Ex not talking to kids until apology- it's been 6 weeks!

[IcyLemonJoker]

My ex and I split up in December, nearly 6 months ago, after 18 years married. I won't go into the ins and outs of all that but since December we have been mainly civil and the kids (DD 16, DS 14) had been visiting him each week - 1 day after school and every other weekend.
The last time they visited their dad, 6 weeks ago, my ex phoned me around 9pm to say I needed to come collect them as DS wasn't welcome in his home. They'd had an argument and he had kicked DS out. Literally made him wait outside. DD had left with her brother out of loyalty and I picked them up soon after.
The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before.
So now we are at an impasse.... my Ex won't see DS until he apologises. DS and DD think their Dad should apologise and DS is not planning to do it. DD won't see her dad until they sort it out.
It's been 6 weeks.
DD misses her Dad but DS is less clear about it.
I have messaged my Ex to try and move things on. He sounds low and is missing the kids but won't budge on waiting for an apology.
Should I encourage DS to apologise when by all accounts his Dad should be taking the lead with this?
It seems like their Dad is willing to cut ties with them over this, which says a lot too.... I'm really torn with what is best for the kids and if I might regret not getting more involved in years to come.

Ex is a massive twat. Sounds like your children have realised this and acted accordingly.

What's the context? Why did he leave? Have you walked on eggshells around him a lot? Does he generally have this victim mentality?

if your ex is pushing and shoving your child then you need to protect your children from him. Not encourage them to apologise.

I disagree. That is making DS compromise his principles and learn to lie just to people-please. Very dangerous imho.

There are two elements to this, OP. Firstly there's the fact he has behaved abusively and mistreated his children while they were in his care. Wherever he is living is his children's home also. Throwing a 14 year old out of his own home is abusive. Getting physical is abusive.

Secondly, there's the fact that he is just a common or garden variety deadbeat. How lovely for him that he has the luxury to just opt out of being a parent for 6 weeks. Safe in the knowledge that his children actually do have one proper parent who will meet all their needs during that time, while he's having his little tantrum. He's not invested as a father. He sees it as something he can pick up and drop when it suits him.

As another PP has said, your children clearly have solid boundaries and are loyal to each other. They recognise that their father's behaviour was out of order and they've stood up for themselves. Don't try and erode that out of some misguided sense of fixing things. They are old enough to determine this relationship for themselves. Your ex may well have shot his bolt here and I imagine this is part of a long line of inappropriate and abusive parenting from him.

Even if your DS was totally in the wrong (which I don't believe), it's still his dad's responsibility to parent him and help him get back onto an even keel. So your ex is showing himself to be a shit parent either way.

this. At those ages, a court would take the childrens' views into account and therefore so should you. Actually unless your children have got form for being seriously devious and manipulative, I wouldn't be too worried about what actually happened. You weren't there, you will never know the true facts. Three other things......one is that your post doesn't sound shocked by this? I mean you may be more shocked than it appears but is there a history of their father behaving in this way albeit without the violence? Second a barrier has now been breached. Once someone resorts to physicality once, its more likely to happen again. Thirdly he's low???? not relevant.

I don't see it as that. I see it as putting the decision where it belongs, with the child, and declaring support for him regardless. Its what I would say to an adult who had been in the same circumstances.

Did you spend your marriage smoothing things over when your ex was being irrational?

If so, encouraging your son to apologise to smooth things over is a repeat of that dysfunctional dynamic of being a doormat and I think that it will be a matter of time before you’ll have to pick them up again. You and your dd will be on eggshells waiting for it to happen again because abusive behaviour escalates and your ex will be emboldened in his thinking that he is 100% right and ds is wrong. Parenting teens is hard but it should never turn physical and ex is behaving like a teen himself.

I think that the most that you should do is ask him to encourage dd to see her dad on her own if she’d like. (I assume the incident didn’t involve her)

This

OP - your exH’s behaviour is unacceptable - you don’t throw a child out because of relatively minor bad behaviour. You don’t refuse to be a parent because you don’t like their behaviour.

That you are trying to fix this does seem like you haven’t recovered from what was possibly an emotionally abusive relationship.

Stop trying to fix this. It’s not your job to fix his bad choices.

Move forward with the divorce and write this all down, what happened, record messages between you etc. you have evidence you made the dcs available for contact but he’s refused.

i hope you’ve got a good solicitor, this is not a man who’s going to be reasonable.

So, a fully grown adult assaulted your son (which is rightly illegal where I live) and neither want to see him particularly, because he is unable to emotionally support them through the hugely damaging event of the divorce. And further alienated them by chucking them outside?!

And your solution is to suggest they apologise, to this emotionally void adult bully?! No way. You need to safeguard your children. Why the fuck would you fawn over the ex. I'm just glad you got away, but you need to end these appeasement patterns right now before you further damage the kids.

Get them therapy. Let them ignore him, literally for ever. He's shown all of you what he is, now believe it, your kids and their peace is worth SO much more.

Your DH has behaved appallingly immaturely in abdicating parenting simply because of his hurt feelings (it's not even about something serious like drawing a line in the sand over repeated risky teenage behaviour). It should not be your responsibility to be the only adult here and try and smooth things over. However, your DCs' interests are the most important consideration. It's a tricky age to be dealing with your parents separating. If you think that, on balance, continued contact with their Dad and believing he cares about them is in their best interests, then could you persuade them all to meet and discuss this? Perhaps a public place but one where they are not easily overheard? No-one is required to apologise in advance but they can all at least see the other one made an effort, even if it's not a guaranteed success. Maybe there's even another family member they all trust who could be there to stop the conversation going south? I would be so annoyed with my ex in your situation, but I think you need a cool head and a focus on the best path to the best outcome for your DCs' sake.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts, thank you. (First time poster, I had no idea so many people would comment!)
Yeah, so I haven't actually suggested to the kids to apologise, but have just supported what they've wanted.

I should have mentioned, DS has told DD to meet up with her Dad if she wants to.

The kids are both talking to school counsellors but maybe therapy will be needed.

I'm in absolutely no doubt that ExH is in the wrong, regardless of the content of the argument. I did get his side and spoke on the phone the next day. Even though he says DS pushed him first, (I'm not sure I believe that, based on the kids' accounts and it seeming unlikely), but either way, he pushed DS, whether first or second.
He has some big flaws, as a partner and a dad... also chronic pain, depression, neurodiversity... he has always been focused on respect and obedience from the kids, as another poster guessed. I wouldn't say I was a doormat but eggshells, yes. I'm grateful to the people pointing out the unintended messages my kids might take on board if I try and appease/ smooth things and I think that's important for me to tackle when i talk it through with them again.

If adults want a relationship with a child it is up to the adult to ensure it happens.

this is madness

let him be miserable.

You have said that you walked on eggshells during the relationship. Now you have left, you don't have to do that any more. Allow your children the same privilege to decide for themselves what behaviour they will accept from their dad. Your ex has obviously crossed a line with your son and your son has rightly set his own boundaries. Now that they are old enough to her their views taken into consideration, support their choices. He sounds very difficult to live with and I hate adults that expect automatic respect from their children but don't show them any respect back.

His chronic pain, depression and neurodiversity is no excuse for being abusive. I’m guessing, that’s his excuse for his horrific behaviour? What he expects is the people around him to be robots and goes ballistic, intimidating them until they can’t take it anymore and then they apologise, just to make him stop.
Your DC know you have their backs, will support them no matter what they decide and as for your ex, his reign is over and his comeuppance is coming.

@IcyLemonJoker for goodness sake, ds is 16 so he does not need to see his father if he doesnt want to!! your dd who is 14 can go and see him if she wants. she doesnt need her brother holding her hand. BUT, if your ex is starting to show aggression towards the kids then I would just leave it be! he doesnt deserve kids. he sounds very immature

Walking on eggshells is akin to living in fear.

None of you have to bend to his will any longer. He is your common or garden abusive man. Health issues and or neurodiversity (what makes you think this of him) are no excuse or justification for what he has done to you and in turn your kids.

Awful man.

You should be proud of your dcs for standing their ground for what is right.

No, don’t encourage an apology from your son unless you think he’s really in the wrong, show that you support him and his decisions. ExH should be the one moving mountains to see his kids here, and if he’s being stubborn then that’s on him. He’s the adult here.

I think you really need to stay out of it with ex and support kids as others have said.

Exs behaviour is utterly utterly awful and has caused the damage, you can’t do the relationship for him and kids need to see that you realise it’s unacceptable.

also, don’t catastrophise! And don’t encourage the kids to. Even if this blows up and lasts ages it doesn’t mean there’s no way back. But their dad needs to understand he can’t throw his weight around like this. It might take time. In the mean time, enjoy the peace and quiet and hold your kids with all your love

I like this idea. He shouldn’t get to not have the children and carry on paying as though he is.

Realistically the daughter is 16 so she is sitting her GCSEs. Don’t do anything until they are over (middle of June probably).

It sounds like it needs to be laid on the line to your ex that if he wants a continuing relationship with his children he needs, at the very least, to agree to something sort of counselling/family therapy and to forget this nonsense about laying down conditions. Ask if he really wants to go through the rest of his life lonely, not knowing anything about his children and what they might achieve, not knowing whether he has grandchildren let alone meeting them - will his sense of righteousness about his stupid apology really compensate for all that?

If he still holds back after that, leave him to it. It doesn't sound like he's really going to add much to your children's lives,

Why assume it was the children doing the pushing and shoving?