Mum friend making life hell

[buttongalore]

Please can I have some advice.

I have a mum friend who is displaying extreme signs of abnormal behaviour. We have a group of mums (there is six of us of us) but this particular mum bullies us and I’ve found out she’s made WhatsApp groups and singling out each of us to talk behind that persons back. She’s befriended the whole of the school mums and does these lavish parties to show she’s so cool but really she’s hot and cold, constantly swears, shouts at her kids, uses us for money if we go out, has told us her husband is in therapy (most likely because of her) and makes catty remarks to me about my hair and makeup (I’ve had brain surgery recently so I’m starting to take care of myself again). When I speak to the other mums in our group they say they are aware and she has a mental health condition so no point in addressing the behaviour. I feel it needs to be addressed because she’s using us. She will ask me to collect her child (but her child fights in the back of the car with my daughter), she asks me for lifts to the school (but she has her own car), she bitches about me to the other mums that apparently I don’t host enough playdates. We then hear that certain mums are cutting her off because they are clearly finding out what’s she like in the end. I believe she has narcissistic personality disorder because she wants constant attention from everyone and if you don’t comply with what she wants she turns nasty - there are stories of where she’s ruined people’s lives and turned other mums against each other. I don’t know what to do because my child is in the same class as her child and I don’t want my child to be shunned out because this mum hosts all the parties and she is the link to all the other mums. I have no idea how she’s managed to convince many that she’s normal. I feel scared to be around her. In the past I’ve left my daughter with her and my daughter has been upset when she’s come home. I now know to never leave my child alone with her. The other mums in the group say they are only having this connection with her for the sake of their children but in reality they are just scared and don’t want to speak up. She constantly hassles me and calls me for coffee meet ups and even challenges me on the group about why I haven’t done a playdate yet. I’m still recovering from brain surgery and obviously someone with narcissistic personality disorder has no sympathy for others. It’s causing me a great deal of anxiety because I have to watch other mums being bullied - we shouldn’t have to live like this

I would seriously question why others are conveying this information to you. The whole dynamic sounds really toxic and I think you need to step back from most of the parents in this group, not just the queen bee.

I get it that primary age seems to be really intense, with both children and parents, but as they get older it becomes less so. My youngest is just finishing his A levels, and I have only kept in touch with 1 or 2 parents I met at my DC’s schools. My DD doesn’t keep in touch with anyone from primary at all.

I have also come across people like the woman you describe. It can feel all consuming and the sense of moral injustice can be disheartening when you see people flocking round such an unpleasant character. But you really need to disengage somehow.

leave the group chat. Stop discussing her with other Mums. It’s not healthy and keeps her in your orbit (and you lose the moral high ground). Ask school if your DD can move classes from September. She’ll make new friends in no time.

I spent the last year of primary listening to podcasts at the school gate to avoid a particularly unpleasant individual. Or waiting in the car. I was also duped into giving a lift to another child for a while term (who also fought with mine) and I felt annoyed and railroaded into it. So I get it - but remember all things pass. It just doesn’t feel like it at the moment.

Exactly this.

It's absolutely bonkers for a group of grown adults to get so worked up about the idea of what one 5/6 year old girl will do.

This. Step away from the whole thing. Find new friends. It sounds like there are more than 20 boys in the class - maybe one of them would like a playdate? Or just to meet in the park.

‘What help do you want’ is an excellent question.

Ive been through school system with a woman like this but there were solutions and I was able to separate and spend time with individual mums that I and my daughter liked and with time it was resolved. I’m not sure what the answer is if the entire schools mum population are all hopelessly in thrall to one woman. I think I’d be really worried at my daughter mixing with an entire cohort that doesn’t include one single parent prepared to step away from this nonsense. That’s a terrible pool of people and awful modelling of resilience and independence

I’d cut contact slowly so hopefully she gets the message.

BUT if you’ve had recent brain surgery should you be driving ? I had to stop for 6 months

Oh dear OP,I think the whole situation is awful & I definitely feel sorry you are going through this & wish you good health post surgery.

The point I made earlier, although not one of the ones that criticised you, was simply to give a different perspective on 'playground' friendships. I've seen it happen so often where out of a class of 30 pupils, six women or more with daughters begin to congregate together & this would be the 'group' until their children left primary school. The children would inevitably be expected to be friends with each others children throughout with no regard as to whether they were compatible or not.

My experience told me it never ends well. It can cause so much drama when one of the group sadly too often falls out with another member of the group or the children fall out, as they do. This usually results in everyone taking sides depending on how close they are.

I kept all my school 'acquaintances' at a distance with the exception of the normal drop off & collection from parties where I made polite conversation then left. I found those who took this approach never had to suffer what you are presently going through and they were the majority. I also allowed my children to pick their own friends. My relationship with their parents wasn't a consideration as long as they were responsible and kind to my children and I knew them well enough to allow play dates if they were invited. Again this was just my approach and not a judgement of anyone else's. It worked for me and many others during the school years.

But why not just tough all of that out?

You're trying to ensure everyone likes you. That's not necessary or possible. You win some and you lose some.

If she addresses you in a nasty way at the school gates, just pull your head back slightly in a gesture of surprise, and say, "Nobody speaks to me like that." Or, nice and clearly, "I'm sorry you feel that way." Stand up for yourself! Others will feel braver if you do.

If you get wind of nasty comments being made behind your back or the backs of others on a WhatsApp group, you can simply send a comment to the effect that you consider that nasty behaviour and you won't be a party to it. And surely you can identify some decent women and make friends with them, ignoring the queen bee and the sycophants?

You seem to have no belief whatsoever in your own likeability and far too much belief in the power of other people.

I know MN doesn’t like the comparison but blimey she sounds just like Amanda from Motherland!!

@4kids3pets What assumptions have I made? About her mental health issues? She’s told us openly she’s in therapy and seeing a clinical psychologist. She’s told us about her childhood issues. As lay people with common sense we can see there is a very obvious mental health problem here. It’s not hard to research and see. No one is being unkind. We would much rather she get the help she needs and leave us alone

@BlondiePortz Yes everyone works but this mum didn’t work for years and was dismissed from her last job. She’s recently got a part time job as an administrator but still finds the time to harass and bully us in between. I’ve been signed off work due to my recovery. The partners are not happy but what exactly can they do, go and challenge her?

@Devonshiregal My husband is concerned she could try and take our kids from school/nursery. She is unhinged. She said to me recently I will look for your boy in the nursery. I was so shocked. What does she mean, she’s going to go the nursery and watch him through the garden?? She’s got no reason to go there. I was terrified. I’ve informed the nursery today that under no circumstances can anyone collect him without my permission even if they state they know me! We have no idea what she’s capable of

My daughter will never be besties with hers because they just don’t get on. The other girl is acting up because of everything she sees and witnesses with her mum. It must be so traumatising for them. No we will never move. We moved to this area before this crazy mum arrived. I’m not going to be chased out. Never

@loropianalover No sorry I wouldn’t call it over the top. It’s constant harassment. I am sane, there’s nothing wrong with me apart from my brain surgery recovery. I’m not sure what you are insinuating

You can report your concerns to the police if you think your children are at risk

@CoralCrow What do you mean by they’re not all ugly? Oh I am back mate

@WiddlinDiddlin So today she’s invited us for breakfast on 16th and I was thinking nooo how do I get out of this. My friend straight away gave an excuse, then I followed and now the other one is saying I’ve already said yes so I will have to make an excuse nearer the time. We need to show her that we are consistent and not going to give in. The atmosphere around her is so bad. You never know what’s she’s going to do

@DreamTheMoors They are very mean on here aren’t they? I thought as woman we should be uplifting one another. Clearly not. You’re right I need to ignore her texts, calls and social media bitchy memes. I will be honest I’m just so worried what she will do and how it could affect my child. I don’t let many things phase me but this has for reason because it involves my child

@Fraaances Believe me I’ve been ready to fight back but is it wise to do whilst recovering from major surgery? I definitely want to say you choose who you want to invite to things but I’m not allowed to? If I don’t include you, you will slag me off to everyone at the gate!! I don’t understand either how these mums can be so fickle. Her “best friend” who she stands at the gate with has bipolar and they are feeding negativity off each other. She also goes round saying this mum is my best friend and that mum is my best friend. She’s highly delusional

@TheCountofMountingCrispBags Yes it almost feels like a cult. It’s bizarre. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s pretty simple in terms of how I’ve explained it. She’s basically running the show with lavish and exclusive parties. The mums are loving this (not our circle) but they don’t know what she’s doing behind their backs. Well maybe they do as people talk but one thing this crazy mum did say is she doesn’t mix her circles. Very clever. So she has mum’s from year 1 which is us, mums from her sons nursery, then mums in other year groups she’s befriended, mums on the street!!, and then friends of other mums she’s befriended. She goes around asking everyone for their numbers and instagram accounts. She did it to me on the very first time I met her at a school welcome meeting. I was wary of her from the beggining. Who asks for someone’s number within 10 minutes of meeting them? But I did because our girls will be in the same class apparently and I felt she targeted me because I’m the same skin colour as her (easier to befriend) I must have mug written all over me. No you’re right fathers wouldn’t put up with this crap at all

Sorry OP but it all reads like an extravagant fantasy. Its totally in your power to stop all this nonsense. Are you seriously saying you think she will "take your kids"? If you are serious you need to report her to the police and SS and get a non-mol against her. Also, if she is as mental as you say she is her kids are probably not safe so what are you doing about that?

But I get an impression you are hugely enjoying all this. You dont live in a tiny village, you are in London - there is a huge choice of who to hang out with. You, however, choose to hang out with this person, gossip about her non stop and let her occupy your head entirely. Ask yourself - are you addicted to drama? Will your life be boring without her?

In any case, wishing you a speedy recovery - but please remember, you are an adult. If you want anything to change you need to act like one.

I hope you are recovering from your surgery.

This situation sounds very strange and the power this woman holds over the other parents is very odd. If so many of you have observed her two-faced bitching about others then the typical response would be to distance yourselves from her as much as possible.

You do seem to be posting contradictory statements about "never going" to her parties, "avoiding them like the plague" and yet "I do attend some of them".

If you don't want to spend time with this woman then don't. You work, you have kids, presumably the kids have hobbies, hopefully you do too, friends and relatives to visit. Just be busy and vague with her. You can still invite her daughter over if your daughter is friends with her. And of course you can host a playmate with one or two other kids and not have to invite her.

If she "pulls you up" on not having hosted a party or bigger group, you just say "I'm recovering from brain surgery and not up to hosting big gatherings yet".

You do need to find a backbone. If her daughter starts bullying yours then you tell the school and work with them to resolve it, have them moved to separate classes etc.

@localnotail I am on the outskirts of London not inner at all and we live in a lovely town. Your comment doesn’t even warrant a response. I HATE drama with a passion. I worked so so hard to establish peace in my life after battling the most painful condition and watching my kids pine for me when I was bedridden. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Why is it my duty to report anything about her kids? Everyone knows, no one is doing anything. All scared of repercussions and comebacks. I have to establish peace for my family - like I said I need to prioritise functioning fully as a mum again because I couldn’t do that last year

Strange as it might sound I actually have come across someone who sounds very similar to your narcissistic mum “friend”. She was one of the other mums at my children’s primary school (a small rural independent school) and she too used to organise parties for the mums: drinks and canapés in the garden, dinner parties in her home, mums’ nights out to expensive restaurants (always expensive ones) etc. The mums lapped it up but little by little we all came to realise that there was something wrong with her - she liked to cause trouble between other mothers and even between the children. She used to have coffee catch ups pretty much every day of the week with mother after mother (lots of sahms) spreading gossip and sowing discord between them. She would also organise events for the children (bbqs, Easter egg hunt, soft play parties etc) and exclude the kids of mums who had crossed her in any way. She got heavily involved in the PTA and put enormous effort into things like the Christmas fete whilst practically ignoring her own children (who were problematic to say the least). Really, I’m just skimming the surface with this description: the woman was nuts. She sounds a lot like the mum you’re dealing with. My advice (having been there myself) is to keep reminding yourself that this situation is temporary- the primary school years don’t last forever. My mad mum “friend” has long been consigned to history and from the distance of 15 years or more it is hard to remember why I found her behaviour so stressful and, yes, frightening. Keep it in perspective. Secondly, keep your distance as far as possible. Try and ignore her rude comments. You have been seriously ill and it is fine for you not to organise play dates etc in the circumstances. You are allowed to wear makeup if you want to etc She is rude and ignorant and anyone with any sense can see this. I do not think you should worry about her so much. So, thirdly, stop thinking about her; find better ways to fill your time. You should not let her get to you. It’s not healthy to obsess about someone this much. By doing that you are letting her win.

OP,I still wish you well although I am genuinely interested in your thoughts regarding my post at 12.50pm today. It is a totally different take on school playground mum 'groups' and one that works for many.

Sadly if it wasn't this woman causing discord it would probably be someone else & on it would go. We often make our own beds in these situations when it's actually easy to distance yourself & not care about what others are saying or doing because we're not overly involved with any of them.

@buttongalore - I wonder if your vulnerability is making you think she has more power than the reality. Other mums are saying no to the breakfast. My advice would be to suggest a coffee morning with them on the same day. If she kicks off at school you have plenty of witnesses and you can call the police.

Just ignore her, OP. Grey rock.

And tell your friends you won't be engaging in the endless chats about her. It sounds like everyone is getting carried away.

And yet you did respond? First of all, I wish you again a speedy recovery and good health.

Secondly, we live in a law abiding country. No one can hurt you just like that, and go unpunished. You need to stop giving this person all the power. Like I said, if you think she will do something, you need to report her. With regards to her children, are you seriously saying you would not do anything if you knew they are being hurt???

My advice, as of many people on here, would be to block and ignore her and any other person who is in touch with her.

Yep. Grey rock, proceed with other relationships as normal and if anything comes up about her politely decline, disengage, stay out of gossip. No sense in confronting her or calling her out. Just stay out of it and remain blissfully ignorant. Protect your peace. You can arrange play dates with other kids separately.

@Luv2luv9 Thank you for your response. I completely agree with you. The WhatsApp group of 6 has become toxic but not through any of us, only by the sole crazy woman who acts like the ringleader of the group. She has to arrange everything, she barks orders to us, and she has to be included in every decision or conversation. The rest of us have said always steer the conversation away from her bitching but she doesn’t stop or get the message. I really want to say to the others let’s stop this WhatsApp group and talk individually if needs be. I can tell no one enjoys it. The thing is if I leave I don’t want to lose the rest of the mums because my fear is they will just stick with it - they are super scared and won’t admit. We are talking about women in their mid thirties. It’s astonishing yes but those on here who have said this sounds fantastical, or something out of a movie are completely out of touch. These things do happen in real life. Yes you are right, the children are being forced to be friends but it’s already causing issues because they have besties outside of this group. There have always been fallings out and it’s always with this crazy mums daughter. She’s always at the centre of it. It’s not the child’s fault, she’s severely affected by her home life. Deep down she’s a very sweet girl. I feel terribly terribly sorry for her and her 4 year old brother

OP you say these things do happen in real life - of course they do - but you are all allowing it. You are not leaving a WhatsApp group due to fear (???), and you are terrified that she is watching your son through the nursery gates and is going to try take him? These are not normal thoughts OP and I stand by my comment that you should speak to your GP regarding your state of mind and your surgery recovery. You have different needs right now and need to remove yourself from all of this, you are playing into it.

You made this thread asking for advice and the resounding answer you’ve been given is to remove yourself. You don’t need to ‘speak with the other mums’ or liaise with them about leaving WhatsApp groups or speaking individually - you just need to stop. Mute and archive the chats, stop answering the phone to her, put a big smile on your face at the school gates and move on with your life.

I think for all your concerns and reservations, the fact that you say the children are now being affected by it and being forced to be friends, would be the point at which I would step away.
in a choice between my child missing out on class group gatherings and being part of a toxic friendship group driven by the mothers, I would definitely chose her missing the class based socializing

The thing is if I leave (the WhatsApp group) I don’t want to lose the rest of the mums because my fear is they will just stick with it - they are super scared and won’t admit.

Why are you so afraid you will lose them OP?
As you already said, you can talk to each of them privately to maintain relationships.
You expect them to leave the group but won’t do it yourself. Lead by example!
You also say you never go to any of her parties, but in the next breath say you do go to some. And that you have agreed to go to the brunch. Tell her you can’t go.
You even call her a mum friend when you describe her as a scarily dreadful bully who might kidnap your child from nursery.

In order to put this right for yourself and give yourself a fair chance at your recovery you need to take yourself right out of the inner drama sphere.

It’s easy to do. If you really want to. Just step away from her in every way.

I’m beginning to wonder if you actually enjoy the drama. And the extravagant parties. Or is she like a drug and you are addicted?

Remove yourself from the WhatsApp group. No need to talk about it, just do it.
If the others don’t follow suit that’s their choice …they aren’t as scared as you make out.
Say a quiet and polite no thankyou to everything she asks of you including your presence at her parties and don’t talk about that to the others either.
Be glad when she cuts you out …it’s what you are aiming for.
Stop caring what she and her inner circle are saying and doing.
Do your own thing with one or two of the mums you like and whose children your DC likes.
Stop thinking about what you are missing out on. It’s nothing but stress.
Stop trying to be responsible for the fear she creates in others…it’s none of your business. Let them handle themselves. You aren’t their mother.

If you don’t want to do any of that then that’s fine. But you have to stop creating the drama around it all which only elevates her further up the pedestal you all have her on.