Ex not talking to kids until apology- it's been 6 weeks!

[IcyLemonJoker]

My ex and I split up in December, nearly 6 months ago, after 18 years married. I won't go into the ins and outs of all that but since December we have been mainly civil and the kids (DD 16, DS 14) had been visiting him each week - 1 day after school and every other weekend.
The last time they visited their dad, 6 weeks ago, my ex phoned me around 9pm to say I needed to come collect them as DS wasn't welcome in his home. They'd had an argument and he had kicked DS out. Literally made him wait outside. DD had left with her brother out of loyalty and I picked them up soon after.
The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before.
So now we are at an impasse.... my Ex won't see DS until he apologises. DS and DD think their Dad should apologise and DS is not planning to do it. DD won't see her dad until they sort it out.
It's been 6 weeks.
DD misses her Dad but DS is less clear about it.
I have messaged my Ex to try and move things on. He sounds low and is missing the kids but won't budge on waiting for an apology.
Should I encourage DS to apologise when by all accounts his Dad should be taking the lead with this?
It seems like their Dad is willing to cut ties with them over this, which says a lot too.... I'm really torn with what is best for the kids and if I might regret not getting more involved in years to come.

Your ex sounds awful, an emotional blackmailer and abuser. What a horrible man. There are healthier ways of solving this than what your ex has chosen to do.

Can you imagine if a Mum did this? It would probably end up in the daily mail or those horrific magazines that talk about Katie price all the time. God men are so fucking disappointing. Sorry Op, keep them away from the nasty prick.
@letshearitfortheboy there is no excuse not to speak to your child for 6 weeks! As the adult in the relationship you have a responsibility to sort it out, for your child’s psychological well being more than anything.

You support your children by levelling with them. You will always back them but you do not know how far their father will take this and that means they could risk their relationship with their father. I would talk to your son and say that his sister is acting out of loyalty to him and that’s very commendable and shows how much she loves him but she misses her father. His sister will probably need his blessing and assurance that resuming a relationship with her father, wouldn’t risk her relationship with her brother.

If you decide to push for a reconciliation then tell your children of your motivation but they get to decide and you will back them. Their fathers behaviour probably has nothing to do with them, it sounds like a weak man trying to exert power in a dynamic that has changed since he left the family home. The silly man probably to stupid or too proud to realise that his behaviour is the very catalyst for something he is fearful of.

Drop the rope OP. Your ex can sort this out or not. It’s not going to work out well if you intervene.

Who pushed and shoved first? Because regardless of what ex did, if it was ds I do think he should apologise, he shouldn’t have gotten physical with someone, certainly not over what you describe as a trivial issue. dd can miss her dad but she’s making her own choice so that’s up to her.

If it was dh then I understand ds not wanting to apologise. However if ex is normally reasonable I would talk to ds about apologising for what he did. That doesn’t mean accepting ex. For example ds could say I am sorry for being rude (for example) but I don’t think it’s acceptable that you were physical with me. Ds doesn’t have to forgive ex and it’s unreasonable that he should have to be the bigger person in tackling the issue, but I do think it’s a good life lesson to see our own wrong doings in an argument and not just try to ‘win’ it by being ‘most’ right. If ex was the one that got physical then kicked ds out I would expect a serious apology from ex as well as discussion of how he’s going to ensure this never happens again and a lot of work, before I encourage or even allow ds (or dd) to go back.

it does say a lot about the emotional maturity of ex that he won’t tackle this issue and would rather never see either of his children again and I wouldn’t shy away from discussing that with them. It’s important they learn that this isn’t the way to deal with conflict or your children and it’s his failing and not something to do with them.

Whatever, the post doesn't make sense to me as it stands. Is DS biologically his? Does XH have form for wild behaviour like this? What was the argument? Obviously there's no point apologising if the same thing could easily happen again a week later.

If your son doesn’t want to apologise, I would support him in that decision. Your ex is being ridiculously stubborn.

Irrespective of what the argument was about your ExH's behaviour was dreadful - making DS stand outside until you picked him up. This is not parenting. I assume he behaved this badly when you were together. It's not normal (I had a dad like this). He is the adult he should behave like one. Your DC are not responsible for regulating his emotions.

Your DS being told to he isn’t welcome? Pushing and shoving? It must of been bad if your DD waited outside in solidarity with her brother.
They are at an age where they have their thoughts and opinions and your ex has physically and verbally abused them. You need to tell them that their dad has no right to treat them like that, that if they don’t want to see him until he apologises to them, that you respect their decision.
Your ex has to learn to treat people with respect and if he drives his children away, that’s on him. Stop trying to manage your ex’s behaviour, your trying to smooth things over but to your DC, it’s coming across that it’s ok for people to treat them like shit.

It sounds like your ds has got to the age of standing up to his dad, and your ex can't cope with being challenged. Hence the pushing & shoving.

I'd leave them to sort it out themselves.

Your dd sounds lovely 🙂

Your ex is the adult here and a parent. Does he not realise that parenting is bloody hard sometimes, especially the teenage years?!
Could you imagine literally throwing your 14 year old out of the house every time there was an argument or stroppy behaviour? Dreadful ‘parenting’.
I’d leave him to his sulking. Pathetic man-child.

Sounds like your kids are spot on. Do not encourage them to apologise to a bully. Any man who can leave their child on a doorstep is an utter shit.

Sounds like your ex doesn’t want the kids around.

Protect your kids. They are pretty much old enough to know what they want.

I'd just stay out of it. DC are old enough to make their own decisions and ex clearly feels old enough to sulk like a child make his own decisions too.
You don't need to solve his problems

Some good suggestions on how this should move forward here, I'm sure it is the source of a lot of hurt for your DCs, it reveals that your XH is emotionally immature. Your duty is to your DCs, from what you say you already know that, have a final explore with them what they want, try to make it happen for them within reason, show them you have tried (eg one final call or message to XH to reason with him) then move on. Your ex is emotionally abusive. Regardless of what happened using the silent treatment on children is grim, let them know they would be within their rights not to see him if he doesn't make moves to resolve it with them as a parent).

I would be asking him just exactly what his plan would have been if this had happened when you all lived in the same house, would he have kicked his son out and refused to speak to him or let him back in his home then?? He can't have it both ways, he's either a father and his home is also DS's, or he's not.

Who did the pushing and shoving? So, it was a silly argument which got physical but who got physical?

He sounds like a child, and a bit stupid. Even if it was your son who started the violence, at that age you sit down and talk to them, you don’t cut them off the way he has. But I suspect it was your ex who got violent first? In which case, you keep your kids away from him.

At a guess I'd say you spent a lot of your marriage apologising to keep the peace when you weren't in the wrong and you are still semi stuck in that mentality

No, dont encourage an apology that isn't deserved. Say your DS apologises to smooth things over, what happens next time? Because there will be a next time.

He put a teenage boy out of his house, what would he have done if you were still married to this immature bully?

Please tell your DS you will support his decision and tell DD you are proud of her. Tell your ex to grow up and be a parent.

I love how ex is desperately missing them but wants an apology from DC for his own actions, bullying! He’s playing the victim, if it were me, I’d say you reap what you sow and you have no right to bully them.
He is gaslighting them, making out they are in the wrong for his emotional and verbal abuse.
I bet it was one of the reasons you are separated, they grew up watching him act like this and you have to tell them they have the right to stand up for themselves. To not accept anyone treating them like shit.

Emotionally abusive men do not respond to reasoned argument. The only point of view that matters to them is their own. Do not further reach out to him yourself OP, that puts you in a weak position and he knows you very well.

You werent clear on who was doing the pushing and shoving. What you were very clear with though is that you make excuses for terrible shitty behaviour from your ex as standard to your children.

Your children have told you their dad’s behaviour was unacceptable.

They have standards and boundaries. Stop trying to erode them.

And stop talking to the ex yourself. There is absolutely no need to be speaking to him.

He is doing DARVO here like so many abusive men do to their chosen targets. Deny, attack, reverse victim, offender. It's a pattern of behaviour used by perpetrators of abuse or wrongdoing to deflect blame and responsibility, often by denying any wrongdoing, attacking the credibility of the victims (his children) or accusers, and falsely claiming they are the victim.

I would simply ignore this toddler whom you have very wisely ditched from your life. Just get on with enjoying life with your children and do not get embroiled in this.

My exh uses the silent treatment, it's a learnt behaviour, his whole family are like this and often go months ignoring each other. I find it utterly bizzare and we once had a huge argument when his brother was ignoring his teenage nephew for months. Exh couldn't accept that his dn didn't deserve this!

We have dc (teens) and I have had to explain to them that although exh behaviour is unnacceptable they really have 2 choices. Be like dad or be the adult here because dad never will be!

They shouldn't have to but they love their dad and he isn't really ever going to change, so I guess this is the price of a relationship with him. Its so normal to him that he will never truly believe its wrong.

Most importantly I don't want this insidious behaviour repeating with my kids, if they ignore dad in return then they are lowering themeselves to his level and my kids are better than that. I asked them to remember how it feels when exh does this and if they would ever want to make someone else feel like that.

That said my exh is never physical just sulky and spiteful. I don't know what I would do if he ever laid a hand on ds.

All of this. Listen to your children!

There is literally nothing in the OP that sounds unbelievable or doesn't add up. You are simply desperate to find a way to make this someone else's fault rather than the adult male. "Let's hear it for the boy" indeed.

An awful lot of people will recognise this kind of petulant behaviour from disconnected and inadequate fathers. Both myself and my husband could give dozens of similar stories. As could many friends I've discussed childhood backgrounds with. How wonderful for you that it's not something you've experienced. But that shouldn't render you incapable of believing it could happen to others.