Ex not talking to kids until apology- it's been 6 weeks!

[IcyLemonJoker]

My ex and I split up in December, nearly 6 months ago, after 18 years married. I won't go into the ins and outs of all that but since December we have been mainly civil and the kids (DD 16, DS 14) had been visiting him each week - 1 day after school and every other weekend.
The last time they visited their dad, 6 weeks ago, my ex phoned me around 9pm to say I needed to come collect them as DS wasn't welcome in his home. They'd had an argument and he had kicked DS out. Literally made him wait outside. DD had left with her brother out of loyalty and I picked them up soon after.
The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before.
So now we are at an impasse.... my Ex won't see DS until he apologises. DS and DD think their Dad should apologise and DS is not planning to do it. DD won't see her dad until they sort it out.
It's been 6 weeks.
DD misses her Dad but DS is less clear about it.
I have messaged my Ex to try and move things on. He sounds low and is missing the kids but won't budge on waiting for an apology.
Should I encourage DS to apologise when by all accounts his Dad should be taking the lead with this?
It seems like their Dad is willing to cut ties with them over this, which says a lot too.... I'm really torn with what is best for the kids and if I might regret not getting more involved in years to come.

wtf

why do you want this man to see his children

he sounds utterly utterly hideous

I think if this was me I’d level with DS and say “look, I think your Dad isn’t behaving very well here, and if you don’t want to apologise that’s fine. But also if you did want to do it just to smooth things over even though you don’t feel like you should, I’d understand. It’s up to you and I’ll support whatever your choice is.”

I’d tell him he’s being utterly unreasonable and risks having no relationship with the kids. Remind him he’s the adult and they are going through the break-up of the family and need parenting not bullying. Tell him you think it’s in their best interests and his best interests to sort this out, preferably with the help of a family therapist. Then leave it to him. There is not much else you can do other than tell it straight and also be there for the kids.

It sounds like the trash took itself out. Does your ex have form for bring a pig-headed, self-absorbed idiot? Yout kids sound more mature than their father. I wouldn't encourage an apology or making up. Leave them to it.

So, he assaulted your DS, maybe your DD, your ex knows it's high stakes and is focusing on any behaviour other than his own in the hope you don't rip his head off for assaulting at least one of your children - but you want your DS to apologise to him?

Your ex has behaved appallingly. I’d focus on your DC and quite frankly I’d ignore the ex. What parent kicks their 14 year old out over an argument? And from what you’ve written the bad behaviour is his, not your DCs’.

Has XH given you HIS account of what happened? Not that I can imagine what he thinks could justify this.

The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving

I wouldn’t give a flying fig what the twat of an XH says on the matter

Who pushed and shoved who and what was the argument about? Was dd involved or just a witness?

Why would you want your ex to be with ypu DC if there ‘s some “ pushing and shoving” ie physical violence?

They are children and he is an adult. It sounds like he was at fault but even if he wasn’t they are still kids. Children are going to make mistakes and as an adult you have to manage that not throw them out and not speak to them for 6 weeks!
Sorry OP this is an appalling situation of his making I’m sorry you’re stuck dealing with it.
He’s a very stupid man.

What would have happened if this argument had taken place before you separated? Our of interest? Would you have smoothed it over?

I would say your ex is the adult here and needs to apologize first - not necessarily for the original argument starting or happening depending on what happened, but for over reacting, throwing them out, and then being pig headed about demanding an apology.

However if he thinks the "principle" that he will not apologize first is more important than maintaining a relationship with his children, then he's a bloody fool. He can live the rest of his life knowing he didn't back down if he likes... alone.

I would be over the moon that twat wasn’t in my children’s lives

It is telling your DS is unbothered

and your DD only mildly bothered but sticking with her brother

You have “messaged my ex to try to get things Moving along”

why??!

he’s carrying on paying CMS?

There's a reason he's your ex, isn't there.

What an arse.

And has he considered if he continues to behave like this he won't be invited to their future 18th/21st/graduations/weddings/christenings/Christmas etc etc etc?

He'll be the loser in this.

This.

DS should only apologise if he has something to apologise for. I mean specifically rather than a general sorry for the whole argument. It’s good to take accountability but not ownership of someone else’s part in it. That’s why a family councillor or therapist would be best.

I presume he treated you not too dissimilarly when you were married to him. He has not changed now he is acting abusively around his children; that was always going to happen. Such men hate all women and remain volatile. This is also why informal contact arrangements do not work with abusers.

Do you remain fearful or him and his reactions therefore you still tread carefully around him in an attempt not to set him off?. If you have not enrolled yourself onto the Freedom Programme I suggest you do this going forward.

He giving the silent treatment now is a further example of emotional abuse.
Re the children they seem to have arrived at their own conclusions re their abusive dad so their wishes should remain paramount. Their dad manufactured this argument against his own children. I would not at all encourage them to apologise (for what exactly because their dad caused it) and to resume relations with their abusive parent.

I don't think either your DS or ex have behaved well here. If your DD wants to go back fine. I think you will just have to take a step back and let this run its course.

Abuse however, is not a relationship issue. Joint counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. He has not changed; I would readily assume he did the same behaviours when OP was married to him. None of these people are emotionally safe enough to be in his presence. And I doubt also that family therapy would have any effect whatsoever on him given that he already blames his children for something he did. These types never apologise nor do they accept any responsibility for their actions.

Abuse is about power and control and he still wants absolute here over his family unit. It's about winning and further punishing the OP for having the utter cheek to leave him because in his head he is the perfect specimen of manhood.

I think there must be more to this, crucial extra information that has not been provided, and until it is, all you are going to get is husband-hate.

OP

Both your children need emotionally healthy and non abusive male and female role models in their lives. Your ex here does not fit the bill at all.

So the kids are with you full time? You could have a very matter of fact conversation with ex along the lines of. 'As I'm now looking after our children full time I think we need to adjust the CM to X based on 365 nights a year and no contact with you. Let me know when you have set this up or I can inform CMS if more convenient'

Perhaps the idea that this could be a permanent change might galvanise him (plus money)

He's the adult, he needs to duck it up.

P.s. if he's been violent with his children (rather then defensive) then I would not encourage contact.

I would message your ex what you said:

"both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before."

That you were not impressed by having to go rescue him at short notice on a night that he was meant to be parenting. He is the parent, it is on him to fix this.

Husband hate?.

This man is abusive and now uses the silent treatment on his kids. Decent men do not do that. He threw his 14 year old son out of his house on some pretext (probably he thought his son was showing him "disrespect" because such men demand and expect utter obidience) and his sister showed solidarity to her brother.

That’s quite an appropriate username.