Mum friend making life hell

[buttongalore]

Please can I have some advice.

I have a mum friend who is displaying extreme signs of abnormal behaviour. We have a group of mums (there is six of us of us) but this particular mum bullies us and I’ve found out she’s made WhatsApp groups and singling out each of us to talk behind that persons back. She’s befriended the whole of the school mums and does these lavish parties to show she’s so cool but really she’s hot and cold, constantly swears, shouts at her kids, uses us for money if we go out, has told us her husband is in therapy (most likely because of her) and makes catty remarks to me about my hair and makeup (I’ve had brain surgery recently so I’m starting to take care of myself again). When I speak to the other mums in our group they say they are aware and she has a mental health condition so no point in addressing the behaviour. I feel it needs to be addressed because she’s using us. She will ask me to collect her child (but her child fights in the back of the car with my daughter), she asks me for lifts to the school (but she has her own car), she bitches about me to the other mums that apparently I don’t host enough playdates. We then hear that certain mums are cutting her off because they are clearly finding out what’s she like in the end. I believe she has narcissistic personality disorder because she wants constant attention from everyone and if you don’t comply with what she wants she turns nasty - there are stories of where she’s ruined people’s lives and turned other mums against each other. I don’t know what to do because my child is in the same class as her child and I don’t want my child to be shunned out because this mum hosts all the parties and she is the link to all the other mums. I have no idea how she’s managed to convince many that she’s normal. I feel scared to be around her. In the past I’ve left my daughter with her and my daughter has been upset when she’s come home. I now know to never leave my child alone with her. The other mums in the group say they are only having this connection with her for the sake of their children but in reality they are just scared and don’t want to speak up. She constantly hassles me and calls me for coffee meet ups and even challenges me on the group about why I haven’t done a playdate yet. I’m still recovering from brain surgery and obviously someone with narcissistic personality disorder has no sympathy for others. It’s causing me a great deal of anxiety because I have to watch other mums being bullied - we shouldn’t have to live like this

It reads very much as though you don't like this woman, but don't want to stop being part of her circle because there is social capital in being her friend.

Yes and furthermore, it sounds like op is trying to displace her as Queen bee with all the gossiping and knifing

I think you and all the other mums should move to a different school. Only way out.

Stop allowing one person to have so much power & influence over you; it all sounds very childish & playground type behaviour to me. Just disengage & grow up

Agree that you can’t change anyone else’s behaviour so you need to massively distance yourself from this person and if necessary the other mums. Quite honestly I’d rather not have any mum friends than ones like these.

Stop the lifts, play dates and going to the parties. Use every excuse, your health, busy life, appointments etc and stand firm.

Deal with anything related to your child later. I can’t believe they won’t have any friends. Just see the kids you want to see. But you need to get the boundaries in place no matter how hard.

This is why I don’t make friends with Mum’s in the school playground. I just politely say hello, see them at the odd party and keep my distance. Life is hard enough, can’t be arsed with all that.

I think you and the other mums need to flee the country. Perhaps a different continent.

Could you step back a bit? I always saw school mums as acquaintances that I was nice to, but not overly involved with. Over the years I got to know and like a few of them through sports fixtures but that was it. My children’s social lives didn’t suffer because they made their own friends. There is a lot be said for being a bit detached.

You don't have to 'have a tie' with someone simply because your kids are in the same class. Don't be ridiculous.

What exactly are the 'repercussions' - why are you giving this person any power at all?

Being afraid that someone's daughter will bully your daughter if you don't behave in a certain way is frankly ridiculous behaviour for a group of adults.

I think you need a hobby or a job if you are so invested in somone you don't want to be invested in

Why do you care so much? Just say ‘no’ to everything she asks and ignore the rest of the stuff she says/does.

You absolutely can challenge a person with mental health problems.
Why are you all so fearful of what would happen to your daughters? If the majority of you are good people and parents then your daughters should be nice girls who will play well with each other? How is a fall out with the parent of 1 5/6 year old going to impact your children? Even if you were all nasty bullies, and tbh, there probably is more than 1 bully for this toxic dynamic to have developed, 5/6 year old children in school are unlikely to care at all or be influenced by what's going on amongst their parents. They will just carry on being friends and playing together at school.

What help is it that you want?

There is no magic formula for someone to share to make her disappear.

The only thing you can do is to change your response to her.

If you cut this woman off, the biggest issue seems to be that she won't invite your daughter to parties and that she might say some things about you to other mums.

Your child will not die with disappointment if she doesn't get an invite to this woman's next birthday party. Life is full of disappointments and you just explain to her that you aren't always invited to every party. It's a life lesson that everyone has to learn at some point.

And she is already saying things about you and other people to groups of other mums so who cares? Clearly some people already choose to avoid her and they seem to be surviving.

If her child genuinely was bullying your child in school, then you can bring it up with a teacher as you would with any bullying but it seems you merely fear that this might happen one day.

You aren't obliged to be part of some massive mum friend gang at the school gates. Clearly the fathers manage this and aren't bothered by this apparent drama.
You can just turn up at the right time, collect child and leave immediately. If you are in a state school in London, surely there are plenty of full time working mothers, people from diverse backgrounds, or foster parents/grandparents, child minders who do pick up that aren't all part of this apparent mum gang anyway? And yet they survive.

It's situations like this that make me happy my true friends were all outside of the school playground. There were 'cliques' who looked like & professed to be great friends & stood in a big groups in the playground but a lot were envious of each other if for example one of the children excelled in the classroom, or in music, art & sports. If a child excelled at most of the school curriculum thats another story.

My approach didn't make my children less popular. They were included in parties etc but I just dropped them off with polite conversation then collected them with no fuss or too much engagement. My children got to pick their own friends rather than a forced situation because certain mothers became friends. It made for a less stressful life during the school years. Interestingly we survived without WhatsApp groups too where inevitably there are people either left out,not welcome or acting like the woman in OPs situation.

Lol at not being able to challenge someone with MH problems.
And you have roped your DH into it? How do you have so much time?

Exactly & the point I just made.

Gosh, it all sounds a little exciting tbh. I didn’t realise primary schools had so much drama and this woman sounds like Amanda from Motherland 😂 is it terrible that I want to go to these posh parties with the free booze? They can bitch about me as much as they want, I’ll take any sort of social life these days.

But honestly OP, you’ve dealt with something really tough recently and most of us would simply take a big step back and let any comments or bitchiness wash over us because who cares what random people think? Your DD won’t be bullied by her daughter. They are 5 and if anything does happen you go straight to the school to deal with it.

I’ve had a similar experience I think unless you have been in that situation it’s quite difficult to understand how insidious it is.

My mum friend was like the puppet master for my son’s year. It sounds crazy now but all play dates and party’s seemed to go through her. It felt like she was always pulling everyone’s strings. She would manufacture falling outs and then everyone would side with her and the other person would be ostracised.

it became clear that she actually didn’t have a lot else going on with her life or really any friends outside the school. I think I reached the end of my tether with it all when she had a full on meltdown in the street because someone else had dared organise “mum drinks”.

i just stopped engaging with it all. To be honest that initial period was really hard and awkward but it needed to happen my life is much more stress free without her in it.
i lost friends at the time and it did effect my sons invites to party’s for a bit.

after a while more people seemed to peel away from her and then her power was gone.

in a few years time the kids choose their own friends anyway and the parents dynamics don’t really count for much as party’s tend to be drop off anyway.

sorry for the long message but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Focus on your life outside the school gates for the time being.

My husband is ready to challenge her but you can’t do that when someone has mental health issues

Er, yes, you can.

I personally would ask to put my child into a different class now why she is young. Hopefully a better group of mums in a new class. This will continue right up to high school. Or better still, move schools.

She obviously makes you feel uncomfortable with her words but I would expect that each time she puts people down and bitches, others are looking at her in a bad light, not her focus. Let her say whatever she wants and don't respond. Don't be dragged in to any lifts etc and just say 'no, I can't' but don't make any excuses of why, just say it's not possible. If you're absolutely sure others are feeling as you do, message them separately to make them aware that you will ignore, avoid etc and suggest they do the same. All she sounds like is a manipulator with a big mouth and without enablers she'll have to back off.

Whatever advice you're getting, you're saying you can't do this or that, but without changing something and biting the bullet nothing will ever change, so unfortunately the ball is in your court and you need to alter the way you are responding because she won't. Be brave and set the ball rolling, if not for your sake then your daughter's at least. Don't allow this.

I would suggest that you try to get to know some of the 24 sets of parents of the other children in the class who aren't part of the toxic whatsapp group of 6.

I would also advise you to be careful who you talk to. Meeting up with others to discuss her, and put it in chats could look as though you are the problem if it all comes out.

I don't understand all this mum friends malarkey, all the power games etc. I've got three brothers. Our mum never had fake "mum friends", there was never any power games, any of this absolute crap between parents being bitchy. We had our own mates, and there was no requirement for our parents to be friends or play games like this or get so enmeshed in everyone else's lives and families. We'd have a party, mums would drop their kids off or come round, and we would go to parties. That would be it.

Well you have 2 choices really, either back off or carry on as you are. Which will you choose?

Totally agree @NerdyNancy I’ve never read such a load of absolute rubbish, what happened to just taking your kids to school and then just going home, all that gossip, WhatsApp drama, it’s so childish and ridiculous, it’s like some third or fourth rate soap opera.
Its time to grow up OP, stop living in this ridiculous scenario, teach your child to have some respect by respecting yourself and your own boundaries.

Sorry to hear you’re dealing with this while recovering from major surgery.

Give her a very wide berth. If she invites you to her home, politely say you can’t make it. If she asks you to collect her DD, politely say you can’t.

Come off WhatsApp groups. If you’re friends with any of the other mums, you can text them directly.

Don’t stand near her at the school gate. If she comes over to you, be polite but quickly move away.

If your DD asks to go to their house, say you’d prefer not to. If your DD asks why, say you don’t want to be friends with the mum as she’s a bit much. But emphasise your DD should be friendly to her friend in school and clubs.

Don’t concern yourself with what condition the woman may have. That’s none of your business. All you need to be concerned with is not doing anything you feel uncomfortable with and setting clear boundaries.