She insists it wasn't cheating, but it still really hurt and I am struggling move on. Help!

[BoldRobin]

I will try and keep this brief. We are currently "happy" and working on our marriage after both getting a taste of losing each other after separating for 2.5 months last year (her decision). Our marriage was complicated, financial infidelity on her part, and a lack of resolution at the time lead to conflict, depression (on her part) and we split. It only last just over 2 months before we eventually worked on things. It has been 6 months we have been "back together". I love her, she is the mother of my kids, my wife and we have been together for over 20 years. I never wanted the separation, she knew all the way through I was ready to work on things. I feel this is important...

When we had the talk about reconciling, I asked her "tell me nothing happened with anyone whilst we were apart" (she was going to friends parties etc) and she immediately confessed to getting drunk and snogging her friends brother at her friends party, just 3 nights prior. She said it was horrible, she instantly felt remorse and found it to just be happening after chatting to him at the bar for a minute or two. She says it was at the end of the night, she pulled away and that was that. She insists (she would) that it was 2 seconds of a mistake, was disgusting and that it "wasn't a long passionate kiss", and reminded me that "we weren't together".

My problems are as follows. Number 1, I can't get it out of my mind, even after 6 months, and things have been good. Is there something wrong with me? The way I see it, how could she? If she means what she says now and she never felt right apart, how could she do that? At the time I was looking after our children whilst she was doing this, heartbroken to put it bluntly. Secondly, I feel guilty for doubting it was "just a kiss". Her language I feel is pure minimalisation, and I dread something more happening. I dread it because it would destroy us, and I couldn't forgive it, so I have buried it due to lack of evidence, benefit of the doubt and a deep down disbelief in her ability to go that far, no matter how drunk.

What bothers me is how it happened? For two people to snog, they have to be close enough. What signals did she give? What did she say? What did he say? Did she really just walk away and carry on dancing with her friends after as she claims? Why tell me if it was "just a horrible 2 second thing" and we weren't together?

I am terrified she has been dishonest. Even if she hasn't it still hurts me to picture my wife kissing another guy like that, drunk or not. Do you think its cheating? I was emotionally invested in us, and she knows I was. She says it meant nothing and she thought we might never get back together. She admits to being ridiculous and wreckless in the moment and is remorseful.

She says she wants us to work and HAS made great effort in the relationship since we got back together, everything is really strong, its just this niggling thing. She says being apart made her realise how good we are and how theres so much worth fighting for. She tells me she loves me and never wants to separate again and has committed to better communication and effort.

Am I pathetic? Should I drop it? Should it matter? I need to stop ruminating. I don't want us to end, but I need the doubt to stop. Its hounding me.

Is my gut feeling that more happened (despite her insisting it didn't and "I wouldn't have done that so soon into a separation after 20 years, what do you take me for?!", or am I just struggling with trust after the financial infidelity and being dumped? I just feel like I am on shaky ground. I love the woman and I want it to work so badly.

Not being "wrong" doesn't mean it's not hurtful, especially to someone who loves her and doesn't want to be apart. It had been 8 weeks, together for 20 years. People can't just switch off their feelings. I am not saying she committed a crime, but it stings

I have helped her more than you would believe. You don't know anything about me or us or the 18 months we have had outside of my comments here. We have been through hell with it, both of us.

Noted. Would you say some of the comments from women have been rude to me? I'm guessing not. Some incredible double standards here. I've come here with a problem I admitted from the very start I was unhealthily insecure and came for a different perspective. I've stuck up for myself when people have been rude or ridiculous, and that makes me a rude abusive emotionally unstable man? Ok. I'll make a note of that and make sure I am a doormat from now on as to not risk being a controlling abuser.

I can see why you feel hurt. Definitely talk about it in therapy.
I think you get past it with giving yourself time & focusing on the outcome. She did kiss someone else but she chose you & is working hard to fix the marriage. You are the one she wants to be with & it’s important that you allow yourself to feel it but forgive to move on.

Why am I being vilified for things having affected me? Some of them major things? Are men not allowed feelings without being labelled self obsessed or controlling? Am I losing my mind here? She lost 50k of our money, and then snogged a guy within weeks of that very issue breaking our relationship to ash. I'm not supposed to "feel" anything as that would be self interested? I've been through an emotional roller coaster. Honestly it's unbelievable here. What am I supposed to do?!

I have supported her through the gambling, many would just leave.

I am working through the stupid insecurity around the kiss as best I can.

There is a severe lack of understanding and empathy here, it seems it extends only to my wife but I should have expected that coming here.

But what do you expect people to say? It's not your wife asking for opinions here. You are asking for help with your own feelings and people are suggesting that the way you are viewing it is not healthy for YOU. How can you ever be happy in a relationship when you have so much anger and resentment towards her? Does it help if I say I think what she did sounds disgusting-because honestly it does! BUT you want to continue this marriage and you say you love her. I'm sure there are many reasons people would walk away from a marriage but this is something you have decided to deal with. Personally trust for me would have gone out the window if my partner blew 50k on gambling but gambling in itself isn't necessarily a deal breaker for everyone (whereas infedility usually is). You use the word infidelity which is why I'm saying perhaps that's not the best word.

I know im being a complete bitch, but i think you need to eat a steak and take up kick boxing.

Slight drip feed here too. 50k should have been in your first post if you wanted more perspective. Gambling can mean anything from a few quid to all your life savings.

You say you haven’t been going on and on with her about this. Have you talked to her at all about how it made you feel though? Or did you just smile and nod , because you were so desperate to give it another go?

In order to move on , you have to acknowledge it and process it. Anonymous forums don’t really count.Keeping it hidden won’t help. Talk to your therapist, let it all out. Talk about it in CBT.

Is it possible to be able to discuss this with a close friend? Perhaps someone who knows you both? Someone who can give you a third eye on your relationship?

It seems to me that this snog which happened whilst you were split has become an insurmountable obstacle in your mind. But she did tell you when you asked. That's honesty and sincerity, which is a 180⁰ about turn when you consider the issues around money and gambling. Consider it as a new beginning in honesty and communication and use that to firstly get over this issue and then begin rebuilding your relationship, which is where you want to be. Start with a clean slate and an open mind.

Yes but that’s your issue to deal with not hers and if you don’t deal with it then you will destroy your marriage. You need to start by accepting that she hasn’t done anything wrong and she wasn’t disrespectful to you. If she snogged someone in front of you that would have disrespectful.

Yeah I absolutely get that but I think there are a couple of things here. Why did she want a break after the gambling thing came out? She needed time away rather than you guys working on it together. I am not an easy woman and after being married for a while DH’s way of dealing with the worst aspects of my personality is to lean in. No punishment, no anger, a hug and forgiveness or “we can fix this”. Granted I don’t have a gambling addiction.

Plus she sounds like she was hitting a real rock bottom here. She has a gambling problem, her marriage was in trouble, she sounds like she has trouble with impulsivity.

A break is a break, your hurt doesn’t change what a break is. You sound angry more than anything else. I’m not criticising you for that, I’d be furious myself. I would feel like DH just trashed out trust, damaged our marriage and then went out and snogged someone, inflicting further harm. But the thing is if you want your marriage to survive you can’t hold onto it.

The best way to get loyalty back is true forgiveness. If you cannot do this you will end up divorced. I’m not saying that to be mean, I’m telling you because a) snogging someone on a break is not cheating as much as it may feel like it b) she’s fucked up (the gambling) she needs forgiveness and help with her addiction (if she’s been hiding it then it was probably quite bad). If you cannot forgive her your resentment will come out and she won’t be able to live with someone who’s angry at her forever. You saw the break as her going away to have a good hard think about what she’s done and she probably saw it as time away from the pressure of everything coming out and possibly your anger (I’m not saying you are abusive here but it is very very difficult to live with someone who is angry with you).

It may feel unjust but people make mistakes. It’s up to you to decide whether you can live with it or not. Forgiveness is extremely powerful for people who are well intentioned and genuinely want things to work. If you love her and want your marriage to survive give her some relief, she full well knows how you feel and she’s carrying that around as well as a good dose of self loathing (probably).

Thank you. A lot to consider here. Thank you for taking the time. I have no dealt with any of it well at all, I know that. I do love her. I accept I've been weak and insecure at times. I'm embarrassed. It wasn't who I was 18 months ago. I think everything has overwhelmed me, caught me off guard. I have been angry, I've been frustrated, confused, the lot.

Be "real" man yeah?

It is difficult when someone you love has betrayed your trust or behaved in a way that you found hurtful. My Dh have definitely done things to hurt each other. But we ask for forgiveness and we give forgiveness and over the years theres been less and less need for it. You build more emotional intimacy with the ability to be honest.

I do think couple’s therapy is really important for you both, theres been a lot of hiding things over the years. Your wife seems like she was trying to have a clean slate by offering you up the truth. This would have been difficult for her as well because she knew it would cause you pain and possibly further damage your trust in her. I would not want to have that conversation with my DH at all. But what she was doing was saying “look you can trust me I’m telling you the truth now, even if I didn’t tell you the truth before, I’m trying”. Try to see it for what it is, it’s her trying to be better even if the truth was painful for you.

Look, no decades long relationship is without it's share of challenges, knocks and scars. Life's hard, relationships get tested, nobody is perfect. Any relationship of 20 years standing will have it's share of light and shade.

If you can't accept what she did, then you need to separate for both your sakes. All you're doing is tormenting yourself. Obsessing like this is masochistic and such a waste of energy. You can't change what happened so you HAVE to accept it, otherwise leave.

You've blown this kiss up into something monumental. It was just a drunken kiss. Make that mental shift - tell yourself "So what?" every time your brain goes there. She kissed a bloke when you were separated - so what? You need to trick your brain out of this mental block.

I've been with my husband for 40 years and believe me, your relationship will face worse tests than a drunken kiss if it lasts another 20 years. I'm not talking about abuse of any kind - that's obviously a deal breaker, but you know: misunderstandings, poor communication, unintended hurt. These things can really wound us, but they can be overcome, if the motivation is there. How motivated are you?

Op I am sorry you are in this situation. It’s clear you thought you were working on your long marriage and I can see why her kissing someone while you were struggling has made you questions things.

A drunken kiss often has many many steps leading up to the kiss. You don’t usually go from standing next to someone at a bar to snogging them. You talk, flirt, lean in, chat, giggle, repeat… every step closer is a boundary. Yes she was single but she had told the op that they were working on her marriage.

Op you mention defiance. That, combined with other things you mention is worth thinking about. Lack of impulse control, reckless behaviour, lying and sneaking are teenage behaviours. Defiance makes me think of teenagers rebelling against their parents.

Sorry to ask this op but is there any chance she left because she was interested in someone else? Often people leave to try out the grass on the other side but they want to leave the old relationship open in case it doesn’t work out. I’m not trying to cause you extra pain but depression, conflict and her wanting time out would often suggest another person shaped problem.

Op you can access EMDR to help with intrusive thoughts. The surviving infidelity website will have good articles to read and great posters, though it’s slower than here.

Love yourself like your life depends on it by Kamil Ravikant is worth a read if you are struggling in how you feel about yourself.

Are you sharing your thoughts with your wife? What does she say about it? How is she fixing / working on herself?

Your reactions to commenters are really problematic. What is wrong with you?!

I think you have two options here, and you need to decide which works best for you and then follow through and stick to it.

1. Let go of the anger you're feeling (process it first) and move forward in your relationship. Yes, she's done some awful things. Yes, you've not handled them well. But if you both want to salvage the relationship, she needs to be honest (which it sounds like she's trying to do) and you need to let it go. This option comes with a LOT of work to do, probably in counselling to help you both process the problems and come out the other side. You also need to accept the relationship and both of you might never be the same.
2. Separate. If you genuinely can't get over what's happened, you're just flogging yourself to death trying to get back what you once were, which won't happen.

Take some time to think through the options in front of you and what that would mean moving forwards. Then pick one and have an open, calm, conversation about what you want and need.

There was absolutely zero evidence of a other person being involved so I buried those thoughts fast, I don't want to dig them back up.

She has been much more open, affectionate and present in this last 6 months and talks about how hurt she felt during our short separation and how she doesn't want to go back there. She loves me. I feel it and she shows it

I am an angry controlling evil man child. That's the answer you wanted right?

We both want option 1 and have been working hard for 6 months to get there. I came here because I'm embarrassed I can't let that small thing go at the moment. Why is it so much bigger than the gambling? Why does it hurt like it just happened yesterday? I feel pathetic, honestly

It hurts because gambling is a problem/illness that can be worked on, but your wife kissing someone else is a choice. Doesn't matter the specifics around it, at the end of the day your wife chose to kiss another man.

I completely understand why it upsets you. But to move forward you either need to let it go, and forgive her, or decide it's a deal-breaker and set both of you free.

Women not coddling jealous men are toxic 😆 ok

I think you are jealous. Jealousy is invariably routed in insecurity. Do something that gives you a strong sense of worth, boost your self esteem, and refocuses your mind into the broader world, so that you are not so introspective, and focused on your relationship. Your head is in the bin. Find something that refocuses it. For me it's indoor rock climbing, facing your fears as a regular practice equips you to better deal with life. If you continue to wallow in your own woes, she'll probably dump you anyway eventually. It's deeply unattractive.