Ex not talking to kids until apology- it's been 6 weeks!

[IcyLemonJoker]

My ex and I split up in December, nearly 6 months ago, after 18 years married. I won't go into the ins and outs of all that but since December we have been mainly civil and the kids (DD 16, DS 14) had been visiting him each week - 1 day after school and every other weekend.
The last time they visited their dad, 6 weeks ago, my ex phoned me around 9pm to say I needed to come collect them as DS wasn't welcome in his home. They'd had an argument and he had kicked DS out. Literally made him wait outside. DD had left with her brother out of loyalty and I picked them up soon after.
The argument itself was over something silly but both kids' accounts of what happened don't paint their dad in a good light and it ended with some pushing and shoving, something that's never happened before.
So now we are at an impasse.... my Ex won't see DS until he apologises. DS and DD think their Dad should apologise and DS is not planning to do it. DD won't see her dad until they sort it out.
It's been 6 weeks.
DD misses her Dad but DS is less clear about it.
I have messaged my Ex to try and move things on. He sounds low and is missing the kids but won't budge on waiting for an apology.
Should I encourage DS to apologise when by all accounts his Dad should be taking the lead with this?
It seems like their Dad is willing to cut ties with them over this, which says a lot too.... I'm really torn with what is best for the kids and if I might regret not getting more involved in years to come.

Ridiculous. One is an adult and one is a child. If a mother did this to her son everyone would be saying exactly the same thing.

To deal with a disagreement as an adult by refusing to speak to someone for 6 weeks is an extraordinary example of poor parenting. That is not how he should be teaching his children to deal with disagreements. Making his child stand outside to wait was ridiculous too - he can't bare to look at him? How is that going to make the child feel? How bad would you have to be to make someone not even be able to look at you?

He's clearly a very poor parent with absolutely no idea how to handle teenagers. He is obviously someone who thinks children should be little robots that jsut do as their told without question and are seen but not heard.

Sadly I think your kids are probably better off not seeing him, who knows what other damaging messages they are picking up from him and his behaviour. You daughter will no doubt be learning that she should walk on eggshells around men, just like you felt you had to.

That response is of course fine, I was talking about the “you were right to split from him”, “stop the children seeing him”, etc type. Of which there were plenty.

What a ridiculous suggestion. A 14 year old child is plenty old enough to be told to apologise for something and face consequences if they don’t. Your alternative - in which the little snowflakes get away with their behaviour with no consequences at all - is extremely poor parenting, which leads to the entitled children we see miserably fail as adults when they get into the real world.

And I’m am very willing to bet you would not make your sweeping generalisations about the children being better off without him if the genders were reversed. Very willing. But then men-haters don't go around thinking they are men-haters.

If you would ignore your child for 6 weeks as a way to punish them, I worry for your kids.

Years ago I made one of my dcs apologise to my then husband because I thought it would smooth things over. I was basically in denial about abuse and I still regret making her do that to this day. He is an ex now and both dcs (adults) no contact with him at their own decision.

Who gives their kids the silent treatment for 6 weeks?

He is a child and only he can choose to repair his relationship with his children.

Stay out of it, support your children but do not intervene unless they ask you to.

I disagree. It’s not clear who shoved who, how about he put him out because he was shoved as a father then too right your son must apologise otherwise what are u teaching him to be, as he gets older, that is what u do to get what u want. U have said yrself he misses his kids and sounds like a gd father. Being the adult does not mean u take shit fr yr kids regardless of their age. I will risk not having a relationship in the future if it means they realise the world is not just for them to take and take like as a parent u are emotionless. Parents do parenting and not try to be their friend. What a world we live in ppl who are scared of their kids or for the fear of losing them wow

have you rtft? why do you think he's an ex?

If your son pushed his father I would demand he apologise or they will be consequences from me too coz one day he will do it to someone else’s child and believe me it won’t be funny. Also the fact u didn’t push for a sit down/reconciliation(if ur son pushed) means you have enabled him as a parent and u are the problem and at this point u need to have a chat with your child that it is not acceptable and your daughter that you don’t blindly support but support what is right having values u stand by goes a long way. Also that she picked a side and that says a lot about her, what kind of young lady does she want to grow to become. If it was the father that was wrong then u need to sit him down (differences aside) and he needs to explain and apologise to his kids. And yes u need to do this and should have been done that very week coz if u don’t everyone loses.

you still haven't rtft have you? are you the ex?

Do you not wonder why OP left him?. I would readily assume he did the same behaviours when OP was married to him. None of his family are emotionally safe enough to be in his presence.

I doubt also that family therapy would have any effect whatsoever on him given that he already blames his children for something he himself did. These
types of men never apologise nor do they accept any responsibility for their actions.

Abuse is about power and control and he still wants absolute here over his family unit. It's about winning and further punishing the OP for having the utter cheek to leave him because in his head he is the perfect specimen of manhood.

But both children have said that their father pushed his son first. So he should be apologising and facing the consequences if he doesn't. The children are old enough to decide for themselves if they don't want to see him any more. OP is under no obligation to act as peacemaker anymore and facilitate them seeing their dad.

How childish is OP's ex-husband to not contact his own children for over 6 weeks? Surely he should behave like the adult here?

People on here hate abusive men and bad fathers and there are loads of examples of both these types of men on Mumsnet. I think this guy is one of them.

It is more likely that the father pushed his son as both children are saying that the dad pushed his son first.

It's not OP's job to demand that her son apologises for something she doesn't think he did. There is nothing wrong with OP's values. She has contacted her ex-husband who refuses to back down and see his children unless he receives an apology. OP has said:

'He has some big flaws, as a partner and a dad... also chronic pain, depression, neurodiversity... he has always been focused on respect and obedience from the kids'

He sound rigid and dictatorial and not like a loving father. He will lose his kids and it will all be his own fault.

What would you consider justification to not speak to your children, who are under 18, for 6 weeks+?

Anyone reading this, thinking they don't have flaws as a person and a parent, is delusional.

This

ok to be clear.....he's an ex for a reason. The OP has already said that he has multiple problems and there have always been problems. "'He has some big flaws, as a partner and a dad... also chronic pain, depression, neurodiversity... he has always been focused on respect and obedience from the kids'"
Does it sould like he is the worst most abusive parent in the known universe? No. Does it sound like he is a proper person to parent children? Again no. The children are old enough to make their own choices about seeing him or not and their choice has been not. I think the OP is making a right decision by listening to her kids.

You don't have to be a perfect parent, just good enough. And ignoring your children for 6 weeks is nowhere near the bare minimum.

You're missing the point; it's like me saying she's an ex for a reason - reasons we don't know and would never get a straightforward, honest reply. Our perception of our wrongs or someone else's varies greatly.

She also stated that this is something that has not happened before, the pushing, so his flaws could be leaving the toilet seat up, for all we know, she could have cheated on him, and they have split up.

He sounds perfectly well to parent children; there is nothing wrong with wanting your children to be respectful and obedient; after all, they are kids, are you suggesting that he lets his children do what the hell they like and treat him like crap? I'm sure you're not, because that would be bad parenting, and your name suggests you believe you're a good parent. I believe you're a good parent, but I also believe I wouldn't agree with all your parenting styles and decisions over the years, and that's fine, as I said, anyone who thinks they have no faults and are the world's best mom or dad is just laughable.

We still don't actually know what happened in that split second; we're getting a redacted version from the one who believes they have been wronged. For Dad to put his son outside and call Mom to collect, I'd say it's pretty serious in his eyes, and this is where our perception comes into play - he sees it as a big deal, while I might brush it off if it were my kids.

The OP is doing what she believes is right, but it also sounds like she's not entirely sure, as she's here asking for opinions or validation on whether what she's doing or has done is the correct way to approach the situation.

For me, she has to play the piggy in the middle, even if she doesn't like it. They are no longer a family unit, hence why this has dragged on for six weeks, as I'm sure if they all lived together, this would have been done and dusted on the same day.

In contrast to this story, my brother went through a bad separation. His daughter physically attacked him to the point that the police were called, and after the lies his daughter told the police, he was arrested. It was only when his son stepped in and told the police what had happened. He'd filmed some of it, and they released him, asking if he (my brother) wanted to press charges against his daughter. He declined, and he still had to leave his house that same day. If his son hadn't been there, he'd have probably been done for assault.

Do you think you might be projecting here? I mean all we can ever do on MN is discuss and offer suggestions according to what we are told. We are never going to hear both sides so any comments suggestions must be based on what we are told.

In no way, I know I'm not perfect, perhaps you are? But I'm also not bashing a parent (regardless of gender) like so many on here are doing with little to no actual information.

For all we know, Mom had an affair, split the family up, and told a pack of lies to her kids about Dad, now the son hates Dad, and it boiled over. But me saying that is ridiculous, almost as absurd as some of the utter tripe spouted on this post, because there's no real information and the OP hasn't pulled them all to one side to sort it out.

Dad sounds big on respect, and there is nothing wrong with that. Son sounds like a typical high-testosterone 14-year-old lad whose life has been turned upside down, and there's nothing wrong with that either. Mom needs to be in the middle to get them together and find that middle ground. And not being a unit, it's hard not to play sides.

You can't expect or let your children make adult decisions, and then not expect adult responses from them. An adult response would be to get together to iron it out.

there are people out there that I will NEVER get together with to iron stuff out while my arse points south....and some are relatives.

And I'm sure you have good reason. Like I say, I've seen people fall in and out of love with family and friends over nothing and some utter shite that I'd not overlook myself.

But here it sounds like Dad is missing his kids, kid(s) are missing Dad, but no one will bash it out.

You can't expect or let your children make adult decisions, and then not expect adult responses from them. An adult response would be to get together to iron it out.

@40YearOldDad I completely agree that you can’t expect a 14-year-old to make adult decisions, they’re not an adult! But, I don’t think that the OP can mediate in this situation. The parents are separated, presumably moving towards divorce, and they now have separate relationships with their children. The Dad needs to sort out his relationship with his son.

40YearOldDad · Today 14:48 - You can't expect or let your children make adult decisions, and then not expect adult responses from them. An adult response would be to get together to iron it out.

So why isn't the father responsible for adult behaviour then? Why is he ghosting his kids? Giving his kids the silent treatment for 6 weeks is not an appropriate adult response.