state of the marriage unless there is an underlying physical reason . In my experience when men go off it it’s usually due to physical health , medication, porn or getting it elsewhere or to be frank they’ve ’checked out and lost interest ’ in terms of physical interest and the wife doesn’t interest them anymore in that way. Other aspects are secondary.

I don't know both sides of this but they say foreplay for a woman starts in the morning. Are you doing your share of everything and making her feel loved and supported?
Also, sometimes we've got to be on the right frame of mind for the boobs to be played with...I used to hate being fumbled with. Also I limited affection because it always has to lead to sex so it was easier to get the barriers up. Sometimes affection without sex builds the connection without pressure.

Not working ,put all your money away safely , cut what money you give her for pleasure and prepare for divorce and somewhere you can live and go out without taking her as well get some peace in your mind , don't take her our either

She doesn't want to have sex with you. What you do with that information is up to you - but the thing you should NOT be doing is trying to persuade her into having more sex she doesn't want.

Would i be right in guessing that you can't just "cuddle"? There's always a grope involved?

@womanwithissues "But also men often lack insight into things that drive women's desire for sex."

I've been reflecting on this and I'm sure there are as many reasons as there are women. But: the dreaded 'familiarity'. My wife has more or less said she's always struggled with sex within committed relationships. She's had plenty of sexual partners, and I think it's only really short-term that turns her on which means that I, her husband, am carrying a severe handicap.

That was my ex husband. Made me shudder

Personally I’d divorce her. Especially if you’re having dinner and a date night all to yourself.

Threads like these make me so relieved to be single. I can't imagine sharing a house with someone who doesn't care about my feelings (perhaps doesn't even see me as a human being with needs), just pesters me for sex and plays the victim when he doesn't get it.

This is so far from normal, I just don't know where to start. You stopped wanting sex at 42? FORTY TWO????

I'm 55 (female) and have no dip in desire. And if I did, I would be straight down to the GP, because sex is wonderful, and no one who wants it, should live without it.

Sex IS a need when you have a healthy libido. Without it, I feel low, unattractive, moody, and I actually get tearful, if I see a sex scene on TV. It affects my well being massively. So for me yes, I do need it, to be happy and healthy.

I feel like people who have no libido, just shout at people with a high libido a list of bingo phrases :

"No one is owed sex"
"Sex is not a need"
"You sound like a sex pest"

It's one group of people not understanding AT ALL the wants and needs of another group.

It's like a non smoker telling a heavy smoker : "No one needs cigarettes" Well, yeah, technically you're right, but the smoker very much wants and needs his cigarettes.

It's like a coach potato telling an Athlete "no one needs to exercise", but an athlete being forced to spend all day, every day, lying on a settee would be unhappy in his soul.

So stop telling people with healthy libido's that it's not a need - it bloody well is! And if Op's wife has withdrawn it after marriage, it IS a deal breaker. It's even in the marriage vows "to have and to hold".

She may view you differently if you have an affair.

@its5oclocksomewheresurely but in all fairness you have used cliches yourself ‘sex is wonderful ‘

yes it maybe if you still have the interest/inclination/libido AND the right person

for many others there are many many reasons both physical and psychological why it’s not wonderful or not wanted -

the issue is if the marriage matters more to you or the sex and the person not wanting it will trump the situation - so the person to whom it matters more has to make a choice if there is no compromise to be had -

Nothing more annoying than someone touching your nipple when you don't want sex.

Do you mean I'd become more desirable in her eyes?

Does any woman even like having her nippled twiddled? Do you have children? Maybe you were a lazy father and it caused her to lose all interest in you, and now you're just another job she has to get out of the way.

Jeez - the sex appliance has stopped working and he wants a ‘women’s perspective’ which he will never understand because he only sees things through his selfish male privilege lens. She not withholding anything mate. She has bodily autonomy and you give her the ick.

You do not have a right to anyone’s touch or body. When you understand that, you’ll be on the first ring of the ladder to understanding a woman’s perspective.

She never talks about sex with me or has any reference to sexuality in our daily lives (literally never). She has never expressed any fantasy to me, much to my frustration. “I don’t have any”

I’ve tried the communication thing repeatedly - both sit down and chat and also things like ‘couples quizzes’ and things like that. Each time I’m shut down quickly as if I’m the problem

What kind of ‘couples quizzes’ were these? Sexy quizzes to encourage your wife to be less vanilla, by any chance? Bringing up ‘fantasies’ isn’t the kind of communication you need if there’s a chance your wife already feels like you’re being a sex pest.
It seems less that OPs wife is refusing to talk about sex at all, more that she’s not up for OP’s idea of ‘communication’…which is essentially just dirty talk that he can get off on.

Over the years basic intimacy like cuddling has been taken away. I like a cuddle at night and as I sleep, but this has eroded to even just the hope of a two minute cuddle before we sleep (only).
Just last night we almost had sex but when I started to gently play with her breast and nipple, she got visibly annoyed and shouted at me for doing it the wrong way. It was “too sore” although I wasn’t rough.

Maybe it was “too sore”. Nipples can be sensitive - she wasn’t accusing you of being too rough, and I doubt she “shouted” at you.
Do you often try to turn cuddles before sleep into sex?

Now, we have vanilla sex only, very limited foreplay (again, her choice) and probably once a month or often less, for 20mins or less

I suspect you’ve either made too many requests for non-vanilla acts/tried to push her to do things she’s not comfortable with…or your idea of “foreplay” does more for you than it does for her (seems likely if the nipple twiddling is anything to go by).

“straight after marriage it seemed to be only when she had the desire to.”

Seriously OP, can you not see how disturbing this sentence is?

i would suggest divorce. You are completely incompatible

The first two words of the original post say he has a kid. No other mention of them or his contribution to raising the child or how he enhances his wife's life. Just that she should be providing sex to him even if she doesn't enthusiastically consent.