Ex not talking to kids until apology- it's been 6 weeks!

[IcyLemonJoker]

My ex and I split up in December, nearly 6 months ago, after 18 years married. I won't go into the ins and outs of all that but since December we have been mainly civil and the kids (DD 16, DS 14) had been visiting him each week - 1 day after school and every other weekend.
The last time they visited their dad, 6 weeks ago, my ex phoned me around 9pm to say I needed to come collect them as DS wasn't welcome in his home. They'd had an argument and he had kicked DS out. Literally made him wait outside. DD had left with her brother out of loyalty and I picked them up soon after.
The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before.
So now we are at an impasse.... my Ex won't see DS until he apologises. DS and DD think their Dad should apologise and DS is not planning to do it. DD won't see her dad until they sort it out.
It's been 6 weeks.
DD misses her Dad but DS is less clear about it.
I have messaged my Ex to try and move things on. He sounds low and is missing the kids but won't budge on waiting for an apology.
Should I encourage DS to apologise when by all accounts his Dad should be taking the lead with this?
It seems like their Dad is willing to cut ties with them over this, which says a lot too.... I'm really torn with what is best for the kids and if I might regret not getting more involved in years to come.

Let him. You are teaching them a valuable lesson about staying true to what they believe is right. A big part of parenting is modelling repair and reconciliation.

Have I had some absolute belters with my teen where she and I both acted like total jerks to each other? Yes.

But I’m the adult and my brain is fully developed and I have 40+ years of life experience and practice with emotional self-regulation to draw on. It’s my job to show her how to do the repair work to heal a rift when we have an argument. It doesn’t mean I don’t expect her to apologise. But it’s my job to go first most of the time and to open up the conversation.

Still playing games and giving the silent treatment 6 whole weeks later is incredibly childish. It’s exactly the sort of thing my mum used to do. She’d disappear for 3 months sometimes if I said something wrong. Guess what? We are NC now and I haven’t spoken to her in 3 years. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Support your children to trust their guts and do what feels right for them. Can you imagine walking away from a relationship with your kids because you got in a little fight? No, of course, you wouldn’t. Your kids know how awful that is too. It sounds like they are a great support for each other and that’s really lovely.

I’m so sorry for your loss. She sounds like a brilliant person.

When I read your OP I wondered if your Ex has autism, and you say in your update he has ND.

My Ex too. it’s that extreme black and white thinking, inability to understand how others are experiencing something, unable to take into account others perspectives to come to a fuller more accurate understanding of what happened and inability to accept fault but locate fault outside of himself. ( yes, yes, NAAMALT, but these traits exist as autistic traits in some men). Oh and of course the lack of emotional regulation. All this leading to normal parenting things escalating wildly out of control.

I would explain to your son how his Father’s autism caused this situation. Make it clear this does not excuse his Father’s behaviour. It’s important your son knows he is entitled to set boundaries around his Father due to his behaviour. But it’s also important he understands that his Father is not behaving like this out of a lack of love, but because he has a cognitive impairment. Again, make sure your son knows you will support him whatever he decides. Having a partner/ parent with autism with the more extreme expressions of traits your Ex seems to have can be extremely painful. Your son needs your support and acceptance of his decisions regarding his Father, whatever he decides what to do in this very emotional painful situation.

My Ex destroyed our marriage through refusing to ever acknowledge my perspective or apologise. Not out of perversity but due to genuinely not being able to understand I even had a different point of view, let alone what that was, let alone that it could have any validity.

I really for your son. And your daughter.

I'm in absolutely no doubt that ExH is in the wrong, regardless of the content of the argument.

In that case, do not make your son apologize. Your son will be hurt even worse if he feels like you don't have his back either. It will indirectly hurt your daughter too.

In my opinion, your ex is behaving like a child and is expecting more mature behavior from his children than he is willing to display himself. He needs to be the bigger person here and set a good example. Children are not an on an equal footing to their parents. They need their parents' guidance and sometimes their discipline (in a calm manner). What they do not need is to be parentified and made responsible for the behavior of a parent.

You are not responsible for your ex's behavior either, but if you want to, you can tell him to grow the fuck up and actually act like a parent, rather than a sulking, petulant teenager.

How old is this ex 12?! What a child!I would leave it up to the kids whatever they feel comfortable with

Ops ex is abusive and uses neurodiversity as an excuse or justification for his abusive behaviour now aimed at his children. ASD as well does not equal abuse. What you are describing re your ex chorlton is an abusive man.

This!
OP you have a perfect opportunity to erase this man from your & the children's lives.
Drop the rope, back away, stop engaging. Let him think you are unhappy about the situation but are being stubborn & wont back down, let him think all this is hurting you etc. Let him bask in pleasure as he contemplates the pain/punishment which he thinks he is inflicting
Use that as a smokescreen to escape from him and have a life free from him and all the hassle he will bring.

I presume you’ve reported him to the police for assaulting your son?
Him ‘refusing’ to see the kids is an absolute gift- why would you want him to? He’s abusive and Jesus, even if he hadn’t assaulted him, he threw them out at night. Can you not see that that’s completely unacceptable?

Thankyou, she was just wonderful and although her father is an utter pratt I feel sorry for him that he missed out on her for all her adult years. It’s hard enough for me to live with and I don’t have any regrets.

Have you considered that ex has engineered this so he can be child free?

It all seems to be very extreme and that is what is making me wonder this.

He has gone six weeks so it appears to suit him. It looks deliberate to me.

Show their dad this and see how he responds:

Support your kids' decisions on whether they want to see him or not. This is for them to lead you, unless there are further assaults, then drop the hammer.

Do not facilitate ex having a relationship with them if he's physically abusing them and forcing them to leave the house. This should be reported.

This was probably traumatic for them, a parent assault then forcing your son out of the house. Good on your daughter for going out too.

You have TWO witnesses that say it was the Dad doing the pushing. Your DD would like to be in contact with her dad again, so it's very unlikely that she would lie to support her brother.

You have an adult who threw his children out on the street to wait for you to collect them, you witnessed that part for yourself. I'm sure that didn't take place without some very unpleasant comments, which must have been humiliating and traumatic for them.

Why is his side of the story given so much credence, because he's an adult?

"He has always been focused on respect and obedience from the kids"

and yet he makes no attempt whatsoever to set them an example of how to treat people with respect.

I'd be apprehensive about sending them back, because next time he gets mad with them - how is he going to top his current display?

Any adult who can cold shoulder children for six weeks until they get the apology they demand, but who will not consider apologising for their own behaviour in turn... or meeting them halfway, does not deserve any apology at all.
Imagine being a child, not knowing if they will hear from their father that he doesn't want them to visit, imagine the uncertainty of this lasting week after week, not knowing how long this would go on for or if that's it.
Its dreadful to think of that. They must feel he's disowned them. As in fact he has.

And if he eventually gets the much demanded "apology"... what then?
Will that be good enough?
He's made such a stand by now that I doubt a simple apology will satisfy him and I very much doubt from the sound of it that he would acknowledge that he was at fault in this scenario in anyway.
He's a cruel man. That's all you need to know.

Let him come to his senses.
Claim full time child maintenance.. that might sway him.

My dad didn't speak to me on and off for a year when I was 15-16, I am an old woman now but I can still remember how awful it made me feel and I think it really damaged me. All you learn when a parent does this is to despise them and then to distance yourself from them as soon as you are are old enough. It is emotional abuse to stop speaking to a child and to do for an extended period of time is awful. He, as many others have pointed out is the adult and the behavour he is modelling is reprehensible.

Without outing myself with details I know siblings who haven’t spoken to their dad for over 15 years. Their father was utterly unreasonable, and should have been the bigger person and let sleeping dogs lie. This reeks of a man who should behave better as a parent and they are probably better off without him poisoning their lives. Let him make the first move. Just be there for your children and make them feel loved.

The walking on eggshells thing is something you've all escaped from. You don't live that life any more so don't reintroduce it into your children's. IMO you should be telling your ex that as an adult he should take the lead in talking through and moving on from any problems with his children, that his behaviour is wrong and you won't be helping him out of this one. They sound thoroughly unimpressed with him and ready to call his bluff - and frankly good for them. Support them, OP.

A 14 year old boy shouldn't have to placate a grown man to smooth things over.

Were you the appeaser when it came to the children's and Dad's relationships, stepped in when things were getting fraught ? @IcyLemonJoker
I know DH has a tendency to go all silverback when he clashes with teenage DS, although not in a physical way, because DS would win that battle. I am the one who reminds DH how to adult and DS how to deal with that teenage need to always be right, even when wrong

I've not spoke to my dad for 15 years coz of how toxic he was. Never abuse or anything just not a nice person. Best decision I ever made. Not wasting my time on horrible people when I can never get that time back! Blood is not thicker than water! Nobody owes anybody anything

Maybe he doesn't want to have to parent them and this makes it easier.

Maybe DS behaved in a way that does require an apology and accountability.

I have experienced very difficult and not ok behaviour from my teen. I have told them to get out and let me have space. I have requested apologies and accountability and didn't want to talk further until such time. With very good reason.

I have myself behaved in ways requiring an apology and accountability and always do so. Men seem to struggle with this part, thinking it makes them look weak and will negatively impact their role as ' leader'.

What's really really important - is what you need. Do you need the break? The time to yourself? If so, I'd explain to ex that this situation is not ok because he is completely dipping out of parenting. They will therefore have to find a way. Be firm. Yes, I know many will think this isn't right but why must mum's always put themselves bottom of the pile. Your kids will adjust and find a way to handle him until they decide they might not want to.

If you can manage ok and don't need a break, get straight onto child maintenance asap. He's going to have to pay up.

It's not right but I know plenty who live this life daily or grew up this way.

We don't know exactly what went down. We know the ex lost control but how many dad's are like this. A fair amount are. And life is about navigating the failings of our parents and finding a way through.

If OP is able to do this alone then going alone and chasing CMS would work fine. Maybe this will be way too much for her and she can't fix things to her detriment.

seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Scroll on if you don't like it.

I am allowed to comment.

Say something of use perhaps.

A debate and dialogue will help OP decide what is right.