She insists it wasn't cheating, but it still really hurt and I am struggling move on. Help!

[BoldRobin]

I will try and keep this brief. We are currently "happy" and working on our marriage after both getting a taste of losing each other after separating for 2.5 months last year (her decision). Our marriage was complicated, financial infidelity on her part, and a lack of resolution at the time lead to conflict, depression (on her part) and we split. It only last just over 2 months before we eventually worked on things. It has been 6 months we have been "back together". I love her, she is the mother of my kids, my wife and we have been together for over 20 years. I never wanted the separation, she knew all the way through I was ready to work on things. I feel this is important...

When we had the talk about reconciling, I asked her "tell me nothing happened with anyone whilst we were apart" (she was going to friends parties etc) and she immediately confessed to getting drunk and snogging her friends brother at her friends party, just 3 nights prior. She said it was horrible, she instantly felt remorse and found it to just be happening after chatting to him at the bar for a minute or two. She says it was at the end of the night, she pulled away and that was that. She insists (she would) that it was 2 seconds of a mistake, was disgusting and that it "wasn't a long passionate kiss", and reminded me that "we weren't together".

My problems are as follows. Number 1, I can't get it out of my mind, even after 6 months, and things have been good. Is there something wrong with me? The way I see it, how could she? If she means what she says now and she never felt right apart, how could she do that? At the time I was looking after our children whilst she was doing this, heartbroken to put it bluntly. Secondly, I feel guilty for doubting it was "just a kiss". Her language I feel is pure minimalisation, and I dread something more happening. I dread it because it would destroy us, and I couldn't forgive it, so I have buried it due to lack of evidence, benefit of the doubt and a deep down disbelief in her ability to go that far, no matter how drunk.

What bothers me is how it happened? For two people to snog, they have to be close enough. What signals did she give? What did she say? What did he say? Did she really just walk away and carry on dancing with her friends after as she claims? Why tell me if it was "just a horrible 2 second thing" and we weren't together?

I am terrified she has been dishonest. Even if she hasn't it still hurts me to picture my wife kissing another guy like that, drunk or not. Do you think its cheating? I was emotionally invested in us, and she knows I was. She says it meant nothing and she thought we might never get back together. She admits to being ridiculous and wreckless in the moment and is remorseful.

She says she wants us to work and HAS made great effort in the relationship since we got back together, everything is really strong, its just this niggling thing. She says being apart made her realise how good we are and how theres so much worth fighting for. She tells me she loves me and never wants to separate again and has committed to better communication and effort.

Am I pathetic? Should I drop it? Should it matter? I need to stop ruminating. I don't want us to end, but I need the doubt to stop. Its hounding me.

Is my gut feeling that more happened (despite her insisting it didn't and "I wouldn't have done that so soon into a separation after 20 years, what do you take me for?!", or am I just struggling with trust after the financial infidelity and being dumped? I just feel like I am on shaky ground. I love the woman and I want it to work so badly.

How did the discovery about gambling happen? Did you have inklings , asked questions, she denied it and finally came clean in dribs and drabs with a final monumental admission of addiction and 50k gone?

Or did she come to you by herself , all cards on the table, open and honest about everything?

She pretty much cracked one day and just told me about it saying she couldn't handle the deceit anymore. I had literally zero inkling whatsoever, which made me doubt myself massively.

So this is why I wrote what I did above. I don’t think ‘the kiss’ is the actual issue.

It’s the fact that you have lost trust both in her - she lied over a considerable period of time before cracking - and also in yourself. By focusing on the kiss you are displacing your feelings and sense of betrayal. I truly think you need to seek counselling - alone and together - in order to move forward.

I'd say this indicates she's unlikely to lie about the kiss.

You know, your completely understandable anger is causing you a tonne of pain. It's so familiar to me that i can almost share it with you. Can i ask what you do to manager that anger? My wife for example does Yoga, and to me that makes no sense. All bloody gentle and controlled. I kick the living shit out of a tractor tyre we have hanging from a tree in the garden. We are all different. Do you have an outlet? It's so important, because it will devour you, if it has no way to come out. You do come across as a bit tortured. I don't think you'll ever be at peace with yourself without some kind of daily practice to manage what boils away inside. In my early twenties i spent some time in prison. Upon release i was a red hot poker of anger. Now in my fifties, i don't know what you'd have to do to get me genuinely angry. Its not a brag, its been a process and i've had a lot of help. Put your focus there, as much as on your relationship, because you wont find success in one, without taking control of the other.

I am in CBT weekly for CPTSD from some very historical prolonged trauma. I learn anger coping strategies here. I also walk, listen to heavy metal. Talk. I am really quite good at managing my anger these days, I honestly am. I am less angry, and just more hurt and I am tired of feeling like a pathetic victim. It's exhausting

Honestly OP as someone who has had many a drunken kiss, I can assure you they mean nothing! I've had your standard level drunken kiss, where yeah there's a bit of flirting, but that's only because flirting is fun! It's not because of any feelings, or anything of meaning whatsoever. Then I've had some really really drunk drunken kisses, where it seriously just comes out of nowhere lol. No flirting, no nothing. You're just really drunk. You kiss all of a sudden. That's it, all over.

Maybe it would be helpful for you to consider that not everyone finds a kiss an amazingly intimate, emotionally connected act of deep love and commitment.
I don't even know the woman, but if she says it was just a drunken kiss that meant nothing, I completely believe her.

Ha, i can definitely get with a long walk and heavy metal! I can only say for myself but with me hurt and angry are pretty much bed fellows. Yeah, strong emotions are exhausting, i can only say that they wear out over time. I imagine its not the kiss itself that cuts so deep, because rationally thats just skin and saliva.. It's the thought of intensity and passion that raises your jealousy. But you dont know that it was intense and passionate. It may have been drunken, and awkward, without much in the way of desire. Worry, and rumination, dwelling on something and it taking over your brain, at the end of the day, it's a misuse of your imagination. Try not to think about it. I know that's like telling a smoker to "try not smoking", but with persisitance, if you choose not to entertain the thoughts over time, you'll get past this.

Thanks so much. Honestly

Absolutely a kiss can mean nothing

What were your feelings about yourself when all this came out? If they were very negative (fool,stupid, blind ,weak etc)and turned a lot of your anger and frustration at yourself so you wouldn’t blame her and could start over , they might be spilling over now over the kiss. Just remember, they are YOUR feelings not her thoughts and feelings. It’s very possible you’re attributing all these feelings and motivations to her, because that’s who/what you think you are.

Imagine if you are Xavier Barden, watchjng Penelope Cruz (his wife) snogging some actor in a film. Do you think he gets jealous? I doubt it, because they're acting, and there's no real passion in it. You're projecting your own meaning of a kiss with your wife, into their kiss, then beating yourself up with it. It's a really normal human reaction. And booze makes people do all sorts of crap they wouldn't have done otherwise. As a teen, i once smashed the lights on someones car when pissed. A completely random car on a street, i was just walking home pissed. What a dickhead!

Nothing will help here but counselling. She didn't do anything wrong.

The kiss imo is a kind of lightening rod attracting all your feelings of angel ( which are very visible tbh) - you say wtte you were naive or blind or a fool for assuming and believing all was great/anger at what was so bad (about you) that she turned to gambling. And anger that you “gave” her a separation after being amazingly supportive (which she hasn’t thanked you for, she already owes you for that) and what did she do? Take the first opportunity to annoy someone- hardly a sign of you being in her thoughts never mind of appreciating you. Then angry because she’s come back and is blithely “making an effort” without realising how fucking much she owes you and how decent you’ve been the whole time you’ve been married. and the. She thinks the kiss can be tossed off as “nothing” when it was a cheap tawdry betrayal of your intimacy and love.

or something like that.

until you acknowledge your rage towards her the kiss will keep attracting your thoughts and keep you stuck.

I’m sorry op but you are almost certainly not being told the truth.
You are being told the least amount possible to lesson any impact. Women generally minimise more than men do.
She almost certainly slept with the other man.

Women generally minimise more than men

Nonsense

Absolute bullshit.

Well that will wind the insecure, jealous op up won't it?

Ridiculous statement.

It doesn't matter what she said, and it hasn't wound me up. I'm not that fragile.

I simply don't and never will believe this woman I know more than anyone would have done that. Some stranger on the Web with zero context ain't going to have me questioning my wife.

I don't believe there was more, but the kiss was enough anyway.

Oops my mistake. You just sound "that fragile" that's all.

See, what was the point of this comment? Idiot.

Ignore the wind-up merchants, @BoldRobin

There's an old CS Lewis quote, I don't know whether it will mean anything for you...

"I sat with my anger long enough until she told me her real name was grief"

I find it interesting you call the gambling debt infidelity. I’d call that the mother of all deceit.

No way does a kiss as an adult “just happen”, there was a build up to that moment, with a person your wife knew.

Blunt instrument, call it a day. You’re carrying far too much shit for the marriage to have a fighting chance.

God knows what the effect is on your kids being caught in this.

Some things simply cannot be saved.

Use your counselling for this, OP. What better use could there be for it, and anyway there will likely be some relationship between this situation and whatever you are talking about at the moment. You won't get anywhere mulling things over with strangers on Mumsnet.

That comes across as a very fragile response. As does your opening statement, tbh - and I don't mean that critically. You weren't insulted, the person you replied to was wanting to protect you. And you go off on them like you're irritated, if not angry.

I don't think there's anything wrong with telling your wife how madly jealous you still are about her kissing someone. AS long as it's just a statement about your feelings and there's no attempt to judge, guilt trip or blame her. I'm guessing you might find the second part very difficult. But it could clear the air and get it out of your system, where it seems to be stewing and simmering.